Tired of getting jerked around on AZ Wanted/For Sale

Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Aficionado
Gold Member
Silver Member
Long Rant Alert:

I have been involved in close to 1200 deals on eBay and there have been just two instances where things almost went sideways but ended up being saved. I am proud to say that on eBay I have 1165 positives with zero negatives. We're talking buying and selling cars, trucks, tractors, tv's, computers, pool cues, you name it.

Here on az, I have been involved in approx 15 deals where I was the buyer. Out of those, there has been 5 instances with problems. This is unacceptable.

Doesn't anyone give a crap to treat fellow forum members with appropriate honesty and respect? When I sell something, regardless of what venue it's in, I describe things as they are and I expect the same in return.

Normally, you would figure there would be a higher percentage of problems on eBay compared to az, right? I mean, think about it, on eBay, usually it's one encounter and 'I'm never gonna see you again'. Here, we interact with one another on a fairly regular basis.

I'm not going to bore you with all the details of the earliest 4 problems here but I will explain this latest one, the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. There is a slightly awkward aspect but at this point, to be honest, I really don't give a shizzle about that.

I missed getting a TS cue that I really wanted to be my next player (hard to find nice 59" TSs) due to my not acting quickly enough. It is the cue listed in the following thread.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=222351&highlight=kbooks3

Jeremy (kbooks3) sold it to Von Rhett. I immediately contacted Von and he agreed to sell me the cue. He had barely unpacked it and hit a few balls, reporting that the cue hits great.

I rec'd the cue the very next day. Mine and Vons deal was flawless. :thumbup:

Here's the awkward part:

I bought the cue from Von, but, I relied on the description provided by Jeremy in his az 'for sale' ad that specified all points are even, everything is straight, and that there were certain minor dings which he detailed.

His description turned out to be inaccurate.

The cue has a lot more dings than were described which does not matter to me as I figured to get the entire cue freshened up anyway.

The problem for me is that one shaft has a wobble despite being listed as straight. And one ebony point is close to 1/2" shorter than the other three. Nearly 1/2 inch short is a lot to be off. Also, from the picture I provided below, you can see the very ends of the veneer points aren't quite the same length, either, though much closer than 1/2".

I pm'd Von about this and we are fine. He never gave the cue a close inspection as I was buying it from him pretty much as it arrived at his house. He was a complete gentleman.

I then wrote to Jeremy, prefacing my comments with the fact that, of course, I'm not looking for anything from him other than to maybe get an explanation of why the cue was described inaccurately.

I pm'd him a couple of days ago about this and despite his having been on az a number of times since, he has not responded to me. And, I suppose, really, he doesn't owe me any explanation since I didn't buy the cue from him.

But I'm not going to let that stand in the way of my getting this off my chest.

We need to be able to rely on fellow az'ers to do the right thing when dealing with one another. We're not talking about $50 cues here though that shouldn't matter either.

If you say all points are even and one is off by 1/2" then you either didn't look at it or you're a liar.

If you say everything is straight and one shaft has a wobble, then you either didn't roll it or you're a liar.

If you look at the for sale thread pics of the points you'll see the 2 points that are shot are the two that are dead even. Maybe this was just a coincidence.

Anyone choosing to do biz on az, given my personal experiences, I highly recommend that you proceed with great caution.

BTW, the cue hits beautifully and, most likely, it will become my main player. The short point won't matter, the wobbly shaft may.

I know there are much bigger problems in the world but wouldn't it be nice to have accurate, honest info on which to base our buying decisions?

Best,
Brian kc
 

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KC,
When someone says the points are even they are describing the outter most veneer. If the prongs of the points are uneven, it's never mentioned. From your pic it looks like the prongs (interior) wood is off. Trust me I have put up over 1000 descriptions and this is always the case.


JV
 
classiccues said:
KC,
When someone says the points are even they are describing the outter most veneer. If the prongs of the points are uneven, it's never mentioned. From your pic it looks like the prongs (interior) wood is off. Trust me I have put up over 1000 descriptions and this is always the case.


JV
Click to expand...

That is what happens when you offset the cue to even up the outermost points. Not only will the inside points move, but more than likely there is a difference in the width of the points as well.

I , like JV , believe Jeremy's description to be accurate with respect to the points..
 
Last edited:
classiccues said:
KC,
When someone says the points are even they are describing the outter most veneer. If the prongs of the points are uneven, it's never mentioned. From your pic it looks like the prongs (interior) wood is off. Trust me I have put up over 1000 descriptions and this is always the case.


JV
Click to expand...

Hi JV;

I have a lot of respect for you and your knowledge.

The veneer points aren't all even either, though, much closer than 1/2".

As I mentioned in the rant, the points really were't the big deal to me as I was looking for this to be my player. However, perfectly executed vs non perfect points could affect value.

The shaft was disappointing.

I think that accuracy in describing what were selling is of paramount importance. Anything less is unacceptable.

Best,
Brian kc
 
What do you expect from a bunch of pool room bums who're looking only to stick someone up?
Man, this isn't a sunday school in here...it's POOL and pool never changes.
Better stick with ebay unless you want to keep getting robbed.
 
I offer money back guarentee on everything I sell.

I just did a deal on a cue and the guy was unhappy. I said no problem, send back the cue and I will send his cue and check back to him. I got no positive feedback, but thats okay, but I think I deserved it.

Anyone can have positive feedback when there isnt a problem. He wasnt happy, and IMO, he being nit picky about something that didnt matter. But the deal was and always is when you deal with me is you can return if not happy.

I returned his cue and check and paid for shipping.

What else could I do to make that more fair? I wasnt in any deal with anyone with this thread.

Just saying how I roll.

Ken
 
As a cue maker there is a real good chance that when Jeremy rolled the cue it was straight and after a few weeks it may straighten as it adjust to the new climate. For instance I ordered 10 shaft blanks from AZ'er jazznpool 2 months ago and spun each one on the lathe the day they arrived and pm'ed him that they were all crooked and his reply was that they were still oversize and let them settle for a few weeks. I started turning them this week and the five that I made a small cut on were straight and solid this time as soon as I put them on the lathe so give the shaft a few weeks and let us know, also I have had several deals with Jeremy and have never had a single worry or heard of anyone else having a problem.--Leonard
 
xdy77 said:
What do you expect from a bunch of pool room bums who're looking only to stick someone up?
Man, this isn't a sunday school in here...it's POOL and pool never changes.
Better stick with ebay unless you want to keep getting robbed.
Click to expand...

I disagree with the Ebay part of this comment
Unless the Ebay seller is an AZ member I won't consider buying a cue on Ebay.
Ebay has been a dumping ground for used cues with problems.
I also disagree with the comment that we are a bunch of pool hall bums.
The pool hall has nothing to do with it.
We would be bums in any venue.
 
I guess my question would be how do you line up the outside veneer, when the 2nd veneer is so horribly off ?

Im with ya man... that cue has one mighty odd point. :confused:
 
When I looked at your pic, I was thinking "those points are even, what the hell is he talking about." It took me a few seconds to even see the inner points.

I recently sold a cue that I apparently didn't look over very well. The buyer told me there was a noticeable mark on the cue when he received it. I told him I looked at and didn't notice the ding (which I did), but I would absolutely take the cue back and return his money. In my opinion, it's not worth getting into an argument over it. I will return his money and try to sell it again.

I have had some recent changes in life and I am coming to realize that it is just a cue and just money. I would rather be happy and not deal with bs.
 
hangemhigh said:
That is what happens when you offset the cue to even up the outermost points. Not only will the inside points move, but more than likely there is a difference in the width of the points as well.

I , like JV , believe Jeremy's description to be accurate with respect to the points..
Click to expand...

I agree. On traditional spliced points, you have to cut some slack for point differences - particularly the inner prongs. On the older cues, I don't even really look to see if they're aligned - that's just asking for disappointment.

Chris
 
To me, there's no excuse for describing a warped shaft as straight. Anybody that sells a cue should have rolled the shafts and butt and know what he's talking about when he describes it, or be prepared to give a refund. This happened to me on AZB once, too, on a cue that came from Singapore. I let the seller know that I was very unhappy and never heard back from him. I did get another shaft made that was far better than the original. This also happened to me once on ebay, too. I let the seller know and we split the cost of a new shaft, which I was ok with. I've had a lot of transactions here, you just expect a higher grade of transaction on AZB.
 
Yea, I had a deal recently with a scrugss SP that I sold. I noted in the thread that the cue needed refinished, and that the nose of the butt would lift 1mm when the cue was rolled.

The buyer snapped it up within minutes of it hitting the forum. He called me later that night, and when I menitioned the roll in the cue he said "It has a roll?". Obviously he got the cue and made it out to be the worst thing ever, and Obviously I took the cue back and refunded him.

Thing that got me though was it took longer than I expected to get the cue back, so I started looking at the buyer's recent threads, and he stated in one of them that he was in "test drive" mode.

I didn't rep the guy either way and he didn't rep me either, but it is these little gray area issues that make a forum like this tough.

Escrow anything over 500$ imo.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Hi JV;

I have a lot of respect for you and your knowledge.

The veneer points aren't all even either, though, much closer than 1/2".

As I mentioned in the rant, the points really were't the big deal to me as I was looking for this to be my player. However, perfectly executed vs non perfect points could affect value.

The shaft was disappointing.

I think that accuracy in describing what were selling is of paramount importance. Anything less is unacceptable.

Best,
Brian kc
Click to expand...

Brian,
In traditional point cues, even Szamboti missed a little here and there on the outter veneers. I guess it's all what you're expecting. On these cues I would rather expect less and be overjoyed when I get even ones.

The shaft, well no excuse if you roll it on the table. The dings, well when you sell a cue the dings ain't that big a deal... :) Only when you are buying it.. :)

I'll quit when someone claims the joints isn't polished to 8 rms... :p

JV
 
First thing i do when i want to buy a cue is call the person selling it.
When your actually talking you learn all you need to know. Anything else is unacceptable.
I'm surprised to see that the points & veneers are off on a Scruggs.
That cue should of not left his shop.
 
Aren't points and veneers two different things?? I see some difference with the ebony points but the veneers look pretty close.
Just curious to the correct terminology of the issue here...
 
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