Toby Sweet

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ah, the plot thickens....never heard that one.:confused:

On the other hand, I learned a lot of 3-cushion shots from an Armenian
in Detroit......
.....his name was Frenchy!

And Russ Maddox introduced me to a man named Baldy....
....he claimed his real name was Curly.


I love the pool world....:)

I could write a book just about Russ Maddox "deals" I have been told about.
If half of them are true he was an extraordinary guy.
 

G&M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
He was from Spring Valley or thereabouts- The other side of the Hudson.

There was a White Plains Charlie. He didnt possess one good quality that i ever saw and i saw him a lot. He had a $250/month room-a $650 pension and gave up the room, lived in shelters, street etc so he could blow the entire $650 on the first of every month at Yonkers Raceway.


Toby's poolroom, named Holli's (after his daughter), was in Nanuet, NY (right next to Spring Valley). He owned it with Vinnie Cass, another great guy and a strong player in his own right. It was a fantastic room to hang around ... lots of characters ... and the first room where I ever struck a ball.

In the 70s, Toby and Vinnie bought the place. Seeing Toby play was -- and is -- something special. The Accu-Stats match between Toby and Steve Mizerak gives a sense of how Toby plays, but I know that Ken and many others on this forum have seen Toby play at an unreal level, flawlessly. He was able to get tremendous action on the cue ball when he needed to. Often, he'd move the cue ball just enough to get here or there ... and with a delicate, precise touch, but if he needed to load it up, power the cue ball, and make it do something extraordinary, he could do that too. His stroke was such that, on most shots, the cue ball didn't seem to move very fast, but it kept going slowly, slowly, until it floated over to exactly the right place. Push-out was his game because it favored knowledge and judgment. He'd often say that with the time and effort he put into pool, he could've gone to med school and become a doctor.

Met Ken at Holli's back when we were both young! Toby motivated a lot of people to play. We all looked up to him, and still do. Beyond his pool ability, he has a great sense of humor and a lot of insight into life, people, and human nature. Toby is unique. He established his fashion sense in the late 60s and hasn't seen fit to change it. He was also a rarity because he was a pool player who knew how to manage his money. To the rest of the world, I may have been another teenage nobody, but when I walked into Holli's, Toby would say "Hey!" and call me by name. (Most other people, just got the "Hey!" Names were not Toby's strong point.)

Toby was always wise in the ways of the world. He didn't make bad games. If he knew he was supposed to win, he'd play on a tighter table so nothing was left to chance. For the same reason, he preferred to play 10 head rather than a race to 10. He was odds on to win, so the less luck the better.

Besides pool and his family, Toby enjoys painting and music. He's got lots of interests.

Thanks for this thread. George Fels has mentioned Toby in Billiards Digest several times, but not everyone seems to be as aware of Toby and how much respect he got from the top players.

Larry Moy

P.S. -- I knew White Plains Charlie too -- from Post Billiards, underneath the Post bowling alley in White Plains, and, after that, from Hi-Pockets, George Hadges' room. Once, at George's place, after missing, I complained that it was ridiculous that I could miss such an easy shot after playing pool more than 15 years. Charlie, who was pretty elderly at the time, was at the next table. He said -- "You know when you start to play really good? ... after 25 years!"
 

HighEndCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Toby's poolroom, named Holli's (after his daughter), was in Nanuet, NY (right next to Spring Valley). He owned it with Vinnie Cass, another great guy and a strong player in his own right. It was a fantastic room to hang around ... lots of characters ... and the first room where I ever struck a ball.

In the 70s, Toby and Vinnie bought the place. Seeing Toby play was -- and is -- something special. The Accu-Stats match between Toby and Steve Mizerak gives a sense of how Toby plays, but I know that Ken and many others on this forum have seen Toby play at an unreal level, flawlessly. He was able to get tremendous action on the cue ball when he needed to. Often, he'd move the cue ball just enough to get here or there ... and with a delicate, precise touch, but if he needed to load it up, power the cue ball, and make it do something extraordinary, he could do that too. His stroke was such that, on most shots, the cue ball didn't seem to move very fast, but it kept going slowly, slowly, until it floated over to exactly the right place. Push-out was his game because it favored knowledge and judgment. He'd often say that with the time and effort he put into pool, he could've gone to med school and become a doctor.

Met Ken at Holli's back when we were both young! Toby motivated a lot of people to play. We all looked up to him, and still do. Beyond his pool ability, he has a great sense of humor and a lot of insight into life, people, and human nature. Toby is unique. He established his fashion sense in the late 60s and hasn't seen fit to change it. He was also a rarity because he was a pool player who knew how to manage his money. To the rest of the world, I may have been another teenage nobody, but when I walked into Holli's, Toby would say "Hey!" and call me by name. (Most other people, just got the "Hey!" Names were not Toby's strong point.)

Toby was always wise in the ways of the world. He didn't make bad games. If he knew he was supposed to win, he'd play on a tighter table so nothing was left to chance. For the same reason, he preferred to play 10 head rather than a race to 10. He was odds on to win, so the less luck the better.

Besides pool and his family, Toby enjoys painting and music. He's got lots of interests.

Thanks for this thread. George Fels has mentioned Toby in Billiards Digest several times, but not everyone seems to be as aware of Toby and how much respect he got from the top players.

Larry Moy

P.S. -- I knew White Plains Charlie too -- from Post Billiards, underneath the Post bowling alley in White Plains, and, after that, from Hi-Pockets, George Hadges' room. Once, at George's place, after missing, I complained that it was ridiculous that I could miss such an easy shot after playing pool more than 15 years. Charlie, who was pretty elderly at the time, was at the next table. He said -- "You know when you start to play really good? ... after 25 years!"
Hey Larry,
I hope all is well. Always a pleasure hearing from you.
It was fun spending most of my youth at Holli's. Thanks for taking the time describing perfectly days of old. Toby left NY last week, but its always great having him around for the summer.
WP Charlie, Post Bowl, George, Hi Pockets, many memories. Good and Bad :)

Stop down to DJ's and say hello..
Best,
Ken
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I could write a book just about Russ Maddox "deals" I have been told about.
If half of them are true he was an extraordinary guy.


Russ was the "promoter" of all things pool in Southwestern Ohio for decades. He put together some pretty good money matches for George Rood against some well known players. I NEVER saw George lose to any of them either! Straight Pool or 9-Ball. He did lose an exhibition match to Eddie Taylor though. Money matches - NEVER. George refused to play Fats and dump the match, even if he was getting paid. Fats had no chance against him on the square! Unless they played One Pocket, which George did not play.

Russ had other talents as well, especially with a deck of cards in his hands. I got to find out first hand, up close and personal. :eek:
He liked me though, and kept me out of some other traps. God bless him for that.
 
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Chrippa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I really like this kind of thread, fun to read about and I wish more vids out there of the "old school players" to watch . Well have to buy some from Accustats I presume:smile:.

Some of them have some funny looking strokes etc but just look at them going throw the cue - perfect, the more I learn the more subtle things I see. The knowledge they have is enormous.

Well anyway, here´s a story about Toby that I was told by a very good Swedish player a couple of years back.

It was in the late 80´s I believe and he was at his peak, just won European Championship and was competing in US at the time, full of confidence and played really strong.
He was matched up against Toby in a money game ( I have no clue if he got weight etc) and they played for 2 days. They ended the game a tie because they couldn´t get anywhere and he told me it was amazing to see him play, everything looked so simple and every rack took the "same time" to run for him, it was so simple.
He said - "it took 8 h of play until I got my first a ball in hand".

regards

Chrippa
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Toby's poolroom, named Holli's (after his daughter), was in Nanuet, NY (right next to Spring Valley). He owned it with Vinnie Cass, another great guy and a strong player in his own right. It was a fantastic room to hang around ... lots of characters ... and the first room where I ever struck a ball.

In the 70s, Toby and Vinnie bought the place. Seeing Toby play was -- and is -- something special. The Accu-Stats match between Toby and Steve Mizerak gives a sense of how Toby plays, but I know that Ken and many others on this forum have seen Toby play at an unreal level, flawlessly. He was able to get tremendous action on the cue ball when he needed to. Often, he'd move the cue ball just enough to get here or there ... and with a delicate, precise touch, but if he needed to load it up, power the cue ball, and make it do something extraordinary, he could do that too. His stroke was such that, on most shots, the cue ball didn't seem to move very fast, but it kept going slowly, slowly, until it floated over to exactly the right place. Push-out was his game because it favored knowledge and judgment. He'd often say that with the time and effort he put into pool, he could've gone to med school and become a doctor.

Met Ken at Holli's back when we were both young! Toby motivated a lot of people to play. We all looked up to him, and still do. Beyond his pool ability, he has a great sense of humor and a lot of insight into life, people, and human nature. Toby is unique. He established his fashion sense in the late 60s and hasn't seen fit to change it. He was also a rarity because he was a pool player who knew how to manage his money. To the rest of the world, I may have been another teenage nobody, but when I walked into Holli's, Toby would say "Hey!" and call me by name. (Most other people, just got the "Hey!" Names were not Toby's strong point.)

Toby was always wise in the ways of the world. He didn't make bad games. If he knew he was supposed to win, he'd play on a tighter table so nothing was left to chance. For the same reason, he preferred to play 10 head rather than a race to 10. He was odds on to win, so the less luck the better.

Besides pool and his family, Toby enjoys painting and music. He's got lots of interests.

Thanks for this thread. George Fels has mentioned Toby in Billiards Digest several times, but not everyone seems to be as aware of Toby and how much respect he got from the top players.

Larry Moy

P.S. -- I knew White Plains Charlie too -- from Post Billiards, underneath the Post bowling alley in White Plains, and, after that, from Hi-Pockets, George Hadges' room. Once, at George's place, after missing, I complained that it was ridiculous that I could miss such an easy shot after playing pool more than 15 years. Charlie, who was pretty elderly at the time, was at the next table. He said -- "You know when you start to play really good? ... after 25 years!"
\
Hey Larry

When Hi Pockets first opened, all the champions from the Tri State area were in there. You know the usual gathering when a new nice pool room opens. This was 1997 give or take one year . An over the hill Toby pops in complete with bell bottoms and a female 25 yrs his Jr. It may have even been his daughter, maybe not.

Anyway Toby is given the Superstar treatment and all eyes are on him. Someone asks him if he is gonna play and Toby says something along the lines that he really hasn't been playing (nuff said) but he will play a set or 2 if someone wants to play. Again the room is full of killers but no one wants to step up.

Finally Danny Barouty says with not much confidence "Hell I'll play" He was probably the 5th best in the room at rotation that night. I havent known Danny to do much gambling since so i think maybe he just wanted to get in there with a legend. It was $250/set

Anyway Danny gets drilled 2 sets and Toby soon leaves the poolroom, his legend status intact..

davey gravy
 
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macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I really like this kind of thread, fun to read about and I wish more vids out there of the "old school players" to watch . Well have to buy some from Accustats I presume:smile:.

Some of them have some funny looking strokes etc but just look at them going throw the cue - perfect, the more I learn the more subtle things I see. The knowledge they have is enormous.

Well anyway, here´s a story about Toby that I was told by a very good Swedish player a couple of years back.

It was in the late 80´s I believe and he was at his peak, just won European Championship and was competing in US at the time, full of confidence and played really strong.
He was matched up against Toby in a money game ( I have no clue if he got weight etc) and they played for 2 days. They ended the game a tie because they couldn´t get anywhere and he told me it was amazing to see him play, everything looked so simple and every rack took the "same time" to run for him, it was so simple.
He said - "it took 8 h of play until I got my first a ball in hand".

regards

Chrippa

Was that Swedish player named Mike?
 

HighEndCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
\
Hey Larry

When Hi Pockets first opened, all the champions from the Tri State were in there. You know the usual gathering when a new nice pool room opens. This was 1997 give or take one year . An over the hill Toby pops in complete with bell bottoms and a female 25 yrs his Jr. It may have even been his daughter, maybe not.

Anyway Toby is given the Superstar treatment and all eyes are on him. Someone asks him if he is gonna play and Toby says something along the lines that he really hasn't been playing (nuff said) but he will play a set or 2 if someone wants to play. Again the room is full of killers but no one wants to step up.

Finally Danny Barouty says with not much confidence "Hell I'll play" He was probably the 5th best in the room at rotation that night. I havent known Danny to do much gambling since so i think maybe he just wanted to get in there with a legend. It was $250/set

Anyway Danny gets drilled 2 sets and Toby soon leaves the poolroom, his legend status intact..

davey gravy
Hey Davey,
I was there that night as well. Also, Toby hadn't been playing at all before that.
Best,
ken
 

Chrippa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Was that Swedish player named Mike?

Yes, Mikael Hallgren. Still a good player but haven´t played for about a year or close.
I hope he will get back because he´s very knowledgable and have a great game to show, he was just caught up with everything and needed some time away from everything I guess. He didn´t compete much the last years though but when he played "for fun" he still has a great game to show.

Do you know him?

Chrippa
 

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, Mikael Hallgren. Still a good player but haven´t played for about a year or close.
I hope he will get back because he´s very knowledgable and have a great game to show, he was just caught up with everything and needed some time away from everything I guess. He didn´t compete much the last years though but when he played "for fun" he still has a great game to show.

Do you know him?

Chrippa

He was a very good player. I played his some straight pool and he played real good. He also was very good at jumping. This was before everyone even knew what a jump cue was. I saw him play Miz and Miz played a safe on him. Before sitting down Miz went over and got Mikes jump cue and handed it to him. Everybody laughed. Sure enough Mike jumped the ball and ran out. If you ask him about this I am sure he will remember. They were playing in what was called "The Pit". He seemed to be very pleased that a player like Steve Mizerak had such respect for him.
 

Chrippa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Was that Swedish player named Mike?

He was a very good player. I played his some straight pool and he played real good. He also was very good at jumping. This was before everyone even knew what a jump cue was. I saw him play Miz and Miz played a safe on him. Before sitting down Miz went over and got Mikes jump cue and handed it to him. Everybody laughed. Sure enough Mike jumped the ball and ran out. If you ask him about this I am sure he will remember. They were playing in what was called "The Pit". He seemed to be very pleased that a player like Steve Mizerak had such respect for him.

he still is:). I heard it:). I remember when I started 96 or close I attended the weekly tournaments on our hall, Mondays 9 ball and Tuesdays 5 & 9 and he and 3 other very strong players got a weekly check every time:), 5&9 races was to 21 and theese guys had ./. 24 and the tourneys were packed with people but they just kept running balls like water:). The 3 others never went to US to compete but one is 2or 3 time European champ, one was the junior world champ (run 11 out in a competion and 13 in a ring game) and the "weakest" was a several Swedish champion in Snooker, very good money player and probably the best all around player of them all. Still plays a bit but mostly 3 cushion, reminds me. He told me the other day that he beat Le bron in a cash game - not that shabby:). Funny thing is that he didn´t even know who he was at the time:).

C

Btw - I actually think he still has/uses that Huebler break cue as a jump cue still, when jumping with full cue that is. He was sponsored by Paul for a long time and still has a beautiful Huebler. Plays with a Prather now though.
 
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G&M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey Larry,
I hope all is well. Always a pleasure hearing from you.
It was fun spending most of my youth at Holli's. Thanks for taking the time describing perfectly days of old. Toby left NY last week, but its always great having him around for the summer.
WP Charlie, Post Bowl, George, Hi Pockets, many memories. Good and Bad :)

Stop down to DJ's and say hello..
Best,
Ken

Ken,

Always great to hear from you as well. Lots of people spent most of their youth in poolrooms, but not many of them have done as much with it as you have, in terms of playing ability and otherwise. That's something you and Toby have in common. Will give you a call soon if that's alright.

Take care,
Larry
 

richiebalto

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cigar Tom played Toby to a draw for 10 dollars a game. Toby said Tom was tough to beat. He played in Gentlemans Cue for about 2 weeks, his cue ball had a string on it. perfect position player and maybe the best push out player in his time. A great money player. Gave up big spots and overcame it. Had Weenie Beenie stuck 4000 and started to spot him the 8 ball and lost it all back. told me he should have won all the money but just started playing bad. A great Guy and easy to talk to. He traveled in a big Sleeper Truck. Smart as they come. He wouldn't play one pocket .

Thanks for that story Ed, boy that Cigar sure could play with the best of them!

Toby= broke even
Strickland= broke even, after playing for 20 hours.
Rempe= broke even, after Tom was stuck over 10 games.

Tom did lose to Andam and Archer, but he was well into his 50s early 60s.

Jimmy Fusco= Tom beat him more then once, Jimmy only beat Tom when they played back pocket 9 ball.
Pete Fusco= Tom beat him every time.

Joe Frady=Tom beat.
Don Polo = Tom beat
Crazy Jerry= Tom beat

The late great Bobby Legg and Tom had a war going on for a good 10 years, battleing back in forth, i would say either one is up more then a set in that whole battle.

Bobby Legg was a special player also!
 
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NolesFan83

Wannabe pool player
Silver Member
I head that story of Toby giving Buddy the 8 by the owner of Capone's earlier this year. I thought it was a joke but he told the story with such conviction that I had to believe him afterwards. I also have a friend who lives in south florida and ran into toby at a pool room, can't remember which one. He said toby asked his buddy if he could hit with his predator. After a few shots of shooting some ridiculous shot and getting perfect shape he handed the cue back to the kid and said" man I just don't have enough time left to learn how to shoot with one of those) leaving my friend and his buddy in shock. I've heard some stories about toby from the older guys who ran around south florida, its just amazing. One if these days I'll make it down there and actually meet him.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
I head that story of Toby giving Buddy the 8 by the owner of Capone's earlier this year. I thought it was a joke but he told the story with such conviction that I had to believe him afterwards. I also have a friend who lives in south florida and ran into toby at a pool room, can't remember which one. He said toby asked his buddy if he could hit with his predator. After a few shots of shooting some ridiculous shot and getting perfect shape he handed the cue back to the kid and said" man I just don't have enough time left to learn how to shoot with one of those) leaving my friend and his buddy in shock. I've heard some stories about toby from the older guys who ran around south florida, its just amazing. One if these days I'll make it down there and actually meet him.

You know, sometimes an incomplete story confuses the situation.

I would like to know how old Buddy Hall was when he got the 8.....
...'cause in Buddy's prime, the world NEEDED the 8.

I remember a kid in our area became world class at snooker at 18....
....one of the older players was asked how he would've made out with
the kid when he was in his prime...he said "Ten years ago, I could've
given him 40 points."
Everybody disagreed......
He said "Well, ten years ago, this kid was only eight years old....
...and I probably could have given him more."
:smile:
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
You know, sometimes an incomplete story confuses the situation.

I would like to know how old Buddy Hall was when he got the 8.....
...'cause in Buddy's prime, the world NEEDED the 8.

I remember a kid in our area became world class at snooker at 18....
....one of the older players was asked how he would've made out with
the kid when he was in his prime...he said "Ten years ago, I could've
given him 40 points."
Everybody disagreed......
He said "Well, ten years ago, this kid was only eight years old....
...and I probably could have given him more."
:smile:

Of course this happened well before Buddy's prime, probably around 1968 or '69 in Johnston City. Buddy was in his early 20's and Toby may have been a little older. Toby did play better 9-Ball than Buddy then. A few years later Buddy may have offered Toby the eight. I don't know if they ever played again. Toby was smart that way.
 

bobbycotton

PoolHall Junkie
Silver Member
I played Don Watson in Alabama in 1975, I ran the first 5 racks, it took me 15 minutes, Don ran the next 5 racks,took 45 minutes. I pulled up lol ! He was a great player and I learned so much playing him and watching him. I really miss all the great old timers that have passed away, too many to mention.
 

richiebalto

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I played Don Watson in Alabama in 1975, I ran the first 5 racks, it took me 15 minutes, Don ran the next 5 racks,took 45 minutes. I pulled up lol ! He was a great player and I learned so much playing him and watching him. I really miss all the great old timers that have passed away, too many to mention.

Time has fllew bye, Its sad and true, a lot of great player are gone, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN!

As in your reply.
 

bstroud

Deceased
I played Toby even 9 ball at Park Row Billiards in Manhattan for 50.00 a game in the mid 60's. I didn't play much push out but Toby sure did. He won every push out that came up.

He had me 8 games loser and I finally got tired of losing all the push outs so I pushed out for an end rail bank. Toby said shoot so I did, made it and ran out. I did the exact same thing the next two games.

Toby quit me 5 games winner and said "play you some more at 7-11". It was his home court at the time so I said no.

Toby was the best 9 ball player I had seen up to that time and played the best push out I have ever seen.

I played the Miz even 9 ball for 350. a game a few weeks later to a tie so I was playing well but still did not beat Toby at that time.

A really great player.

Bill S.
 
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