Todays Pros....

[Cdryden]

I think everyone agrees that the overall skill level of professional pool as a whole has increased in the modern era. But, the best players of the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s would be world beaters in any era.

One of the most ridiculous displays of power and skill I ever saw was Earl on the 10 footer against SVB (TAR Match). That table was *hard* and Earl made it look like child's play, in a way I don't think any other player could do. And that's just 2 or 3 years ago, not even in his prime.

Yeah, when the Earl of ole shows up watch out. As long as he can keep his demons at bay I would pit him against anyone in any era. Maybe he wins and maybe he looses but he would always be a threat. When he played the Mezz in Tahoe in the 80's he was a GOD.

 

[JAM]

Who has won more might be a better measure than who has more. Maybe one is just better at keeping a hold of it.

Keith was suspended from school as a teen for having too much money. Over fourteen thousand is how the story goes, mostly from the track IIRC.

I don't know which has won more money at the table, but I would not be a bit surprised if it was Keith. He always did like to bet high, he ain't got no dog in 'em.

A wise old man once said this: It is not the size of the dog in the fight; it is the size of the fight in the dog. :grin-square:

Keith had a lot of fight in him, still does. As he says, he's still got a little lightning left in the jug. :wink:

Here's a couple oldies that came out on top, first and second place, in a tough field at a Joss event at Drexeline Billiards, which included Jose Parica, Karen Corr, Shawn Wilkie, Dennis Hatch, Robb Saez, Jalapena, Santos, and a few others whose names escape me.

 

[Cdryden]

Getting this thread back on track, I think bdorman's post makes a good point about the nature of our society. I think we have been trying for a while now, to remove the JOY out of competition. Probably not on purpose, but it's been an indirect result of pushing our kids harder and harder. As a parent, I'm realizing how all of the sports (or academic pursuits) that our kids compete in, they are so scheduled and orchestrated. And if you want your child to actually be competitive at something later in life, they have to start really young and put in A LOT OF HOURS! There's just not as much time for spontaneity.

When is the last time you drove by a field of kids playing a game of baseball on their own? I haven't seen this since I was a kid. This isn't to say that we in the U.S. aren't generating great baseball players, it's just that now instead of just having fun and playing with their friends on their own they have to go to clinics, and indoor hitting facilities, baseball camps, and this sort of thing.

Now maybe pool in the U.S. hasn't gotten to this point, but it does sound like it's more like that internationally. While maybe I can't put my finger on it exactly, I do think this is part of what’s going on.

Good point, it's strange that in a age of instant information that we have in a sense became more antisocial. I remember when I was a teen we would get a keg of beer, BBQ some steak and ribs, have a stereo going while throwing horseshoes or whatever and we all just hung out and had fun. I hardly see this anymore. The kids now are huffing keyboard duster in their bedroom and playing online gaming for hours on end.

I'm not ragging on them, it's just different then it used to be. We had more actual social interaction and they have more indirect social interaction. I guess I'm just getting old! Oh well, see you guys down at the bar for a beer and a game of pool. :wink:

 

[Cdryden]

A wise old man once said this: It is not the size of the dog in the fight; it is the size of the fight in the dog. :grin-square:

Keith had a lot of fight in him, still does. As he says, he's still got a little lightning left in the jug. :wink:

Here's a couple oldies that came out on top, first and second place, in a tough field at a Joss event at Drexeline Billiards, which included Jose Parica, Karen Corr, Shawn Wilkie, Dennis Hatch, Robb Saez, Jalapena, Santos, and a few others whose names escape me.

Wow, how could they have possibly competed?

Whats up with the look on Keith's face? He looks so serious, and maybe a little constipated! J/K!:thumbup:

 

[JAM]

Good point, it's strange that in a age of instant information that we have in a sense became more antisocial. I remember when I was a teen we would get a keg of beer, BBQ some steak and ribs, have a stereo going while throwing horseshoes or whatever and we all just hung out and had fun. I hardly see this anymore. The kids now are huffing keyboard duster in their bedroom and playing online gaming for hours on end.

I'm not ragging on them, it's just different then it used to be. We had more actual social interaction and they have more indirect social interaction. I guess I'm just getting old! Oh well, see you guys down at the bar for a beer and a game of pool. :wink:

When I was a young child, we had many children in the neighborhood riding bicycles and playing hopskotch, jumprope, dodge ball, you name it. I don't see any children out my windows anymore. None. It's like the children of yesterday are no more. This is why there is an obesity problem today with American youth. They sit in front of a monitor or TV screen and don't move.

At least pool does get you moving around the table, and it's a great avenue for social interactions; communication with strangers in a game of pool at a local bar, as an example.

 

[JAM]

Wow, how could they have possibly competed?

Whats up with the look on Keith's face? He looks so serious, and maybe a little constipated! J/K!:thumbup:

He was ready to get in action after the tournament. He was pissed off that I wanted to take his picture with the trophy. When I first saw that trophy in Drexeline Billiards, I wanted it badly. I love that trophy, and he won it.

Here's my thread on the event: Keith and Allen in Finals

Did I tell you how much I love this trophy? :grin-square:

 

[Scott Lee]

Amen to that JAM...and I've said if before...if Keith ever did anything to mess up what he has with you, he'd be the moron of the century! Fortunately, I believe he feels the same way! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Fortunately for Keith, he met me. I'm strong.

 

[Scott Lee]

So true, Chris! Once you reach that pinnacle that Keith, and MANY of the older guys reached, you don't just "forget" how to play at that level. Many times players in their 60's and 70's have run over some young guns. Like I believe Earl still has "it", the same goes for Keith! He just has to have the desire to show it...and if he chooses not to, for whatever reason, it still doesn't mean he can't bring it! One thing is certain...KM will always draw a crowd anywhere pool is being played! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

EDIT: I also wanted to reiterate that with this level of player you never know. Any of them could dominate the other on any given day. If you think Keith is all washed up I think you are sadly mistaken. He may not be placing in every event but a player like that is ALWAYS a threat.

 

[CJ Wiley]

in their prime 20 years ago.......this speaks volumes.

Exactly, Ali would kill Manny! Lol

TheKman, I think your tone does come off a little offensive and I can understand how it rubs people the wrong way. I didn't care for it myself, but the only thing that really bugged me is you took this post in a direction other than it was intended for. I was just comparing how I liked the antics of the players of years past and I wished today's players were more colorful.
I never wanted this to be about who could give who the 7, lol. Oh well you are entitled to your opinion.

EDIT: I also wanted to reiterate that with this level of player you never know. Any of them could dominate the other on any given day. If you think Keith is all washed up I think you are sadly mistaken. He may not be placing in every event but a player like that is ALWAYS a threat.

One thing that must be considered is Efren, Archer, Strickland, Bustemante and a host of others (Walden last weekend) are still winning today, and were in their prime 20 years ago.......this speaks volumes.

 

[ShootingArts]

Nascar

After over fifty years of trying to get the drivers to act like emotionless robots NASCAR has done a one-eighty. Sounds like they want a return to the days of Curtis Turner, Jr Johnson behind a wheel, Fireball Roberts, and Lee Petty. They have sanitized the drivers and polished the cars handling until they have almost killed the sport. Now they have introduced a crappier chassis, the one thing the drivers can't comment on, and are encouraging the drivers to push and shove on the track and off. They are begging for "throwback racing" like when racers had color. If a multi billion dollar a year sport needs color, just maybe a struggling sport does too!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...FALLOUT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

As to the usual thing about who is best, on a given night any top player from any era could prevail. If yesterday's champs could be fast forwarded to today and still be in their prime they might have to adjust to the new equipment but it wouldn't be long until they were in the same basic place in the pecking order. Today's hothouse players would have a far harder struggle adapting to conditions of fifty or a hundred years ago but eventually they too would be in the same basic place in the pecking order they are now.

This might be my favorite commentary on the old guys vs the new in any sport:


from Cobb (1994)

Cobb (1994)
Louis Prima: With all the great players playing ball right now, how well do you think you would do against today's pitchers?
Ty Cobb: Well, I figure against today's pitchers I'd only probably hit about .290
Louis Prima: .290? Well that's amazing, because you batted over .400 a... a whole bunch of times. Now tell us all, we'd all like to know, why do you think you'd only hit .290?
Ty Cobb: Well, I'm 72 ****ing years old you ignorant son of a *****.

 

[JolietJames]

I disagree with the OP. Alex is a character for sure and has more gamble than any pro out there past or present. Earl isn't what I'd call boring either. Efren is still creating the most outlandish escapes and shots we've ever seen. He's a human highlight reel. Then we have SVB and Dennis O, the two straight up champions who are all business. The only thing we're missing is some damn tv coverage. Thank goodness for TAR and all the streams.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I like guys like Alex and Keith who bring fun to the game. Earl on the other hand is just a dick. He's pretty much the Phil Hellmuth of the pool world, or maybe Phil Hellmuth is the Earl Strickland of the poker world.

As far as Keith (in his prime) vs. SVB (now). I'll take SVB. Not saying he'd crush him. In fact, I think it would be pretty close. In a long race to 100 though, I'd take Shane every time. No offense to Keith or Jam.

 

[West Point 1987]

I like guys like Alex and Keith who bring fun to the game. Earl on the other hand is just a dick. He's pretty much the Phil Hellmuth of the pool world, or maybe Phil Hellmuth is the Earl Strickland of the poker world.

As far as Keith (in his prime) vs. SVB (now). I'll take SVB. Not saying he'd crush him. In fact, I think it would be pretty close. In a long race to 100 though, I'd take Shane every time. No offense to Keith or Jam.

If only we could violate physics and prove it. I like 1985 Keith over 2013 SVB in a long race...look up "grinder" in the dictionary, it has a picture of Keith McCready.

 

[BeiberLvr]

If only we could violate physics and prove it. I like 1985 Keith over 2013 SVB in a long race...look up "grinder" in the dictionary, it has a picture of Keith McCready.

It's not just about being able to grind out a long race, which Shane has proven time and time again he can do.

 

[BasementDweller]

The problem with comparing players of different eras is they had slightly different skill sets. I think the great 9 ball players from the previous couple of generations had slightly better cue ball control. This may have been a result of 14.1 (even those that didn't play 14.1). Today's great players, I think have better breaks and they are slightly better at pocketing balls, and they kick a lot better.

So in my estimation, if you took a 30 year old Keith McKready and put him up against today's Dennis Orcullo, SVB, or other top players, I think he would be at a slight disadvantage. But the thing is, I totally believe if this same Keith was 30 years old today he would have the needed skill set to compete with today's players. Make since?
In other words, if those players had to be better at pocketing balls, or they had to be better at kicking at balls to compete with today's players, then that's what they would practice.

The game changes. The short rack rotation players have gotten better. That's what happens with us humans.

 

[Lock N Load]

Good point, it's strange that in a age of instant information that we have in a sense became more antisocial. I remember when I was a teen we would get a keg of beer, BBQ some steak and ribs, have a stereo going while throwing horseshoes or whatever and we all just hung out and had fun. I hardly see this anymore. The kids now are huffing keyboard duster in their bedroom and playing online gaming for hours on end.

I'm not ragging on them, it's just different then it used to be. We had more actual social interaction and they have more indirect social interaction. I guess I'm just getting old! Oh well, see you guys down at the bar for a beer and a game of pool. :wink:

Very good to the point post. Don't forget looking into cell phones all the time!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[peteypooldude]

I would think Keith's generation of players were better at
pocketing balls. Todays players are more safety minded compared to Earl or Keith. Shane made the statement that he didn't think he has reached Earls speed in his prime yet. The game is played differently, same game just different equipment and different rules. What sets Earl apart to me is him showing up to run 11 racks and doing so..... That's incredible in itself
Players have been putting packages together for years. I don't think that part has changed much

 

[CJ Wiley]

you don't have to have near the "complete game" to play one foul

If only we could violate physics and prove it. I like 1985 Keith over 2013 SVB in a long race...look up "grinder" in the dictionary, it has a picture of Keith McCready.

We all grew up playing "Push Out" rules which are a lot more demanding than {One Foul}.....you don't have to have near the "complete game" to play one foul, especially with jump sticks. Until they start playing Push out again we won't really know how good today's players really are. imho

 

[real bartram]

We all grew up playing "Push Out" rules which are a lot more demanding than {One Foul}.....you don't have to have near the "complete game" to play one foul, especially with jump sticks. Until they start playing Push out again we won't really know how good today's players really are. imho

Are you for real?
You don't know how good today's players are cause they play 1 foul

 

[richiebalto]

Are you for real?
You don't know how good today's players are cause they play 1 foul

Does this include Busti?

I thought there was a reason why hes been winning every tournament that hes in.

Oh my god, it must be the 1 foul!

Now that we all know this, Busti shouldnt be very hard to beat now?