Treatment to avoid glue lines at ferrules
- Thread starter deanoc
- Start date
Perfect faces with threaded ferrules and no epoxy.
Dean there are two ways that I use, depending upon the ferrule material. The most important thing is having a tight connection where the ferrule meets the wood, this joint must perfect because any slight / small gap will show glue. Since all my ferrules are screwed on to the tenon, there is little need for having any excess glue where the ferrule meets the wood of the shaft, so I wipe the epoxy off the bottom of the ferrule before I make it tight. Another method is a White Epoxy Tint made by West Systems, you mix it into the Epoxy and the Epoxy will turn white, this stuff works real well, almost 100% of the time you will get perfect results.
Hope this helps Dean
I just want to add one little tip as well. Make sure the hole in the ferrule is perfectly straight...if not then no matter how well the surfaces are faced, you'll still get a glue line...often only on one side of the ferrule. Many of todays ferrules are bought already drilled & tapped...or in tube form. Often these holes are not perfectly straight.
Big tip
This is huge IMO. Chris H tipped me to this when I first started. All good tips.
This is huge IMO. Chris H tipped me to this when I first started. All good tips.
That's why I like to thread them.
Don't assume the face of the ferrule is dead nuts flat as well.
Lap it carefully with a 400 grit paper glued on a granite slab .
I actually like to touch up the inside of the shaft's face and back up the tool (sharpest tool insert ) until it almost hits the outside edge.
That way the outside edge of the shaft will sure sit flat on that ferrule.
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Facing off and boring a perfect hole in your material are truly the best ways as have been stated....I've always just used a good wood glue like Tightbond and never had problems (so long as I faced off and bored), but tinting your epoxy white is a super smart idea, thats the first I've ever heard of that but dammmmm thats sharp brother.....
If anyone has bright easy cheap ideas, please don't use manwons epoxy tinting technique as a replacement for shoddy craftsmanship....take the time to face off everything properly and bore your holes to the right dia assuring a perfect square fit.....using it in conjunction with proper technique would definitely have great rewards.
rep to you sir,
-Grey Ghost-
I put my ferrule blank in the lathe and while it's there I face, drill, drill a receiver, thread, then finally reface lightly with a razor held flat against both edges so that face is dead nuts flat. I have used epoxy, yellow glue, white glue, & poly glue all with the same results & that is no glue line. I also crank the ferrule on with pliers so it's seated with absolute contact. One thing that I find is the major difference in glue lines is the sharpness of the bit used to face off the wood at the base of the tenon. If it's not absolutely razor sharp, it'll tear the wood instead of cutting smooth clean and the torn/shredded wood will absorb much more adhesive and therefore leave a glue line because the adhesive discolors the surface of the wood face by saturation.
Bingo...we have a winner. You can do all the ferrule prep you want and make sure it's dead nuts but if the male portion is faulty....glue line.
No offense to the tint in the epoxy but if your having to do this, I would rethink the procedure you are doing and examine things much closer.
Nothing wrong with insurance just in case, but of course you're right, correct procedure, angle of cutting, sharp tool etc, it's the answer.
Mario
Darn, and here I thought that small hole in the ferrule was for a small finishing nail. Oooops, don't tell nobody OK.:speechless:
But good stuff as usual, thanks for the tips.
But good stuff as usual, thanks for the tips.
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No offense taken, thanks for your opinion and I agree with your thoughts on this subject, I thought it may be an opinion for some, but on second thought you are correct and learning to do it the right way is the best way.
Thanks Dave
My gunsmith/cue maker friend says
To pay about 50 dollars to your cue maker- so that everything is done with the correct tolerances, the ferrule and tip instillation is something you want done correctly. This is where your solid feel comes from. Pay him for perfection. And you will have yrs of playing without any problems!! take out the Bausch & Lomb handheld viewer and see just how good the joint and glue line really is. Gunsmiths use optical lenses to do everything! mark
To pay about 50 dollars to your cue maker- so that everything is done with the correct tolerances, the ferrule and tip instillation is something you want done correctly. This is where your solid feel comes from. Pay him for perfection. And you will have yrs of playing without any problems!! take out the Bausch & Lomb handheld viewer and see just how good the joint and glue line really is. Gunsmiths use optical lenses to do everything! mark
> I've always tried to get the wood below the glue line as clean as possible before putting the ferrule on.
I've used thin CA for a while on Meucci type ferrules with thin walls and no threads. Always yellow glue on stuff where the threaded tenon fits nice.
I've only used epoxy on ones where the tenon was so small I couldn't tap the ferrule small enough to get it really snug.
Any glue line was so slight that you probably couldn't see it with the naked eye. No complaints as of yet.
I use a small,dead sharp,custom ground HSS tool that is aligned with the chuck face for cleaning up the tenon shoulder,in some cases having to move it back depending on who did what to it by .015 or so,and check it with a HSS blank for squareness.
Getting the internals such as tenon register and counterbores in the ferrule end deburred just right can also make a difference in how it fits,and how it looks after.
As previously mentioned,I lap the ferrule base and clean with alcohol.
I tend to prefer a little glue of some kind right at the base,but not necessarily squirting out at the base,just on the inside. I've never had to fix one,but have seen Red Dot Meucci's where the ferrule is only glued in the bottom half or so,and it came loose. Whoever worked on it had to fabricate a new ferrule from solid rod in all likelihood. Tommy D.
I've used thin CA for a while on Meucci type ferrules with thin walls and no threads. Always yellow glue on stuff where the threaded tenon fits nice.
I've only used epoxy on ones where the tenon was so small I couldn't tap the ferrule small enough to get it really snug.
Any glue line was so slight that you probably couldn't see it with the naked eye. No complaints as of yet.
I use a small,dead sharp,custom ground HSS tool that is aligned with the chuck face for cleaning up the tenon shoulder,in some cases having to move it back depending on who did what to it by .015 or so,and check it with a HSS blank for squareness.
Getting the internals such as tenon register and counterbores in the ferrule end deburred just right can also make a difference in how it fits,and how it looks after.
As previously mentioned,I lap the ferrule base and clean with alcohol.
I tend to prefer a little glue of some kind right at the base,but not necessarily squirting out at the base,just on the inside. I've never had to fix one,but have seen Red Dot Meucci's where the ferrule is only glued in the bottom half or so,and it came loose. Whoever worked on it had to fabricate a new ferrule from solid rod in all likelihood. Tommy D.
Thanks for all the good advice
Dean
cuemaking is really a difficult thing,I am not making cues myself but I was asking the question for a very talented cue maker who in spite of his efforts toward perfection was not having perfect results and didn't want to show his fanny in public,
Since mine has been shown so often I asked for him
Dean
cuemaking is really a difficult thing,I am not making cues myself but I was asking the question for a very talented cue maker who in spite of his efforts toward perfection was not having perfect results and didn't want to show his fanny in public,
Since mine has been shown so often I asked for him
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I have found that since the surface where the ferrule buts up against is end grain wood ... epoxy will wick into the wood slightly and darken it.
It is not the actual glue line you are seeing but the darkened wood a few thousands behind the glue line.
A drop of thin CA to seal the end grain will keep the epoxy from wicking into the shaft wood and you wont have that dark line.
At least that is what works for me.
It is not the actual glue line you are seeing but the darkened wood a few thousands behind the glue line.
A drop of thin CA to seal the end grain will keep the epoxy from wicking into the shaft wood and you wont have that dark line.
At least that is what works for me.
Here is how a commercial company tried to hide the glue line
http://www.kendocues.com/Websted/314.html
This did however cause some problems where ferrules fell off.
I do no magical tricks, sharp tools, use a boring bar to make the ID of the ferrule
exact in diameter and then some times a quick curing epoxy.
Also, I always put a pressure on the ferrule to push it against the wood.
Have had no complains so far.
N
http://www.kendocues.com/Websted/314.html
This did however cause some problems where ferrules fell off.
I do no magical tricks, sharp tools, use a boring bar to make the ID of the ferrule
exact in diameter and then some times a quick curing epoxy.
Also, I always put a pressure on the ferrule to push it against the wood.
Have had no complains so far.
N