Update from Legends and Champions Archer/Strickland Update from the horses mouth

bfdlad

bfdlad

T-Wheels
Silver Member
Hey all, it wasn't until late last night that I was really made aware of the seriousness of the stream problems. I am also very dissapointed, angry and VERY VERY sorry. A lot of time money and effort has gone into this and the actual product with commentary etc wat very good but just a shame people had a problem seeing it.

I will be leaving the hotel and having a meeting this morning to figure out exactly what we can do to make this right and how it all will work out as the PPv and streaming stuff isn't my strong point. I will be back on here later today to let everyone know what the plan is. Again I am sorry.

Also the show must go on and so we will be starting around 12.00 again today and will be doing the 14.1 I have been told that the stream is up and working well for today so please tune in and enjoy the final set.

Again I will be back to you all with answers later today but we will make it right.

Mark,
 
Good luck

Good luck. PPV streaming events are in their infancy. People need to show patience and understanding here. I'm sure they will make it right.
 
Well said, Mark

Plus, I wanted to bump this to the top of the list, so people see this before going into one of the other PPV threads.... so.....

BUMP
 
Mark, Please read my opinion of this subject

bfdlad said:
Hey all, it wasn't until late last night that I was really made aware of the seriousness of the stream problems. I am also very dissapointed, angry and VERY VERY sorry. A lot of time money and effort has gone into this and the actual product with commentary etc wat very good but just a shame people had a problem seeing it.

I will be leaving the hotel and having a meeting this morning to figure out exactly what we can do to make this right and how it all will work out as the PPv and streaming stuff isn't my strong point. I will be back on here later today to let everyone know what the plan is. Again I am sorry.

Also the show must go on and so we will be starting around 12.00 again today and will be doing the 14.1 I have been told that the stream is up and working well for today so please tune in and enjoy the final set.

Again I will be back to you all with answers later today but we will make it right.

Mark,
Click to expand...

Mark please read my double post on page 5 of refund demanded and let me know what you think of my opinion on this matter......duker509
 
justadub said:
Well said, Mark

Plus, I wanted to bump this to the top of the list, so people see this before going into one of the other PPV threads.... so.....

BUMP
Click to expand...

I see your bump and raise you a bump. :grin-square:
 
I've been streaming events (corporate events and the IPT) since the late 90's. Streaming isn't in its infancy, for sure. However, people have no idea how hard it is to produce a solid event. The problem lies here:

*** The audience will never want to pay enough money to cost-justify acquiring a solid internet line, bringing in multiple layers of switching and electronics, etc.

Even when you do everything RIGHT, things are still outside of your control that might affect the final stream quality and there's nothing you can do about it. When things go south during a streaming event, it's rarely something where you can be like, "OH-- it must be _____." Like with most situations, it takes time to figure it out and make an adjustment.

I'm really shocked why some people are "up-in-arms" over the debacle yesterday and marching up the hill with torches and pitch-forks DEMANDING their money back (as if they were so insulted and upset that there was a problem--- they're becoming indignant). I'm sure all you have to do is "ask" and Mark will take good care of you.

It's so rare (even when one of my clients pays $15k to $25k for a 1 or 2 day event) where NOTHING goes wrong - and that's with a full staff of people, dedicated T1 lines from Verizon (that cost a TON for a 2 day deployment), redundant equipment, etc.

Either you guys want future streamed events or you don't. If streaming promoters have to fade this nasty shit every time something goes south--- you won't have many events left to choose from. If things go bad - they'll take care of you. No need to get rammy and indignant.
 
Last edited:
bfdlad said:
Also the show must go on and so we will be starting around 12.00 again today and will be doing the 14.1 I have been told that the stream is up and working well for today so please tune in and enjoy the final set.


Mark,
Click to expand...
Mark,
The price for this streaming is fixed at $25 regardless of whether I want to buy one day of streaming or two. It seems to me that the event pricing should be tiered rather than having one fixed price.

By the way, if someone wants to buy the stream today, they can't as the "Buy" button is not available on tvmike.tv web site. In fact, the web site says the following: "If the button is not there check back later Ustream is having intermittent issues with the ticket sales button."
 
Last edited:
Thank you for the post Mark.
It's nice to hear a sincere apology from someone who cares more about their paying customers than their personal situation.

If this type of post would have come from Mike yesterday I don't think there would have been any backlash.

I look forward to today's 14.1 and I am sure I can speak for many here on AZ when I say I appreciate your concern and I am now confident that an amicable and fair resolution will be presented in the near future.
 
People only want what they paid for. It's like anything else you buy, if you can't deliver what was promise, people deserve their money back. All of the things you talk about are not their problem. Your making the profit. It's your problem. From a business standpoint, maybe it ain't worth it.


SpiderWebComm said:
I've been streaming events (corporate events and the IPT) since the late 90's. Streaming isn't in its infancy, for sure. However, people have no idea how hard it is to produce a solid event. The problem lies here:

*** The audience will never want to pay enough money to cost-justify acquiring a solid internet line, bringing in multiple layers of switching and electronics, etc.

Even when you do everything RIGHT, things are still outside of your control that might affect the final stream quality and there's nothing you can do about it. When things go south during a streaming event, it's rarely something where you can be like, "OH-- it must be _____." Like with most situations, it takes time to figure it out and make an adjustment.

I'm really shocked why some people are "up-in-arms" over the debacle yesterday and marching up the hill with torches and pitch-forks DEMANDING their money back (as if they were so insulting and upset that there was a problem--- they're becoming indignant). I'm sure all you have to do is "ask" and Mark will take good care of you.

It's so rare (even when one of my clients pays $15k to $25k for a 1 or 2 day event) where NOTHING goes wrong - and that's with a full staff of people, dedicated T1 lines from Verizon (that cost a TON for a 2 day deployment), redundant equipment, etc.

Either you guys want future streamed events or you don't. If streaming promoters have to fade this nasty shit every time something goes south--- you won't have many events left to choose from. If things go bad - they'll take care of you. No need to get rammy and indignant.
Click to expand...
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I've been streaming events (corporate events and the IPT) since the late 90's. Streaming isn't in its infancy, for sure. However, people have no idea how hard it is to produce a solid event. The problem lies here:

*** The audience will never want to pay enough money to cost-justify acquiring a solid internet line, bringing in multiple layers of switching and electronics, etc.

Even when you do everything RIGHT, things are still outside of your control that might affect the final stream quality and there's nothing you can do about it. When things go south during a streaming event, it's rarely something where you can be like, "OH-- it must be _____." Like with most situations, it takes time to figure it out and make an adjustment.

I'm really shocked why some people are "up-in-arms" over the debacle yesterday and marching up the hill with torches and pitch-forks DEMANDING their money back (as if they were so insulted and upset that there was a problem--- they're becoming indignant). I'm sure all you have to do is "ask" and Mark will take good care of you.

It's so rare (even when one of my clients pays $15k to $25k for a 1 or 2 day event) where NOTHING goes wrong - and that's with a full staff of people, dedicated T1 lines from Verizon (that cost a TON for a 2 day deployment), redundant equipment, etc.

Either you guys want future streamed events or you don't. If streaming promoters have to fade this nasty shit every time something goes south--- you won't have many events left to choose from. If things go bad - they'll take care of you. No need to get rammy and indignant.
Click to expand...

You are spot on...most places don't have the right bandwidth for a truely good feed...I forget but think they need a T1 connection which is around $200 a month & most places won't/don't carry it.So you could have a million dollars worth of camera's & equipment & it still wouldn't do you any good unless you make sure there is enough bandwidth to support it.
 
Last edited:
Woof Biscuit said:
People only want what they paid for. It's like anything else you buy, if you can't deliver what was promise, people deserve their money back. All of the things you talk about are not their problem. Your making the profit. It's your problem. From a business standpoint, maybe it ain't worth it.
Click to expand...

Sometimes you CAN'T deliver what's promised because a certain SERVICE PROVIDER goes down - and there's nothing you can do about it. It's not a case of someone being a donkey and not being able to technically handle a stream. If you promised your wife you'd pick up dinner from her favorite restaurant on the way home and the restaurant was closed (unexpectedly), did you fail to deliver on what you promised? Would it be right for your wife to give you shit for a few days because of it?

I have no affiliation with anything the streaming guys do, but one thing I CAN tell you IF (stress IF) they make a profit, it's certainly not worth the bullshit they have to take if something out of their control goes south and they have to fade pages of "I'm enraged / blood boiling" threads.

You guys go all postal on the streamers if something goes wrong--- and never do the opposite when it goes right. If ALL of the streamers stopped streaming in protest from the constant BS---- you guys would all be crying little girls.

Dave
 
Woof Biscuit said:
People only want what they paid for. It's like anything else you buy, if you can't deliver what was promise, people deserve their money back. All of the things you talk about are not their problem. Your making the profit. It's your problem. From a business standpoint, maybe it ain't worth it.
Click to expand...

There always i a question of "due diligence".
I wonder if maybe the only way to do these events is recorded? Will never
have a problem with "live feed".
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Sometimes you CAN'T deliver what's promised because a certain SERVICE PROVIDER goes down - and there's nothing you can do about it. It's not a case of someone being a donkey and not being able to technically handle a stream. If you promised your wife you'd pick up dinner from her favorite restaurant on the way home and the restaurant was closed (unexpectedly), did you fail to deliver on what you promised? Would it be right for your wife to give you shit for a few days because of it?

I have no affiliation with anything the streaming guys do, but one thing I CAN tell you IF (stress IF) they make a profit, it's certainly not worth the bullshit they have to take if something out of their control goes south and they have to fade pages of "I'm enraged / blood boiling" threads.

You guys go all postal on the streamers if something goes wrong--- and never do the opposite when it goes right. If ALL of the streamers stopped streaming in protest from the constant BS---- you guys would all be crying little girls.

Dave
Click to expand...

I wish I had the ability to put my thought into words the way you do. I tried in the original pitch fork and torch thread but you have said it with much more style then I was able too.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I've been streaming events (corporate events and the IPT) since the late 90's. Streaming isn't in its infancy, for sure. However, people have no idea how hard it is to produce a solid event. The problem lies here:

*** The audience will never want to pay enough money to cost-justify acquiring a solid internet line, bringing in multiple layers of switching and electronics, etc.

Even when you do everything RIGHT, things are still outside of your control that might affect the final stream quality and there's nothing you can do about it. When things go south during a streaming event, it's rarely something where you can be like, "OH-- it must be _____." Like with most situations, it takes time to figure it out and make an adjustment.

I'm really shocked why some people are "up-in-arms" over the debacle yesterday and marching up the hill with torches and pitch-forks DEMANDING their money back (as if they were so insulted and upset that there was a problem--- they're becoming indignant). I'm sure all you have to do is "ask" and Mark will take good care of you.

It's so rare (even when one of my clients pays $15k to $25k for a 1 or 2 day event) where NOTHING goes wrong - and that's with a full staff of people, dedicated T1 lines from Verizon (that cost a TON for a 2 day deployment), redundant equipment, etc.

Either you guys want future streamed events or you don't. If streaming promoters have to fade this nasty shit every time something goes south--- you won't have many events left to choose from. If things go bad - they'll take care of you. No need to get rammy and indignant.
Click to expand...

spider i have always liked your posts and take what you say as good info. so if disagree - and only a little please don't consider it to be malicious in any way. i just think that if a product is not ready to roll out in a professional way, people shouldn't charge money for it. if they do and there are problems that come up that are as bad as yesterday, you have to expect people to be upset. i have paid for a few TAR events and yes there were problems, all be it very small, but justin appologized and offered help and refunds and anything he could to help. i only hung in for the first 5 hours and during that time it was brutal. during the problems yesterday the streamer couldn't readily explain what happens during the purchase process, it took him well into the break to figure out how to explain it and never really got it right. he was slow to even appologize. he rarely posted in the chat.
i guess my problem is this, nothing is perfect. but when things go catastrophically wrong, you have to expect people to be upset. a lot of us canceled or declined offers for a weekend full of events to watch this and it was deplorable. i don't lay the blame solely on the streamer either, a lot of his problems were ustream related. they were not the best they could have been to thier customer (tvmike) they could have been.
 
I'm a very patient guy and it didn't bother me much yesterday when Mike kept having problems. I read that he was using 3 HD cameras and it was a full 1080p stream so I thought $25 was still a good deal even if there was a lot of problems and hopefully he'd get better with the next one.

I'm reading now that it's $25 a day. I have no problem paying that, but if your opponents charge $25 for 3 days of viewing and you want that daily, you'd better be bringing top quality production without any problems or be ready to give refunds. If I read wrong and I'm still paid up for today, I'm sorry for the misinformation and have no issues with the stream.

I remember in another thread where Mark Cantrill basically posted they weren't sure which streamer they would use and made it sound like he was going to shop it around. If that's what he did, I really blame him for shopping the stream around for the best deal instead of using known streamers who've been through the growing pains but might want a bigger piece of the pie.
 
I disagree with a lot of what you have to say Spider. People aren't being indignant. They have all the right in the world to be upset about paying $25 and not getting what they paid for. Your word choice in that regards is poor.

They aren't marching up hills with pitch forks, chill the **** out. They're going to the place they know will most likely gain an impact with their voice, and that's AZB. Why do you think protests are so effective?

And as far as I'm concerned, people are more thank thankful for the guys behind the scenes that provide the streams. I only have to go back as far as March and you can read through threads praising TAR for their job, even with their technical difficulties. When Justin offered a refund, 2 out of 1100+ people in the chatroom asked for one.

Coming up with excuses for why you can't have a functioning stream for two days is irresponsible and frankly, childish. Either you can or you can't, that's all there is to it. People aren't asking for the holy grail, they just want a functioning stream.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top