What are your thoughts about gambling debts ?

Troy

Troy if I lose a buck online to you today and my PC crashes,I will drive to Houma tomorrow (from ascension). Welshin on a bet (or a loan) is as bad as ANYTHING else that can make a person become an inmate.PM me with info on the tourney at Hightides 5/2.

P.S. Just like stealin.
Plea bargain my azz!!!!
 
Lot of that going around.

houmatroy said:
Some people think that because the money is gambling money that it's not the same as stealing...I disagree...I think it's just as bad to welch on a bet as it would be to flat out steal money that's not yours to begin with...I'm all for the old walking stick if you beat a guy out of all his cash but to some on here especially that will make online wagers & welch on it are nothing more than common thieves & should be delt with in the same manner...I know the old saying...money on the wood makes it good.. but what about the ones that you put faith that their word being their bond ?....I'd just like to see some other peoples views on this common occurrence that has happened to most of us at least once.
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Perhaps it could be called a "surgical" bankruptcy? :rolleyes:
 
houmatroy said:
Some people think that because the money is gambling money that it's not the same as stealing...I disagree...I think it's just as bad to welch on a bet as it would be to flat out steal money that's not yours to begin with...I'm all for the old walking stick if you beat a guy out of all his cash but to some on here especially that will make online wagers & welch on it are nothing more than common thieves & should be delt with in the same manner...I know the old saying...money on the wood makes it good.. but what about the ones that you put faith that their word being their bond ?....I'd just like to see some other peoples views on this common occurrence that has happened to most of us at least once.
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I always read these threads about people getting stuck for hundreds of dollars. How does one manage to let this happen? If you are betting any reasonable amount, you always put up the money.
If you are just playing for a few dollars a game you pay at say five games so it can't build up into anything to high. You don't let people go on the wire for hundreds of dollars. Years ago the rule was you always put up the last game and paid after every game as you play. When it was over the person who won the last game takes the "up" money. That way you can't even get air barreled for a single game.
 
macguy said:
I always read these threads about people getting stuck for hundreds of dollars. How does one manage to let this happen? If you are betting any reasonable amount, you always put up the money.
If you are just playing for a few dollars a game you pay at say five games so it can't build up into anything to high. You don't let people go on the wire for hundreds of dollars. Years ago the rule was you always put up the last game and paid after every game as you play. When it was over the person who won the last game takes the "up" money. That way you can't even get air barreled for a single game.
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Ive seen the post pulled off the light more than once.
 
houmatroy said:
Some people think that because the money is gambling money that it's not the same as stealing...I disagree...I think it's just as bad to welch on a bet as it would be to flat out steal money that's not yours to begin with...I'm all for the old walking stick if you beat a guy out of all his cash but to some on here especially that will make online wagers & welch on it are nothing more than common thieves & should be delt with in the same manner...I know the old saying...money on the wood makes it good.. but what about the ones that you put faith that their word being their bond ?....I'd just like to see some other peoples views on this common occurrence that has happened to most of us at least once.
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It's stealing, plain and simple....no different than coming over to my house and taking money out of my wallet when I'm not looking....

I didn't read all the replies, because frankly, if I read some crap about someone saying this is OK, I'd just piss me off :angry:

Whether you steal or lie, you don't deserve to breathe the same air as honest folks....please pull your lip over your head and swallow...
 
houmatroy said:
Some people think that because the money is gambling money that it's not the same as stealing...I disagree...I think it's just as bad to welch on a bet as it would be to flat out steal money that's not yours to begin with...I'm all for the old walking stick if you beat a guy out of all his cash but to some on here especially that will make online wagers & welch on it are nothing more than common thieves & should be delt with in the same manner...I know the old saying...money on the wood makes it good.. but what about the ones that you put faith that their word being their bond ?....I'd just like to see some other peoples views on this common occurrence that has happened to most of us at least once.
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There should be a solution to people that don't make good on their bets: just watch the movie Casino and ask them about "the hammer". Anybody that doesn't pay up deserves "the hammer". This will give them a reason for not being able to hold cash.
 
Welching on a gambling bet, though undeniably dishonest, is not even close to as serious as stealing.

Once upon a time, many societies experimented with the incarceration of debtors. The best known of these socieites was Victorian England. In fact, Charles Dickens dealt with the subject at length in his masterpiece "Little Dorrit." The utter absurdity of incarcerating debtors, which was exposed by Dickens, is something that eventually occurred to virtually all civilized societies, as what debtors really needed was a path to making good, to the extent possible, on their debts. Hence, the debtor's prison has nearly vanished from the face of the earth.

Gambling debts are legally unenforceable. Why anyone would make a bet with someone they don't know unless the money is posted in advance is beyond me. Here on the forum, time and time again, it has been the prevailing view of the membership that tournament organizers should escrow the prize fund money in advance. When it doesn't happen, we end up with the US Open disaster or, even worse, the IPT Reno fiasco. Why would somebody who believes tournament organizers should be required to post up feel that others shouldn't have to?

If you bet without insisting on posting up the money, you are, on a contingency basis, extending credit to whomever you bet with. In other words, even though welching is dishonest, you are taking a calculated risk that the debt would be paid. Anyone you wouldn't lend money to qualifies as someone you shouldn't bet with unless they post.
 
houmatroy said:
Casino's have laws to protect themselves...plus even now they know professional pursuaders to do the dirty work when the laws don't work...unfortunally we as a hold don't have the law in our corner on this 1....My lil Arab friend has 2 people that aired him for 15k apiece..1 of the air barrel marksmen owns a golf driving range in North La...and the other owns a poohall in Ky...both can get the money but chose the low road...now the only way my friend can collect a quarter is to sell the debt in which he will be lucky to get half with the juice that they charge...I use to have the attitude to right it off to the game but it's harder than ever to make money at pool these days & look at dead beats as scum & should have to be branded with a tattoo on their forheads that say " I am scum & don't pay my debts"...that way everybody knows what they are really about.
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But what if one of those guys made a deal to trade $12,000 worth of pool tables to settle his debt. The guy drove 12 hours to pick them up and wouldn't wait three or four hours longer until the guy woke up to get the tables because his girlfriend had to get home? The tables were there, you drove 12 hours with a Uhaul to pick them up and then leave? One word, STUPID.....

And this was after Gary had made an agreement to take the pool tables and Garys partner sent a biker into the poolroom I was running to strongarm the guy for the money instead. I know Gary wasn't cool with that move but for the guy to even want to deal with Gary after that says a lot.... FWIW, you won't find another soul this guy owes a nickel to and he's been in action for years.

Like I told you before in a PM, I told Gary going in the guy was good for 5k for sure, but when I came back 10+ hours later it was way past that. Gary dogged it first by letting it go that deep on the wire. I wouldn't even let someone like Flyboy, Betor, Hooker, etc? go that far on the finger, it's bad business. This all could have been settled long ago on the table swap but it didn't because Gary couldn't stick around for a few hours. 7-8 years later? Time to let it go.....
 
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houmatroy said:
Some people think that because the money is gambling money that it's not the same as stealing...I disagree...I think it's just as bad to welch on a bet as it would be to flat out steal money that's not yours to begin with...I'm all for the old walking stick if you beat a guy out of all his cash but to some on here especially that will make online wagers & welch on it are nothing more than common thieves & should be delt with in the same manner...I know the old saying...money on the wood makes it good.. but what about the ones that you put faith that their word being their bond ?....I'd just like to see some other peoples views on this common occurrence that has happened to most of us at least once.
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The interesting part is. In the case of gambling and the money not being put up, you don't know if either player would have paid if they lost. We know one of them didn't but the other guy may not have either.

It is far worse to play a guy who has beaten you several times and then one night you win and get stiffed. It also is worse if you are actually gambling which is not always the case in a pool match. You may be stealing and end up getting stiffed. You certainly have a right to get paid but in reality you were not risking anything other then would you get paid. I played a total stranger and beat him out of what he had. He offered to play more and if he lost would give me a check. I said sure and ended up winning another $300. I was risking nothing just the chance the check was no good. As it turned out it was but I didn't really care one way or another. I was not risking anything anyway.
 
My opinion is biased as I am against gambling. Don't get me wrong, I like to gamble, maybe throw away a few hundred in the casinos or play small money games with friends. But, its so common to hear stories of gambling ruining peoples lives, especially those who bet more than they can handle. Gambling debts are like a double edged sword, except you can't see the otherside. Its much easier to say yes to a loan and hope you win, rather than lose and pay off the debt. People will come up with any reason just to run away from the debt.
 
Still don't make it right !

The Saw said:
But what if one of those guys made a deal to trade $12,000 worth of pool tables to settle his debt. The guy drove 12 hours to pick them up and wouldn't wait three or four hours longer until the guy woke up to get the tables because his girlfriend had to get home? The tables were there, you drove 12 hours with a Uhaul to pick them up and then leave? One word, STUPID.....

And this was after Gary had made an agreement to take the pool tables and Garys partner sent a biker into the poolroom I was running to strongarm the guy for the money instead. I know Gary wasn't cool with that move but for the guy to even want to deal with Gary after that says a lot.... FWIW, you won't find another soul this guy owes a nickel to and he's been in action for years.

Like I told you before in a PM, I told Gary going in the guy was good for 5k for sure, but when I came back 10+ hours later it was way past that. Gary dogged it first by letting it go that deep on the wire. I wouldn't even let someone like Flyboy, Betor, Hooker, etc? go that far on the finger, it's bad business. This all could have been settled long ago on the table swap but it didn't because Gary couldn't stick around for a few hours. 7-8 years later? Time to let it go.....
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I see your point & agree with almost all of it except the time to let it go part....Still doesn't give anybody the right to STEAL....If i would have been the 1 staking the game it wouldn't have drawn out this long..but that aint what it's about..it's about Bet welchers are thieves plain & simple...I respect your opinion..you seem like a straight up guy...every welcher has a excuse on why they didn't pay to justify it to themselves & others why they stole..and your friend Mark is no exception...i've paid bets even after I saw that the I was hustled & the game was way out of line..WHY..Because I still gave my word & at the time thought it was a good game...I actually tip my hat to the ones that got me & over time it's made me a smarter gambler.
 
I Remember that!

macguy said:
Years ago the rule was you always put up the last game and paid after every game as you play. When it was over the person who won the last game takes the "up" money. That way you can't even get air barreled for a single game.
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I remember that, we use to put up what ever we were playing for by the game (amount) on the light and pay off every game, only hitch was sometimes if you didn't LQQK at the up money every now and again to make sure it was still there it may be in Action against you because,.........

I've gone to the rest room and be ahead, come back and forget to LQQK at up money and win say a few more games , so come to find out, the guy was Firing the Up-Money back at me!, then + the air barrell.....hehe......

had that happen a few times, but I do remember when that putting up the money by the game on the light was a norm.


David Harcrow
 
houmatroy said:
Some people think that because the money is gambling money that it's not the same as stealing...I disagree...I think it's just as bad to welch on a bet as it would be to flat out steal money that's not yours to begin with...I'm all for the old walking stick if you beat a guy out of all his cash but to some on here especially that will make online wagers & welch on it are nothing more than common thieves & should be delt with in the same manner...I know the old saying...money on the wood makes it good.. but what about the ones that you put faith that their word being their bond ?....I'd just like to see some other peoples views on this common occurrence that has happened to most of us at least once.
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Your question has merit, and let me say I do not Gamble the Amounts of Money you are talking about. A Quarter a Game, or Buck a Set, or a Beer is my limit. When the game or set is over no matter who wins the debit is paid.

When you make a BET with a Person for any amount it is IMHO TWO THINGS HAPPENED, and one is a Verbal Contract, and the other is a Promise to pay if you loose.

If the person don't pay then they have not honored a contract, like a contractor who promised to do work, or pay you for work.

NUFF SAID.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
When you make a BET with a Person for any amount it is IMHO TWO THINGS HAPPENED, and one is a Verbal Contract, and the other is a Promise to pay if you loose.

If the person don't pay then they have not honored a contract, like a contractor who promised to do work, or pay you for work.

NUFF SAID.
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Not so. Under contract law, this is not a contract, as the bet itself is not a legal transaction. To view it as the ehtical or moral equivalent of an oral contract is within reason, but it does not qualify as an oral contract.
 
houmatroy said:
I see your point & agree with almost all of it except the time to let it go part....Still doesn't give anybody the right to STEAL....If i would have been the 1 staking the game it wouldn't have drawn out this long..but that aint what it's about..it's about Bet welchers are thieves plain & simple...I respect your opinion..you seem like a straight up guy...every welcher has a excuse on why they didn't pay to justify it to themselves & others why they stole..and your friend Mark is no exception...i've paid bets even after I saw that the I was hustled & the game was way out of line..WHY..Because I still gave my word & at the time thought it was a good game...I actually tip my hat to the ones that got me & over time it's made me a smarter gambler.
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At some point you just have to let it go. You just have to let karma do it's thing and be content that they will get their own when karma catches up with them. There is a guy here locally that I beat out of 6k and I tried every route to get paid for a few years but shit just didn't work out. I let it go and said he will get his and about a year and a half ago karma put him in a stash house during a drug raid and the beautiful part is the cops found a dead body along with the drugs. He didn't have anything to do with the body, or know about it, but it got tied to him anyway..... Another that owes me 2k got robbed for 25k. Karma is a biatch..... But karma doesn't work if your still chasing the dough......

If Gary had folowed my advice he would have won 5k and got paid off within a day or two. Gary GAMBLED and let him go 10k beyond that!!! He had three or four guys that are triple smart gamblers tell him the guy is good for 5 and everyone told him once it got north of there to quit and settle up. Not saying that Mark is right, I think just the opposite. All I am saying is Gary made the worst move letting him go 10k beyond what anyone would vouch for the guy and then he dogs the deal for the tables. AND IIRC, Dane offered to by the 15k debt in the following days for 8k. How dumb was turning down that money....
 
don't bet.. problem avoided...people crack me up seriously what is the point if your not going to make serious money out of it or if you can't make a living doing it.. it's all just a little game people like to play and it's really turned me off of playing with some people... i find i'm generally just happier when i maintain the no bet.. if i have to practice by myself so be it... i'm playing pool to have fun and relax not pay my light bill or take someone else's dough.. just my two cents.

f

ps.... as far as a debt. POST THE MONEY and you will never have this problem.
 
sjm said:
Not so. Under contract law, this is not a contract, as the bet itself is not a legal transaction. To view it as the ehtical or moral equivalent of an oral contract is within reason, but it does not qualify as an oral contract.
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Thank you for the clarification of contract law, but I am old school were my word, or hand shake mean something.:D
 
sjm said:
Not so. Under contract law, this is not a contract, as the bet itself is not a legal transaction. To view it as the ehtical or moral equivalent of an oral contract is within reason, but it does not qualify as an oral contract.
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It has the essence and intent of a contract. Both parties laying out up front what they are willing to agree to and guaranteeing to complete their obligation in the end. While not legal or enforceable, it is in essence moral contract.
Reminds me of someone asking, "What would you do if you caught your girlfriend cheating on you"? The answer is you, thank her. You now know she is not worth your time. You have gotten off cheap maybe before it was too late. You may have married the piece of crap.

How that applies here is, how would you like to have lost to the guy only to never know if you won you would not get paid. Now you know what he is.
 
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