What are your thoughts about gambling debts ?

houmatroy

houmatroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some people think that because the money is gambling money that it's not the same as stealing...I disagree...I think it's just as bad to welch on a bet as it would be to flat out steal money that's not yours to begin with...I'm all for the old walking stick if you beat a guy out of all his cash but to some on here especially that will make online wagers & welch on it are nothing more than common thieves & should be delt with in the same manner...I know the old saying...money on the wood makes it good.. but what about the ones that you put faith that their word being their bond ?....I'd just like to see some other peoples views on this common occurrence that has happened to most of us at least once.
 
"What are your thoughts about gambling debts"?
It doesnt matter HOW they are MADE.Pay your debts or DON'T bet,SIMPLE.
 
houmatroy said:
Some people think that because the money is gambling money that it's not the same as stealing...I disagree...I think it's just as bad to welch on a bet as it would be to flat out steal money that's not yours to begin with...I'm all for the old walking stick if you beat a guy out of all his cash but to some on here especially that will make online wagers & welch on it are nothing more than common thieves & should be delt with in the same manner...I know the old saying...money on the wood makes it good.. but what about the ones that you put faith that their word being their bond ?....I'd just like to see some other peoples views on this common occurrence that has happened to most of us at least once.
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I agree with you 100%. It is stealing. If you go into a match with a player who's air barreling you're in a situation where you can lose money but can't win money. I used to really love gambling in pool but I've seen so much bulls*#T with people air barreling and such that I don't really gamble unless I know the person well. Even posting up the money doesn't always work, i've seen people lose and then immediately grab the money off the light and dash out the door!
 
Bet welching is about the worst thing you can do. I consider bet welching to be if you bet a G and have 10 bucks in your pocket and lose. It's a little different when after a long session you are down $4k and only have $3500 on you so you pay out and then in a timely fashion pay the $500 back with a little extra to cover the interest. To me the latter isn't so bad, it happens it's part of the game.

What kills me though is somehow notorious bet welchers somehow can still get action, I'm even guilty of betting into an empty pocket eventhough I had a sense they were already busted. It makes me want to hurt people who do that but at the same time if I get into some bad trouble I'll lose a lot more than a bet is even worth. It's the sole thing that makes me want to only enjoy pool the way I do bowling. Before I ever made a bet I loved pool with no action. Now I almost feel like it's not pool unless there is a little something on the line. Kind of makes you wonder right?

Great topic, I hope it hits 30 pages, rep to you. I'll be following this one closely.

P.S. did you just get hit with 1000 PSI of Air??
 
People do things all the time online that they would never do in person. Being anonymous seems to amplify people behavior, especially the bad characteristics.

Its just too easy to stiff people and then rejoin the forum under a different name. Just ask Southpaw. Im sure he is still here on the forum. Watchez even called out some guy the other day that probably was Southpaw.
 
Casino's protect themselves from being aired !

Casino's have laws to protect themselves...plus even now they know professional pursuaders to do the dirty work when the laws don't work...unfortunally we as a hold don't have the law in our corner on this 1....My lil Arab friend has 2 people that aired him for 15k apiece..1 of the air barrel marksmen owns a golf driving range in North La...and the other owns a poohall in Ky...both can get the money but chose the low road...now the only way my friend can collect a quarter is to sell the debt in which he will be lucky to get half with the juice that they charge...I use to have the attitude to right it off to the game but it's harder than ever to make money at pool these days & look at dead beats as scum & should have to be branded with a tattoo on their forheads that say " I am scum & don't pay my debts"...that way everybody knows what they are really about.
 
I recently got burned on a bet and had a guy say this to me (just today actually) "I wouldn't completely classify demar as a thief perse...he didn't actually steal...just didn't pay up, hence deadbeat gambler." This was my response...
Poolplaya9 said:
Please explain to me in logical detail exactly what you feel the difference is?

Is it because the money wasn't in my hand yet before he took it? The moment the last 9 ball went down that money was mine, and if he keeps me from that money by whatever means, it's theft. Somebody recently used a good example of your boss deciding not to give you your paycheck. Are you going to say that is also not theft just because you hadn't had your hands on that yet either? In both cases you had earned the money, and it was stolen from you...whether or not it had ever been in your hands yet is immaterial.

Is it because I didn't "work" for it or because it didn't "cost me anything" out of my own pocket? There is no "work" involved per se because it is actually an investment. My "cost" was the risk that I assumed for a potential loss of $30 out of my own pocket. I invested and risked $30, and it's no different then any other investment really. If I put $30 into a stock and that company goes under, I would lose my $30 (this would be like if the guy I bet on lost the match). But if that company starts booming and doing great and refuses to pay me the dividends that we had agreed on then that is theft (this would be like when the guy I bet wins the match).

It was a theft and he is a thief, further evidenced by him dodging and refusing to communicate.
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Needless to say I think this is theft. When somebody refuses to give up possession of something you are entitled to, it is theft...period.
 
houmatroy said:
Some people think that because the money is gambling money that it's not the same as stealing...I disagree...I think it's just as bad to welch on a bet as it would be to flat out steal money that's not yours to begin with...I'm all for the old walking stick if you beat a guy out of all his cash but to some on here especially that will make online wagers & welch on it are nothing more than common thieves & should be delt with in the same manner...I know the old saying...money on the wood makes it good.. but what about the ones that you put faith that their word being their bond ?....I'd just like to see some other peoples views on this common occurrence that has happened to most of us at least once.
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If I remember correctly, legally speaking, there is a big difference between a gambling debt vs. "legitimate" debt.

Gambling debts are not collectible in court.
 
I agree with you !

CrownCityCorey said:
If I remember correctly, legally speaking, there is a big difference between a gambling debt vs. "legitimate" debt.

Gambling debts are not collectible in court.
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It's sad that there are no legal bounds...maybe if it was collectable in court there wouldn't be so many willing to do it...There should be conciquences when somebody steals from another.
 
I can't believe nobody else has a opnion on this subject that has kinda become a epidemic online as well as in the poohalls.
 
houmatroy said:
I can't believe nobody else has a opnion on this subject that has kinda become a epidemic online as well as in the poohalls.
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Well Troy, If the people that got stiffed would pay another scumbag to teach the stiffer a lesson, then maybe he would see the light. If not, pay another scumbag, and another, and another. You want to play, You have to pay.
Casey
 
Not paying your debts is a sign of an immature mind.

Air barrels are for the ethics-challenged.
 
Gambling Debts

You have to consider the people you are betting with and the world in which you bet. Most of the people who don't pay gambling debts don't have any money and probably don't have any credit cards (to show good credit - which is what your doing when you don't post the money).

Most of the time you know who your gambling with and know the outcome of payment ahead of time. Chris Bartram is trying to get bets on a TAR match on another thread. Chis is known for big bets when he plays but turned down 100.00 bets (chump change to him) because he didn't know the Azer. Chris is smart and won't let anybody stiff him. We should all follow his lead and we won't get stiffed.

If you don't know your opponent don't give him any credit - post all the money or don't bet. I believe its your own dam fault when you get stiffed in a bet.
 
To me welching is worse than stealing because you are not honoring your word. It is that plain and simple to me.
 
I've been stiffed on several bets ranging from billiards to basketball games. At best I got into an argument and at worst.....well I actually did this every time I smeared his name to every ear that would listen in town.

The worst excuse I heard for not paying was "Oooh no we didn't shake on it!!". I looked at em and asked him if we were in grade school.
 
Air barreling is not only akin to stealing, but if you think about it, it is also fraud.

If you don't think it's theft, try welching on a casino debt in the state of Nevada and you'd be facing a felony.
 
I feel it's different from stealing because a victim of theft has less than when he started. A victim of an airbarrel does not, though he's mad to think he "might" have given away money if he lost to a guy who wasn't prepared to return the favor.

I see it more as a broken promise (or broken business contract) than as actual theft. It's like you worked for a guy and he said he'd pay you under the table but the money never materialized. You could argue that guy "stole" your time, but work is work and pool is playing, even when you play pool for a living.
 
houmatroy said:
Some people think that because the money is gambling money that it's not the same as stealing...I disagree...I think it's just as bad to welch on a bet as it would be to flat out steal money that's not yours to begin with...I'm all for the old walking stick if you beat a guy out of all his cash but to some on here especially that will make online wagers & welch on it are nothing more than common thieves & should be delt with in the same manner...I know the old saying...money on the wood makes it good.. but what about the ones that you put faith that their word being their bond ?....I'd just like to see some other peoples views on this common occurrence that has happened to most of us at least once.
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I am 49 years old and I have lived my life by a very simple code, your word is your bond. For those who disagree or do not understand this, they live in an ever shrinking world.

Take care
 
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