Well, as much as I'd like to get into this conversation today, I have to get down to Tuscon next, work calls.
What exactly makes a Diamond the better table??
- Thread starter Cmbeers
- Start date
a few observations/speculations...
Diamond tables are made in the USA, correct?
Brunswicks for the last how many years (maybe 15?) are made in China, right?
I don't in any way want to spin this off into an anti-China products rant, just that I think QC on the Gold Crown suffered with Brunswick's decision to import their tables.
Also, I read on this thread from Bob Jewett that he has witnessed rail rubber from Brunswick basically disintegrating in a rather short period of time while he added that many antique Brunswicks with their original rubber are still playing great.
I have had problems myself with Brunswick superspeed rubber of recent manufacture that also lost its nice elasticity way prematurely. And yes, these were from China. I think that, again, the QC on the imported items is sorely lacking.
I own a GC1 circa 1962 and I really like its play a lot. It seems that beginning with the GC3's, quality started heading downhill in a hurry.
If it's a close choice for a potential table buyer, I would lean toward Diamond over Brunswick simply based on USA made vs import.
JMO
Best,
Brian kc
Diamond tables are made in the USA, correct?
Brunswicks for the last how many years (maybe 15?) are made in China, right?
I don't in any way want to spin this off into an anti-China products rant, just that I think QC on the Gold Crown suffered with Brunswick's decision to import their tables.
Also, I read on this thread from Bob Jewett that he has witnessed rail rubber from Brunswick basically disintegrating in a rather short period of time while he added that many antique Brunswicks with their original rubber are still playing great.
I have had problems myself with Brunswick superspeed rubber of recent manufacture that also lost its nice elasticity way prematurely. And yes, these were from China. I think that, again, the QC on the imported items is sorely lacking.
I own a GC1 circa 1962 and I really like its play a lot. It seems that beginning with the GC3's, quality started heading downhill in a hurry.
If it's a close choice for a potential table buyer, I would lean toward Diamond over Brunswick simply based on USA made vs import.
JMO
Best,
Brian kc
Brunswick had quality control issues long before going out of country to have their tables built. From working Brunswick tables built long before out of country manufacturing was even thought of they had issues, such as inconsistent pocket openings, inconsistent down angles, and slate frame problems
What makes a Diamond the better table?
Not sure... but I own one (9' Pro Am with Dymondwood rails and tourn blue 860) and I absolutely love shooting on it.
And my practice partner does as well... even though he has a GC that Glen re-worked recently to play "like a Diamond" (new cushions and tightened pockets down to 4.5")... when we practice together, he's the one that comes to my house.
Since he had his GC re-worked I have played on his table just once... and Jeff (Mr. J) has played on my table at least 50 times.
Nuff said.
Not sure... but I own one (9' Pro Am with Dymondwood rails and tourn blue 860) and I absolutely love shooting on it.
And my practice partner does as well... even though he has a GC that Glen re-worked recently to play "like a Diamond" (new cushions and tightened pockets down to 4.5")... when we practice together, he's the one that comes to my house.
Since he had his GC re-worked I have played on his table just once... and Jeff (Mr. J) has played on my table at least 50 times.
Nuff said.
Playing on them is way different than working on them, which is why they're out of business today
I would suggest getting your facts straight.
http://www.billaressam.com/detalle-producto.php?idproducto=172&ididioma=2
I bought a Gold Crown V last year. All of the wooden parts, including the rails, were made in Brazil. All the hardware was made in the U.S.A. No Chinese parts at all. (Assuming that the "Made in ---" printing on all the boxes were correct.)
Diamond or Brunswick Kling?
I will take a Kling set up by a great mechanic plz!
Diamonds are like Schon cues, great production tables. Want a table that is the equivalent of that fine custom cue? Start looking at the classics from the past. They don't build em like that anymore, if they did the tables would all cost $20,000 in wood costs and far more hands on construction techniques.
Some of the unbelievably nice tables out there that you can get for the price of a new Honda Civic, or your typical painting in a decent gallery, and you are getting a rare work of art, amazingly functional pool table, and phenomenal investment all in one.
I will take a Kling set up by a great mechanic plz!
Diamonds are like Schon cues, great production tables. Want a table that is the equivalent of that fine custom cue? Start looking at the classics from the past. They don't build em like that anymore, if they did the tables would all cost $20,000 in wood costs and far more hands on construction techniques.
Some of the unbelievably nice tables out there that you can get for the price of a new Honda Civic, or your typical painting in a decent gallery, and you are getting a rare work of art, amazingly functional pool table, and phenomenal investment all in one.
I could have swarn they were out of business.....either way, I won't work on the tables anymore. Anyone that designs a pocket liner to be nailed in from the topside is crazy, not to mention the rail design....leaving only little areas to staple the cloth on....which wear out and can't be fixed.
"But-but-but Glen, don't you know about Plastic Wood wood filler?"
-Sean
I don't think a diamond plays anything like anyother table, and i'm not talking about pocket size. Balls jump off the rail,everything comes off shorter which makes banking balls and playing shape completely different than anyother tables. Which table do you think Johnny Archer and many older players prefer to play on for this very reason? I also know of a poolroom with a 9 ft diamond,only 10 months old that they can't get level! I can also say diamond barboxes are much easier to play on than a valley with slow nap cloth,much tighter side pockets. Its nothing to make 4 balls on the break on a diamond barbox on the break with 860 cloth,fast rails and canyon side pockets.Also on diamonds you never have to hit a ball hard to play shape anywhere on the table. Just in the last 2 weeks i have made 6 balls on the break including the 9 on a diamond pro-cut barbox,and i don't recall ever doing this on a valley in all the yrs i played them.
breaking balls
Most valley tables have dirty cloth and nasty dirty balls'
_ with clean 860 cloth and clean balls you can make more balls on the break'
- - if u play like a champ and allways have to give up a spot and the breaks,you will want to get the dirtyest set of balls from the counter'. The player breaking will make way less balls on the snap!
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Rob.M
Most valley tables have dirty cloth and nasty dirty balls'
_ with clean 860 cloth and clean balls you can make more balls on the break'
- - if u play like a champ and allways have to give up a spot and the breaks,you will want to get the dirtyest set of balls from the counter'. The player breaking will make way less balls on the snap!
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Rob.M
Do you run into a lot of Valley tables with Simonis 860 cloth? I sure don't. This is a night and day difference. Put Simonis on a Valley and while it won't play like a Diamond, it will roll like a diamond, and you will also be able to claim that you don't ever have to hit a ball hard to get shape.
KMRUNOUT
Ya know what, I'd be willing to make a bet with you that out of 10 breaks....you don't make 4 balls or more on the break twice during your 10 break attempt
I still don't have the time to post the differences between tables as of yet, I'm taking a GC4 with 5 1/2" corner pockets, and 5 1/4" side pockets and turning it into 4 1/2" and 5" pockets.
I'll tell you one thing for damn sure Diamond has over Brunswick....consistant pocket angles!!! This NEW GC4 has some of the most screwed up pocket miters there is, varying from 141 degrees to more than 144 degrees....in the same damn corner pocket!!! Not one corner pocket on this table has the same pocket opening....and it's NEW!
Glen
I'll tell you one thing for damn sure Diamond has over Brunswick....consistant pocket angles!!! This NEW GC4 has some of the most screwed up pocket miters there is, varying from 141 degrees to more than 144 degrees....in the same damn corner pocket!!! Not one corner pocket on this table has the same pocket opening....and it's NEW!
Glen
Brunswick's off-shore manufacturing
Off-shore manufacturing, at its cost-cutting (and "corner-cutting") best!
Off-shore manufacturing, at its cost-cutting (and "corner-cutting") best!
Off-shore manufacturing, at its cost-cutting (and "corner-cutting") best!
If that be the case, then the 1946 9ft Centennial I just worked on must have been manufactured offshore....because it had worse pocket cuts on it than this GC4 did
Glen
If that be the case, then the 1946 9ft Centennial I just worked on must have been manufactured offshore....because it had worse pocket cuts on it than this GC4 did
Glen
You're right, Glen. Brunswicks just suck, period. There. Saved you the effort of outright saying it.
You're right, Glen. Brunswicks just suck, period. There. Saved you the effort of outright saying it.
Naaa....Brunswick's are one of my favorite pool tables built...commercial wise that is, right up there with Diamonds....provided they're worked on correctly. They're a great table, and as Mark Gregory once told me...the job of a real mechanic is to fix, repair, or mofify what the manufacture did....not build the table.
Glen