What is Borana Andoni's speed?

Cornerman said:
I for one hope people judge me on my past. My current game is somewhere between abysmal and atrocious.

Plus, I can't even throw a piece of chalk across a room anymore...

Fred <~~~ IMO
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ShootingArts said:
What are the options between abysmal and atrocious? Can't be "awful", that is just the other side of atrocious, pretty close to awesome! "Adequate" is a possibility and so is average. I doubt average works but I like adequate since it covers a huge range as long as you don't specify adequate for what!

Hu
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You guys crack me up!!
 
real bartram said:
disco they wont answer you its like you are not even here.
but my 2 man team will play .
me and rob pole what spot do you fools want?
lets ride.
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Im easy, Ill take anyone from my team and we'll play you clowns bar table 8 ball, you guys bank the 8. oh its ok , i didnt think you guys really wanted to gamble. see ya.
 
In seeking a product or person that has "marketability", a company or investor will research the demand of its audience. I think it's fair to say that once they find an angle they think will work (i.e., 6 hot chicks who not only can play great pool, but are ambassadors in the pool world noted by the countless hours of work they put in on the business side) that the demand will speak for itself. Currently NYCGrind.com has a web series out on KOD, with almost 8,000 views so far after only 3 episodes. So, whether you feel KOD "deserves" this kind of attention is not the issue, as cleary people are interested. And no one in their right mind would turn that down. In fact, NOT ONE of the promotions that have been done around them were their idea. EVERY SINGLE company, promoter, etc. has come to them with these offers.

The audience they reach are new pool players, amateurs and/or fence-sitters (people who did play but dont so much and have the ability to come back). If you were trying to reach the top players in the world, maybe they wouldn't be the right choice. But let's face it, in trying to promote the amateur level of the sport in NYC, wouldnt it be smart to start by pointing out that you get to play with these chicks?

They are GREAT ambassadors for the sport. They are well-spoken, educated professionals and people generally like them. How can you not?

And if you dont... well, that's fine. They'll survive without you :)
 
Roy Steffensen said:
Please stop it, it's getting old. If she ran a 4-pack once that doesn't mean a thing.

The most I've ever ran in 9-ball was a 5-pack, and that was at least 4-5 years ago. I am not even close to repeat it, but I am 5 times a better player today then back then, and I still suck.

The 4-pack means nothing, what counts is consistency. I would be more interested in how often she runs out in 9-ball in average in a race to 9.

I would guess less than 5%, based on the wpba-stats for the top 64 players there.

I hope this match happen. I like both girls, even though I've never met "omgwtf" she's like a friend and I would bet on her. But I think it will be close.
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Roy

Do I get to still think it or do I have to stop that also. I think you miss my point, but I do appreciate your suggestion on how I type and think.

I would guess you are better than a C+/B- player based partly on the fact that you once ran a 5 pack in 9 ball (coupled with the fact that you are now even a better player than you were then).

I AM exactly that C+/B- speed and I have never run 3 racks of nine ball, not even close, let alone 4 racks of 10 ball. I've seen OMGWTF play some, watched her match with CubC with much interest and I would judge her to play exactly at my speed and I'll flat out GUARANTEE you that she has NEVER run 4 racks of 10 ball. Please ask her.

Borana has. Her feat was originally posted by someone other than herself, and confirmed by her. I'm sorry but that, just doing it once, makes her better than C+/B- speed. I'm sure you were higher speed than that when you ran your 9 ball 5 pack weren't you?

Is there ONE single poster here that is C+/B- here at AZ that has run 4 racks of 10 ball?

Thanks

Kevin
 
hilla_hilla said:
Mel is also a sharp educated cookie. I believe she graduated from UCLA.
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HI Hilary! Missed you in SD but I was not around much there this year.

I know Melinda is also a very smart woman. I was really only speaking to the "why them?" comments about KOD getting a lot of sponsor and media attention.

I've met Melinda a few times at tournaments and she's a great player and obviously has some wit to her. I hope no one took my comment about KOD players as a knock to Melinda in any way. I know she is a very well known and well respected player in CA and has been for many years.
 
I have been a sponsor

lodini said:
In seeking a product or person that has "marketability", a company or investor will research the demand of its audience. I think it's fair to say that once they find an angle they think will work (i.e., 6 hot chicks who not only can play great pool, but are ambassadors in the pool world noted by the countless hours of work they put in on the business side) that the demand will speak for itself. Currently NYCGrind.com has a web series out on KOD, with almost 8,000 views so far after only 3 episodes. So, whether you feel KOD "deserves" this kind of attention is not the issue, as cleary people are interested. And no one in their right mind would turn that down. In fact, NOT ONE of the promotions that have been done around them were their idea. EVERY SINGLE company, promoter, etc. has come to them with these offers.

The audience they reach are new pool players, amateurs and/or fence-sitters (people who did play but dont so much and have the ability to come back). If you were trying to reach the top players in the world, maybe they wouldn't be the right choice. But let's face it, in trying to promote the amateur level of the sport in NYC, wouldnt it be smart to start by pointing out that you get to play with these chicks?

They are GREAT ambassadors for the sport. They are well-spoken, educated professionals and people generally like them. How can you not?

And if you dont... well, that's fine. They'll survive without you :)
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Lodini, excellent job nailing down what is important to the people promoting KOD. They definitely can play pool but the exact level they play at isn't terribly important to sponsors and promoters.

I have chased sponsors seriously and I have been a sponsor. First thing I looked for was someone that wasn't toting any significant negatives. Can't get along with your fellow competitors or the fans? I'm not going to sponsor you. Serious current or recent legal troubles or something totally socially unacceptable to many? I'm not going to sponsor you.

Then I start looking at the positives. First and foremost are you well known and popular? If so you probably already have a sponsor, if not I'll take a hard look at sponsoring you. The biggest field from a sponsor to select from are the young up and comers that are relatively unknown though. Here it is a little trickier, more like choosing the horse in the next race. Are they reasonably attractive? (Male or female, it still matters to the public so it matters to me when I am putting my advertising dollar out.) Do they conduct themselves as a professional the vast majority of the time? Do they have what it takes to be a future champion?

Note how far down the list ability or potential is. My sponsored competitor has to be liked by the people that I am trying to sell to. They also have to represent my business as well as I try to. That is seven days a week, twenty-four hours a day. If you are with any of the public or in view of the public you are on stage all of the time. Being a sponsored player is a tough gig, it isn't just somebody handing you a bundle of cash every time you turn around. If you have a sponsor like that they are really just a patron of the sport or a fool. Sponsorship is advertising and like all advertising bang for the buck is what matters.

Hu
 
kvinbrwr said:
I AM exactly that C+/B- speed and I have never run 3 racks of nine ball, not even close, let alone 4 racks of 10 ball. I've seen OMGWTF play some, watched her match with CubC with much interest and I would judge her to play exactly at my speed and I'll flat out GUARANTEE you that she has NEVER run 4 racks of 10 ball.
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This is exactly what is wrong with the pool worlds handicapping ability.
I just had a discussion about this very thing the other day.

It's all about ego.
Every person in the pool universe, knows better then everyone else, exactly how well everyone on the planet plays, based on their OWN ability.
So if you are labeled a C/B player, and YOU have never run 2 racks in a row, then it is impossible for anyone else who is C/B to have done the same, if your ego can't handle it.

Seriously, it's kind of amazing how many people THINK they have a firm grasp on being able to distinguish between amateurs, hacks, shortstops and champions, when in REALITY, they have no clue whatsoever.

I have known SEVERAL people that ran a 3 pack or a 4 pack, way before they EVER reached A and above speed.

Does that mean they can do it all the time? Absolutely not.
Does that mean that they are supposed to be held to a higher standard because of it? Absolutely not.
Does that mean that a lot of people get pissed cause they want to be able to run a 3 or 4 pack? ABSOLUTELY!!!
Especially those who then feel that since they can't do it at that C/B level, that somehow the system must be flawed because they are SUPPOSED TO BE running 3 or 4 racks, if someone else who is C/B level is doing it, and if they CAN'T.
Then, since they wouldn't want to go DOWN in ranking, then the obvious answer to them, is to move the other person up, despite it possibly being a one time deal and there being no difference in their speeds.
All because they can't handle the fact that someone else did it while they never have.

The key word here is consistency.

And as we all know, rotation games are ANYTHING but consistent.
Believe me, if i can go to the Camel Series South Jersey 10ball tournament years ago, and watch Strickland LOSE because his opponent broke in three 10balls in a row to win it, i can most certainly believe that some less then stellar player, can run a few racks.
I have watched TOTAL IDIOTS run racks, throughout my entire pool career.
Believe me, it's not always pretty, but it most certainly can be done by even the most terrible of hacks.

And EVERYONE who has spent time watching 9ball and 10ball in the days before alternate break, probably saw someone get lucky.
I mean, in my generation, unless you've been hiding under a rock, you definitely have seen someone break a bunch of balls in and have an easy out, only to break the 9 in the next game, only to break and make a ball, miss the shot but crap a ball in and have an easy combo on the money ball set up, and then watch as they snap the 9 in again.

BELIEVE ME, running a package one time, has absolutely NO bearing whatsoever on total skill.
To judge Borana's speed based on this factor alone, is absurd.

Better, would be to ask the right questions to better understand the nature of the run.
Were there any 10balls on the break?
Were there any combos on the 10?
Did she miss and poop any balls in along the way?
Were they really REALLY difficult racks, or were they all comsos.
What is the closest she has been to running 4 racks apart from this one instance?
And even then, you still can't make an informed decision. Why? Because goofy things happen in this game.

EVERYONE is allowed to play over their head. THAT'S WHY THEY CALL IT THAT, because it's not your normal speed.
It's when that "over the head" level becomes the new standard, that you can safely say that maybe someone is rated wrong.

I mean, if she comes out and says that she's run 146 three packs of 10ball in the past year, then yes, you can safely say that she is going to have to be rated at a higher level.
But to judge someone else's achievements, because you yourself haven't been able to do them yet, is just naive.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
This is exactly what is wrong with the pool worlds handicapping ability.
I just had a discussion about this very thing the other day.

It's all about ego.
Every person in the pool universe, knows better then everyone else, exactly how well everyone on the planet plays, based on their OWN ability.
So if you are labeled a C/B player, and YOU have never run 2 racks in a row, then it is impossible for anyone else who is C/B to have done the same, if your ego can't handle it.

Seriously, it's kind of amazing how many people THINK they have a firm grasp on being able to distinguish between amateurs, hacks, shortstops and champions, when in REALITY, they have no clue whatsoever.

I have known SEVERAL people that ran a 3 pack or a 4 pack, way before they EVER reached A and above speed.

Does that mean they can do it all the time? Absolutely not.
Does that mean that they are supposed to be held to a higher standard because of it? Absolutely not.
Does that mean that a lot of people get pissed cause they want to be able to run a 3 or 4 pack? ABSOLUTELY!!!
Especially those who then feel that since they can't do it at that C/B level, that somehow the system must be flawed because they are SUPPOSED TO BE running 3 or 4 racks, if someone else who is C/B level is doing it, and if they CAN'T.
Then, since they wouldn't want to go DOWN in ranking, then the obvious answer to them, is to move the other person up, despite it possibly being a one time deal and there being no difference in their speeds.
All because they can't handle the fact that someone else did it while they never have.

The key word here is consistency.

And as we all know, rotation games are ANYTHING but consistent.
Believe me, if i can go to the Camel Series South Jersey 10ball tournament years ago, and watch Strickland LOSE because his opponent broke in three 10balls in a row to win it, i can most certainly believe that some less then stellar player, can run a few racks.
I have watched TOTAL IDIOTS run racks, throughout my entire pool career.
Believe me, it's not always pretty, but it most certainly can be done by even the most terrible of hacks.

And EVERYONE who has spent time watching 9ball and 10ball in the days before alternate break, probably saw someone get lucky.
I mean, in my generation, unless you've been hiding under a rock, you definitely have seen someone break a bunch of balls in and have an easy out, only to break the 9 in the next game, only to break and make a ball, miss the shot but crap a ball in and have an easy combo on the money ball set up, and then watch as they snap the 9 in again.

BELIEVE ME, running a package one time, has absolutely NO bearing whatsoever on total skill.
To judge Borana's speed based on this factor alone, is absurd.

Better, would be to ask the right questions to better understand the nature of the run.
Were there any 10balls on the break?
Were there any combos on the 10?
Did she miss and poop any balls in along the way?
Were they really REALLY difficult racks, or were they all comsos.
What is the closest she has been to running 4 racks apart from this one instance?
And even then, you still can't make an informed decision. Why? Because goofy things happen in this game.

EVERYONE is allowed to play over their head. THAT'S WHY THEY CALL IT THAT, because it's not your normal speed.
It's when that "over the head" level becomes the new standard, that you can safely say that maybe someone is rated wrong.

I mean, if she comes out and says that she's run 146 three packs of 10ball in the past year, then yes, you can safely say that she is going to have to be rated at a higher level.
But to judge someone else's achievements, because you yourself haven't been able to do them yet, is just naive.
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Thankfsfor the primer. My fragile ego can handle it. I'm ready for ALL the AZ members that are B- or below that have run a 4 pack in 10 ball to post here about it.

I can take it (I think).

Kevin
 
When I ran the 5 pack I wasn't close to being a b player, I had played for like 2-3 years.

I still haven't repeated it, not even close, and now I am beating top wpba-pros. I consider myself an A-player, and played for 7 years.

A guy I can spot the 6 ball in 9-ball ran 4 racks in 8-ball many years ago. Is he an A and I am a pro?

It does not matter what you do ONE time. What you do day after day is what matters.

I doubt Borana runs a rack of 9-ball in each race to 7 match she plays. If she does, she will be a pro very soon

kvinbrwr said:
Roy

Do I get to still think it or do I have to stop that also. I think you miss my point, but I do appreciate your suggestion on how I type and think.

I would guess you are better than a C+/B- player based partly on the fact that you once ran a 5 pack in 9 ball (coupled with the fact that you are now even a better player than you were then).

I AM exactly that C+/B- speed and I have never run 3 racks of nine ball, not even close, let alone 4 racks of 10 ball. I've seen OMGWTF play some, watched her match with CubC with much interest and I would judge her to play exactly at my speed and I'll flat out GUARANTEE you that she has NEVER run 4 racks of 10 ball. Please ask her.

Borana has. Her feat was originally posted by someone other than herself, and confirmed by her. I'm sorry but that, just doing it once, makes her better than C+/B- speed. I'm sure you were higher speed than that when you ran your 9 ball 5 pack weren't you?

Is there ONE single poster here that is C+/B- here at AZ that has run 4 racks of 10 ball?

Thanks

Kevin
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Roy Steffensen said:
When I ran the 5 pack I wasn't close to being a b player, I had played for like 2-3 years.

I still haven't repeated it, not even close, and now I am beating top wpba-pros. I consider myself an A-player, and played for 7 years.

A guy I can spot the 6 ball in 9-ball ran 4 racks in 8-ball many years ago. Is he an A and I am a pro?

It does not matter what you do ONE time. What you do day after day is what matters.

I doubt Borana runs a rack of 9-ball in each race to 7 match she plays. If she does, she will be a pro very soon
Click to expand...

Roy

I'm confused about the 6 ball in nine ball and the racks of 8 ball. I just want to make it simple.

Would all the B- and worse players here at AZ that have run a true 4 pack in 10 ball please post it here? I'm C+/B- and have never come close, but as has been pointed out to me, that's just me so I'm looking to read about all the people that have accomplished it.

Thanks again

Kevin
 
Hmmmmm... does this count?

kvinbrwr said:
Thankfsfor the primer. My fragile ego can handle it. I'm ready for ALL the AZ members that are B- or below that have run a 4 pack in 10 ball to post here about it.

I can take it (I think).

Kevin
Click to expand...

I have drank a couple 6-packs while playing 10 ball - Does that count?;)

Just not sure where that puts me in the a-b-c ranking system? Maybe B for beverages?:grin-square:

Michael
 
real bartram said:
who do you like in the matches
borana vs omg
me vs darren appleton.
i want to bet both anyone want action lets ride.
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I've never seen either girl play, so I don't really know who I like in that match. Borana has run a 4 pack in 10-ball and OMGWTF won a pro event qualifier. They both play better than me. lol. I would have to flip a coin to pick a winner.

I like you against Darren. Not necessarily because I think you play better or because of the weight you're getting, but because I think you're going to bore him to death with your slow play. lol.

I'll give you some action though. Same offer I made to Rob Pole in the other thread. I'll let you give me the breaks the 5 and the 7 and we can bet $5 a game. Since I know you though (more than I know Rob at least), you have to pay the tokens for the games. :thumbup:
 
So there are some posts that have happened between last night and tonight that have a lot of words in them. I'm way to lazy to read them all right now. I'll belittle you all later.
 
GoTulane said:
I have drank a couple 6-packs while playing 10 ball - Does that count?;)

Just not sure where that puts me in the a-b-c ranking system? Maybe B for beverages?:grin-square:

Michael
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Michael

LOL

I'm writing that down in my list.

Thanks for the laugh

Kevin
 
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