What is pro in pool?

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williamcueblins

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My question is what makes someone Pro making money or skill level? Some players make money so what. So do hustlers do we think they are Pro? Perhaps ranking? Sponsorship? At what point does it go from better than average to Pro? Where is the line?
 
Wikipedia >>> A professional is a person who is paid to undertake a specialised set of tasks and orchestrate them with uncommon skill. Traditional examples of professions included medicine, nursing, law and engineering but is now more widely used to include estate agents, surveyors , environmental scientists, forensic scientists and many more. It is also used in sport to differentiate amateur players from those paid for their work. Hence Professional footballer or Professional golfer. In some cultures the term is used as shorthand to describe a particular social stratum of well educated, mostly salaried workers, who enjoy considerable work autonomy, a comfortable salary, and are commonly engaged in creative and intellectually challenging work.[1][2][3][4] Less technically, it may also refer to a person having impressive competence in a particular activity.[5]

Because of the personal and confidential nature of many professional services and thus the necessity to place a great deal of trust in them, most professionals are subject to strict codes of conduct enshrining rigorous ethical and moral obligations. END

Most of the Pros in Pool N Billiards are people that get up in the morning looking for a Mark. The industry does have a few paid Pros, the others have to make their living at gambling or Tournaments.

That is a sad state of affairs for any industry or tradition. I don't know what it will take to modify that situation...
 
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williamcueblins said:
My question is what makes someone Pro making money or skill level? Some players make money so what. So do hustlers do we think they are Pro? Perhaps ranking? Sponsorship? At what point does it go from better than average to Pro? Where is the line?
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To me as it pertains to pool, means, to be of elite skill. There are several that make money playing pool but are not pro's and several pro's aren't making much of a living playing pool. ( without subsidizing with a little gambling!:cool:)
 
Within the pool community, the moniker of "pro" is based on the general rating by your peers.

If you enter a handicapped or pro-rated event, your entry fee many times is decided by your rating among your peers. For instance...a Pro pays $100...an A+ player pays $80....an advanced, or A player...pays $60...etc.

After a few events, the peer system is not easily fooled. many events will only allow certain "ratings" of player. The BCA league uses a classification system and basically a Grand Master is a pro level player, but they will also specify Pro.

Being classed as a Pro is highly detrimental to your earning potential at smaller tournaments, because quite simply, many will not allow Pros to enter.

A lot of events use the posted or previous years top 64 ranked players as the Pro list.

In my opinion, one of the determining factors is the quality and experience of ones mental game. I believe a lot of very good players may underestimate the role this plays in high caliber pool.

When you are competing against 63 pros, or 127 pros, everyone can run out at any moment, and may run a few. The matches are decided by 2-3 mistakes in 16+ games. The ability to be able to compete a a pro level is certainly not just how well you shoot.

There is quite a jump from an A+ player to a rated Pro player.
 
It seems to me that some think just because you put up your entry fee for us. open or other big tournaments,that they are consider a pro,i dont agree with that ,1 must qualify better then that to be a pro,but u know all the real pros and great money players out there ,they know whos who!
 
TurdFerguson said:
Within the pool community, the moniker of "pro" is based on the general rating by your peers.

If you enter a handicapped or pro-rated event, your entry fee many times is decided by your rating among your peers. For instance...a Pro pays $100...an A+ player pays $80....an advanced, or A player...pays $60...etc.

After a few events, the peer system is not easily fooled. many events will only allow certain "ratings" of player. The BCA league uses a classification system and basically a Grand Master is a pro level player, but they will also specify Pro.

Being classed as a Pro is highly detrimental to your earning potential at smaller tournaments, because quite simply, many will not allow Pros to enter.

A lot of events use the posted or previous years top 64 ranked players as the Pro list.

In my opinion, one of the determining factors is the quality and experience of ones mental game. I believe a lot of very good players may underestimate the role this plays in high caliber pool.

When you are competing against 63 pros, or 127 pros, everyone can run out at any moment, and may run a few. The matches are decided by 2-3 mistakes in 16+ games. The ability to be able to compete a a pro level is certainly not just how well you shoot.

There is quite a jump from an A+ player to a rated Pro player.
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I agree with you 100 percent....and the jump from A+ to Pro is huge.....gigantic. I know plenty of A+ players and they can't hold a candle to the Pro rated players.
Saw one of em try to compete with Cliff J. not too long ago. Agreed to play certain amount of sets over a 2 day period of course getting a good deal of weight playing one hole. The A+ player was probably the only one in the house that thought it was a "good" game. First day wasn't so bad for the A+ player, but the second day it was absolutely brutal. He had no chance what so ever. One tiny mistake and your done.....cooked. You think...."he'll never get out from here, the A+ player will get another shot" and guess what.... 4 off angle long rail banks in a row and rack em.:smile:
 
While a "pro" pool player is a tougher to define entity then alot of other sports to me a professional pool player makes 100% of their living solely off of the game of pool and endorsements associated with their professional status.

If you work a job and go and play 5 or 10 tournaments a year you are not a pro. That includes working in a pool hall or giving pool lessons, if you do not make a real living, aka make enough money to live solely based on playing the actual game in competition you are not a pro.

I am not sure there are 30 people in the world who are atm true "professional" pool players for whom competitive pool is their sole "profession". Ralf, Thorsten, SVB, Alex, Archer, Orcullo, Mika... the guys who are to most people the true elites and who go and play in all the major events.

You also have to ACTUALLY make a living. Making $10 or $15k a year in events and bumming around without two dimes to rub together half of the year is not IMO a professional, you actually have to make a REAL living.
 
In my eyes, you're not a pro until you are entering bigger tournaments (I think we all know what this means, not your weekly 9 ball tournament) and consistently placing in the money.
 
Someone like Jeanette Lee who plays and makes millions in endorsements.:smile::thumbup:
 
While we all have our own ideas of what we consider "a pro", I seem to recall there being a convention whereby if you entered a tournament with at least $300 entry and cashed high enough to get at least your entry back, you were branded a pro...may have been the peer system, but not really sure. This was years ago, I think it was based on entry to the U.S. Open at the time, so if a guy got at least his entry back in the U.S. Open it was easy to verify down the road and easy to brand him wherever he went. It's really a skill level based upon pro tournament success, not on whether or not you make your living soley by playing pool. As someone said, if you use the criteria of making a living at pool, there'd only be about 30 pros in the World! And since we really don't have a recognized governing body, there's nobody to say exactly what a pro is, anyway.
 
Interesting.....

I paid for my first degree playing pool. Never joined any pro or amateur organization. Actually played part of a season with amateurs back in 98 or 99 while on a break from med school. Our team made it to Vegas but I had to go back to school so I didn't go. I actually hated it. It was very different from the pool I knew before.

Now I am a professional, a doctor. Nobody would ask if I consider myself a professional.


Way back in the day I was "house pro". And I made a living playing pool. I never considered it gambling, it was a steady and reliable income playing for cash on the table. I actually don't gamble at all. Went to Vegas once and put a nickle in a slot to say I gambled in Vegas, that is the extent of my gambling experience. I kept my head low. Nobody here knows me I am sure but I assure you I have played some of the people known here....road players and otherwise....as well as some of the people known to the larger world in pool......the true champions.

When I talk of those days long ago I say I was a pro.....but I don't say I was a professional. Somehow there is a difference when the term is abbreviated.
 
Cdryden said:
To me as it pertains to pool, means, to be of elite skill. There are several that make money playing pool but are not pro's and several pro's aren't making much of a living playing pool. ( without subsidizing with a little gambling!:cool:)
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I also define a 'pro' as a skill level, rather than a function of $ made.

Some of the best earners aren't the best players...the game is easiest won in the match-up phase.
 
I like this!

Chopdoc said:
Interesting.....

I paid for my first degree playing pool. Never joined any pro or amateur organization. Actually played part of a season with amateurs back in 98 or 99 while on a break from med school. Our team made it to Vegas but I had to go back to school so I didn't go. I actually hated it. It was very different from the pool I knew before.

Now I am a professional, a doctor. Nobody would ask if I consider myself a professional.


Way back in the day I was "house pro". And I made a living playing pool. I never considered it gambling, it was a steady and reliable income playing for cash on the table. I actually don't gamble at all. Went to Vegas once and put a nickle in a slot to say I gambled in Vegas, that is the extent of my gambling experience. I kept my head low. Nobody here knows me I am sure but I assure you I have played some of the people known here....road players and otherwise....as well as some of the people known to the larger world in pool......the true champions.

When I talk of those days long ago I say I was a pro.....but I don't say I was a professional. Somehow there is a difference when the term is abbreviated.
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Think you hit on something here. I think of all the road players and full time gamblers as "pros". They may not be professionals but I have a hard time calling somebody making a fulltime living at something an amateur. There is a large gray area in between but the people I consider elite professionals are capable of winning any event in the world on a given day. Not too many of them out there!

Found your "not a gambler" comment interesting too. I played the horses, play a little poker, and of course wagered nightly on pool for years. I don't gamble. I went in a new casino last week and got my card. The deal included up to $50 rebate on gambling losses that day, not at the poker table of course! I didn't stick a thing in a machine, just not my thing. Never have played video poker, never placed a bet in an offtrack parlor, never put anything in a machine in a casino. A lot of difference between gambling and wagering on your skills.

Hu
 
Heck....going to med school was a bigger wager and riskier than pool ever was. I came out of undergrad with money in my pocket. Med school was financial suicide. I am in the neighborhood of 400 grand in debt with no end in site but people look at me like I must have a cushy life because I am a doctor. Frustrating.


I should have stuck with pool. :D
 
know the feeling

Chopdoc said:
Heck....going to med school was a bigger wager and riskier than pool ever was. I came out of undergrad with money in my pocket. Med school was financial suicide. I am in the neighborhood of 400 grand in debt with no end in site but people look at me like I must have a cushy life because I am a doctor. Frustrating.


I should have stuck with pool. :D
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The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. People used to think I was getting rich in my business. They didn't see or consider the $15,000 a month overhead. Sounds like you are going to be paying student loans and insurance for awhile before you see any real dollars and of course the insurance is going nowhere except up!

Hu
 
Good One Celtic

I agree with Celtic on the definition of a Pro.
You have to be able to make a living.

Just because you ski down the expert slope doesn’t mean you’re an expert skier.
 
some people consider themselves pro pool players if they make their living in pool (including giving lessons). I'd imagine they'd have to play pro speed as well. I've heard another player say that to be considered pro, a player would need to hit around a million balls. I believe he was thinking along the lines of fulfilling some requirement for mastering a complex skill set. So I guess it's not black and white, rather there are a few ways to decide it.
 
ShootingArts said:
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. People used to think I was getting rich in my business. They didn't see or consider the $15,000 a month overhead. Sounds like you are going to be paying student loans and insurance for awhile before you see any real dollars and of course the insurance is going nowhere except up!

Hu
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Yeah....me and that chick Sallie Mae ain't friends.... :angry:

But on topic....

I am a professional....and a pool player......so that makes me a professional pool player! LOL! :thumbup::groucho:
 
professional/pool player

Chopdoc said:
Yeah....me and that chick Sallie Mae ain't friends.... :angry:

But on topic....

I am a professional....and a pool player......so that makes me a professional pool player! LOL! :thumbup::groucho:
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I like it!

Professional/pool player. Of course the slash is silent. :D

Guess we have pinned down one definition anyway.

Hu
 
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