What is the progression to being a great player?
- Thread starter Peter.
- Start date
Not sure we do. I'd say the top few dozen would be what I'd call "world class." But there'd be many other players that, by any reasonable meaure, are still great players. I think this is just a temrinology thing, Jay.
The progression to being a great player is going to be different for everyone.
First, (as we have seen here), you have to define a great player or you'll never know what you're referring to.
Is it someone who plays great? Is it someone who matches up great? is it someone who plays great under pressure?
It sounds like you're talking about someone who plays great, as you aspire to play great yourself. I can help you with that one. The other ones I still have some difficulty with so I won't comment on them.
The progression for you as an individual is going to depend on many factors.
Are you capable of playing great? Some people just aren't, it won't matter how hard they try, they just won't ever be able to play great.
Have you played for a period of time without using the proper fundamentals?
How long a time, if you have?
Do you have access to people who truly know the game and or games that you would like to play great at?
Do you have the dedication and willpower to focus and dedicate yourself to improving?
Do you have the eyesight and visual spatial acuity necesary to see and relate objects to each other in 3-d space?
Depending on the answers to these and probably a thousand more questions, the road of progression to playing great is going to be different.
As an example. I had a friend who had rarely if ever picked up a cue. I started teaching him the fundamentals and having him shoot drills right after PHJ came out in 2003 or 2004, don't remember which.
As he progressed and got to a level that he could learn new things, I gave him different drills and different levels of strategy to use.
Within seven months, he was a good player, within two years, he was a great player. Now, he has maxed out in ratings in both eight and nine ball in the apa (7 and 9 respectively) and he's a great player. One of thee greats? not yet, but who knows?
How much of that was natural ability? who knows....but like I said, the answer to soo many questions is necessary before you can know what the progression is. There are stages of development as many have pointed out, but those are generalizations.
If you're taught by the right person, you can skip many of those stages.
I often hear people talk about how systems don't work and the best players in the world are feel players and don't use systems.
I have yet to meet a truly GREAT player who just shot, without knowing some type of systems. Most of the best players know tons of systems, even if they don't use them consciously, they learned them at some point and used them to develop correct feel.
That's the key to playing great pool, develop a consistent stroke, develop correct feel, and practice as much as you possibly can, correctly if possible.
Use and learn every system you can. It will screw up your game for a while, but then you'll either discover how to incorporate it or you'll discard it.
Who knows listen to my rantings or discard them, it doesn't matter, actually nothing matters when you really get down to it.
Jaden
First, (as we have seen here), you have to define a great player or you'll never know what you're referring to.
Is it someone who plays great? Is it someone who matches up great? is it someone who plays great under pressure?
It sounds like you're talking about someone who plays great, as you aspire to play great yourself. I can help you with that one. The other ones I still have some difficulty with so I won't comment on them.
The progression for you as an individual is going to depend on many factors.
Are you capable of playing great? Some people just aren't, it won't matter how hard they try, they just won't ever be able to play great.
Have you played for a period of time without using the proper fundamentals?
How long a time, if you have?
Do you have access to people who truly know the game and or games that you would like to play great at?
Do you have the dedication and willpower to focus and dedicate yourself to improving?
Do you have the eyesight and visual spatial acuity necesary to see and relate objects to each other in 3-d space?
Depending on the answers to these and probably a thousand more questions, the road of progression to playing great is going to be different.
As an example. I had a friend who had rarely if ever picked up a cue. I started teaching him the fundamentals and having him shoot drills right after PHJ came out in 2003 or 2004, don't remember which.
As he progressed and got to a level that he could learn new things, I gave him different drills and different levels of strategy to use.
Within seven months, he was a good player, within two years, he was a great player. Now, he has maxed out in ratings in both eight and nine ball in the apa (7 and 9 respectively) and he's a great player. One of thee greats? not yet, but who knows?
How much of that was natural ability? who knows....but like I said, the answer to soo many questions is necessary before you can know what the progression is. There are stages of development as many have pointed out, but those are generalizations.
If you're taught by the right person, you can skip many of those stages.
I often hear people talk about how systems don't work and the best players in the world are feel players and don't use systems.
I have yet to meet a truly GREAT player who just shot, without knowing some type of systems. Most of the best players know tons of systems, even if they don't use them consciously, they learned them at some point and used them to develop correct feel.
That's the key to playing great pool, develop a consistent stroke, develop correct feel, and practice as much as you possibly can, correctly if possible.
Use and learn every system you can. It will screw up your game for a while, but then you'll either discover how to incorporate it or you'll discard it.
Who knows listen to my rantings or discard them, it doesn't matter, actually nothing matters when you really get down to it.
Jaden
Now I wonder if the person who started the THREAD is DREAMING of becoming a Pro Pool Player after High School, and trying to eak out a living at Pool, or if they planning on going on to a high level of education?
Thanks Jay, those are some really helpful words, and I'll remember and act on them every time I shoot.
There's another way of asking this. Do you want to make a LIVING playing pool? In other words, do you want to pay for a house, the 3 bedroom brick in the suburbs with the white fence and the flower garden and the dog in the back yard and the little wife and 2 cars and put 3 kids through college and then retire comfortably... all from just playing pool? A lot of where you go from here depends on just what it is you plan to do, and whether or not you really have it in you to do it.
Ruark
Ruark
Well I don't think all of that is necessary. If I made enough money playing pool to sustain myself in a simple little house, then I would be happy because I'd be playing pool. It just seems like thousands of people do it, and it is the best possible way I can think to live my life. If I don't get a nice house, I don't care, as long as I'm doing something I love. Who can say they do something they love as their job?
I'm a much better player than I think I am.
My advise - forget about making a living at this game. It's difficult to do and has little reward for all the effort. Besides, why would you want to make the game you love, a job?
I know it sounds like a cool idea because a lot of us on here have thought about that at some point. What stopped a lot of us was either lack of talent, head not screwed on straight, other obligations (like wife, kids, financial) or maybe just laziness.
Then there is the risk that pool may fade in popularity. What good would being a great player be if there was no market for having great players?
Since you're still young, you have time to find out if you are truely one of the gifted players who can accel at this game and take it to the top level. Most of our greats discovered their talents by the time they finished their teenage years. But even then, I'd think twice about making a living at this game.
Being from Prescott, I'm sure you've run into my old buddy, Glay. He recently moved into town. Tell him hi for me.
I know it sounds like a cool idea because a lot of us on here have thought about that at some point. What stopped a lot of us was either lack of talent, head not screwed on straight, other obligations (like wife, kids, financial) or maybe just laziness.
Then there is the risk that pool may fade in popularity. What good would being a great player be if there was no market for having great players?
Since you're still young, you have time to find out if you are truely one of the gifted players who can accel at this game and take it to the top level. Most of our greats discovered their talents by the time they finished their teenage years. But even then, I'd think twice about making a living at this game.
Being from Prescott, I'm sure you've run into my old buddy, Glay. He recently moved into town. Tell him hi for me.
everybody has brought up some very good advice here, but there are two things that i think are vital which where missed (if im the one who missed somebody mentioning them i apologize)
1. Dont ever stop having FUN. the day you put so much pressure on yourself to be a champion that you no longer enjoy playing, your chances of becoming a champion go down the drain!
2. Dont ever think you are "GOOD ENOUGH" or that you cant get any better. try to get a little bit better everytime you play, even if its just a little more consistent, seeing a diferent pattern, overcoming a shot that you werent comfortable with.. something.
work hard, have fun, good luck!
Tony
1. Dont ever stop having FUN. the day you put so much pressure on yourself to be a champion that you no longer enjoy playing, your chances of becoming a champion go down the drain!
2. Dont ever think you are "GOOD ENOUGH" or that you cant get any better. try to get a little bit better everytime you play, even if its just a little more consistent, seeing a diferent pattern, overcoming a shot that you werent comfortable with.. something.
work hard, have fun, good luck!
Tony
I don't want to sound discouraging, but the truth is there are very few people who actually make a living playing pool. Even most of the top pros have another job that pays the bills to support their game.
Look at the 2009 players money list on AZ. Outside of the top ten, nobody even made $25,000 playing pool. When you take out entry fees, travel, hotels and meals while on the road, that is not very much at all. (I might have thought it was when I was in high school, but trust me, that is not good money)
Play the game because you love it. But get an education, get a job, maybe even a pool related job, and let pool continue to be something you enjoy.
Steve
Peter, FOLLOW YOUR DREAM! I did and somehow I found a way to make a living doing something I loved. There are many directions you can go in the pool world, and being a player is only one of them. I gravitated from playing to being a room owner to directing pro tournaments to promoting my own events to ......... and I could go on for a while. I never got rich but I always made a living at pool, going on 45 years now! It can be done.
NYC cue dude
Banned
Not sure if I understood the original poster quite clearly or not, but he said he has been playing in bars because there are no pool rooms around him?
Tom mentioned in his post, but it should be emphasized, that, IMO, there is no way to determine your potential, and then realize it, without dedicating ALL of your playing time on a 9ft table.
As for what makes a champion, there have been many paths travelled. I know one NYC champion who started as a C player. It took him several years of CONSTANT practice to eventually win a BCA championship. I watched him shoot the SAME shot, over and over, for many HOURS, without stopping, to permanently ingrain it into his muscle memory. Do you have that type of dedication? We are talking about a full blown commitment of time, thought and resources. Additionally, it CAN'T be done with one mentor. IMO, you will need to surround yourself with top flight players AND the very few people out there who teach the game very well. Now, this doesntmean go outand hire a teacher. It requires one of these people actually taking you under their wing. I know MANY, MANY champions. Not just great players, but real champions, and this has pretty much been the one common denominator between them all. My best friend is a former world 9 ball champ and straight pool world champ. He was one ball away from winning the world 8 ball championship too.
He played at a very high level within 2 years. He was coached practically from the start. I'll tell you this, though, for the first few years, he measured his progress through practice, not competing. I was fortunate enough to play him everyday, for over a year, 6-8 hours daily. He taught me everything he knew, as the situations came up. I went from a C player, to a strong B. What holds me back from being a great player? I don't have ANY natural talent. I've worked hard, harder than most, for many years, and I'm just better than average.
Anyway, if you're serious, you MUST first start by playing on 9 footers. Not sure if you have transportation, but it seems your gonna have to travel to a pool hall, play regularly, and meet SOLID players there before you have any chance of even determining your speed, let alone improving.
Rg
Tom mentioned in his post, but it should be emphasized, that, IMO, there is no way to determine your potential, and then realize it, without dedicating ALL of your playing time on a 9ft table.
As for what makes a champion, there have been many paths travelled. I know one NYC champion who started as a C player. It took him several years of CONSTANT practice to eventually win a BCA championship. I watched him shoot the SAME shot, over and over, for many HOURS, without stopping, to permanently ingrain it into his muscle memory. Do you have that type of dedication? We are talking about a full blown commitment of time, thought and resources. Additionally, it CAN'T be done with one mentor. IMO, you will need to surround yourself with top flight players AND the very few people out there who teach the game very well. Now, this doesntmean go outand hire a teacher. It requires one of these people actually taking you under their wing. I know MANY, MANY champions. Not just great players, but real champions, and this has pretty much been the one common denominator between them all. My best friend is a former world 9 ball champ and straight pool world champ. He was one ball away from winning the world 8 ball championship too.
He played at a very high level within 2 years. He was coached practically from the start. I'll tell you this, though, for the first few years, he measured his progress through practice, not competing. I was fortunate enough to play him everyday, for over a year, 6-8 hours daily. He taught me everything he knew, as the situations came up. I went from a C player, to a strong B. What holds me back from being a great player? I don't have ANY natural talent. I've worked hard, harder than most, for many years, and I'm just better than average.
Anyway, if you're serious, you MUST first start by playing on 9 footers. Not sure if you have transportation, but it seems your gonna have to travel to a pool hall, play regularly, and meet SOLID players there before you have any chance of even determining your speed, let alone improving.
Rg
Peter,
If you want to make a living as a pool player, you will probably need at to make at least 25K a year to cover your bills (housing, health care, utilities, travel, "rainy day fund," retirement funds, et cetera). As the AZB money leader board shows, most players under the top 20 make less than 22K/year playing pool. If you look at the full player list, some of the best players in pool have made less than 20K so far this year. Can you live on that? Probably not.
Continue your development as a pool player. Take lessons, find a mentor and play in tournaments. Don't put all your eggs into one basket. First learn a trade or go to college and get a job in your chosen field. If becoming a pool player doesn't work out, you'll still have your degree or trade and practical job skills to fall back on.
If you want to make a living as a pool player, you will probably need at to make at least 25K a year to cover your bills (housing, health care, utilities, travel, "rainy day fund," retirement funds, et cetera). As the AZB money leader board shows, most players under the top 20 make less than 22K/year playing pool. If you look at the full player list, some of the best players in pool have made less than 20K so far this year. Can you live on that? Probably not.
Continue your development as a pool player. Take lessons, find a mentor and play in tournaments. Don't put all your eggs into one basket. First learn a trade or go to college and get a job in your chosen field. If becoming a pool player doesn't work out, you'll still have your degree or trade and practical job skills to fall back on.
Progression of becoming a player hummmmmmm,
First pool is all about friends and fun, competition, getting better by more play time, still getting better and winning, being obsessed too addicted to can't stop, to years start flying by to, next reading/learning more competition to realizing it takes all your time and now am I willing to give so much time but get so little $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and still be happy to wanting a family and will my girlfriend want to take it to the next level with family if I'm a pool player, but the addiction never really goes away and it all comes full circle again, damn, why didn't I love golf as much the dollars are better......(the action is too slow for me that's why), good luck, if its an obsession and you can play for 50-70 hours a week for years and still can't get enough then your on your way to Possibly becoming a very good player, to become a great player, takes allot more work, in anything, again, good luck.
First pool is all about friends and fun, competition, getting better by more play time, still getting better and winning, being obsessed too addicted to can't stop, to years start flying by to, next reading/learning more competition to realizing it takes all your time and now am I willing to give so much time but get so little $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and still be happy to wanting a family and will my girlfriend want to take it to the next level with family if I'm a pool player, but the addiction never really goes away and it all comes full circle again, damn, why didn't I love golf as much the dollars are better......(the action is too slow for me that's why), good luck, if its an obsession and you can play for 50-70 hours a week for years and still can't get enough then your on your way to Possibly becoming a very good player, to become a great player, takes allot more work, in anything, again, good luck.