What The ABP Should Do......

beav99_4life said:
You have to take into account who is starting those threads and what they really add to the forums.
Click to expand...

I just like the thought of having an official drink and the whole coincidence of it and this thread being created.

So I went back to try and follow whats been happening...I have been missing out of course but, it seems all this can be very uniting and productive. As much as some people may dislike their actions thus far, there seems to be just as much that wants them to succeed. It would be nice to get an official drink.
 
JCIN said:
With all the recent to do surrounding the ABP and various associated topics I have been thinking about the idea of a player organization and the challenges it faces. A few points that have come to mind are:

- If the goal is a unified front to collectively bargain for members interests then in business matters pertaining to the those interests it is vitally important to convey a coherent, concise and consistent message detailing the objectives and reasoning of the group.

Thats a fancy way of saying "Pick a mouthpiece and everyone else shut up." I think the use of of the ABP account on this forum by an unknown number of people shows what not following the above principle can do to undermine public support for a group effort. By having ONE spokesperson and having everything come through them consistently it allows for people to easily tell when something is coming from the group versus an individual member. This not only appears professional but it gives credibility to the messages that are released by this spokesperson.

- Promote the value added aspect of a players organization to fans and promoters.

In other words "You catch more flys with honey than vinegar." A group would be best served by showcasing the positive aspects of working with them. For example: Explain to promoters that by working with the group and using things such as their seeding process and other points they want to see in the event that the promoter will gain value for his event.

Ways to demonstrate this value:

1.Guaranteeing all players in the group will be at the event and any member who can not attend due to a valid reason will not play in any events on the dates of the promoters event.

2. Have the group and its members actively and demonstrably help the promoter publicize the event through group and individual networks. Think what having 30 top players all blast facebook, twitter and email contacts with news about an event could add for a promoter. It's not inconsequential. But for it to really mean something it would have to be organized and consistent.

3. Provide promoters with access to group partners and sponsors. Mike Janis is probably the best in the world at this. When someone signs up to do one of his events they automatically get access to his network of sponsors and companies that he has put together to add value. Another example would be for a group to make strategic alliances with a table company, cloth company and things of that nature so they could provide a one stop shop for promoters. This is not to say that those companies would be exclusive. It is very important to not restrict promoters opportunities for sponsorship by having exclusive requirements on brands of equipment. The option should be there though for a promoter to use if they see fit.

4. Actively and honestly do the small things needed to grow the fan base at a grass roots level. This is a very simple thing but is so often either done poorly or neglected all together. Simple things like signing autographs, playing free challenge matches and pro-am events all matter but only if done as part of a greater strategic initiative to accomplish the goal of having individual fans leave with the impression "Hey these guys are pretty cool. Next time I get the chance to see them I am going to come back." Two examples of groups where this was embedded in the culture are NASCAR and Skateboarding. Both grew from small niche sports beginning with grass roots PR campaigns that are carried through to this day.

There are many more points where a group could add value to fans and promoters. The key is to stress the positive aspects of working with a group. Everyone knows that the groups big stick is a boycott. There is no need to go waving that stick around in public. Much better to have the people who pay your salary to be focused on the carrot.

- If you can't BE organized at least ACT organized.

It is hard as hell to get ten people to agree on anything let alone twenty to forty people who made a living in a dog eat dog individual sport such as pool. Accept that fact and only make statements on things in which the group will stand behind one hundred percent. There is no need to overreach. As soon as the defections start it is essentially over for the group at such an early stage.

-Know who is in the foxhole with you.

In order to be taken seriously a group must have an unshakeable knowledge about who is in the group and the role they play. If this does not happen the group will fail under stress. Be sure the people you say you represent know you are using their name and have an understanding of the the choices and statements being made in their name.

Finally...

- It's a small world after all.....

Pro pool in the U.S. is a tiny world. A group should do their best to leverage all the contacts and outside resources available to it. Do not be afraid to ask for guidance, advice or support. You don't have to take it but just the fact that a group is open to it will build bridges that can open doors and smooth the way for future. Do not be quick to judge people "against the players" if they do not tell you what you want to hear. Take value from as many opinions and statements as you can in order to constantly reshape and sharpen your message with the end goal always being to improve the lot of group members and add value to the fans.

That pretty much sums up my manifesto on group dynamics in the pool world. I would be interested in any opinions, additions or flame posts anyone may have.
Click to expand...



This is a great post, and all of the points you addressed are important for any organization. There is always room to modify rules when new idea's are brought forward that are worthy of consideration. I also agree it will be difficult to get any number of group members to agree on any subject, but there must be a leadership put in place that is unsympathetic / unbiased when making decisions. The only system that will work long term will be a majority rules system when final decisions are made concerning the group as a whole. Each member of such a group will have an equal vote and in the event of a split decision the groups President will have the authority to make the final decision or a drawing based upon the decision will be used and which ever sides opinion wins the draw is final.

In effect what needs to happen is the group as a group by vote must establish a set of it's memberships by laws which each member must sign as part of group membership. This democratic method which involves all group participants is the only way to ensure that each member has a voice and can be hear.

Last, elections of new leadership should also be part of the agenda on an annual basis, and there should be a term in which any member can hold any given position in the groups leadership. I think this would solve many of the problems we have been seeing the last few day's.

I applaud the effort you put into your post above, it is a great place to start. Improvement will only come from trial and error, but when some one speaks they must be speaking for the entire group, anything else will lead to disaster and public embarrassment like what has happened here over the last few days.

JIMO
 
They need to pursue a sponsor that is willing to give a percentage of sales to support their organization. In return, they will do whatever it takes to promote the product.

Hunt down the CEO of that sponser, show them your portfolio.....oh man we got a long way to go.
 
This just in!

Johnny Archer to represent .........product by tattoing said name on his shoulder if they promise to give % to help build schools in developing countries. Bring it! j/k....?
 
JCIN said:
With all the recent to do surrounding the ABP and various associated topics I have been thinking about the idea of a player organization and the challenges it faces. A few points that have come to mind are:

- If the goal is a unified front to collectively bargain for members interests then in business matters pertaining to the those interests it is vitally important to convey a coherent, concise and consistent message detailing the objectives and reasoning of the group.

Thats a fancy way of saying "Pick a mouthpiece and everyone else shut up." I think the use of of the ABP account on this forum by an unknown number of people shows what not following the above principle can do to undermine public support for a group effort. By having ONE spokesperson and having everything come through them consistently it allows for people to easily tell when something is coming from the group versus an individual member. This not only appears professional but it gives credibility to the messages that are released by this spokesperson.

- Promote the value added aspect of a players organization to fans and promoters.

In other words "You catch more flys with honey than vinegar." A group would be best served by showcasing the positive aspects of working with them. For example: Explain to promoters that by working with the group and using things such as their seeding process and other points they want to see in the event that the promoter will gain value for his event.

Ways to demonstrate this value:

1.Guaranteeing all players in the group will be at the event and any member who can not attend due to a valid reason will not play in any events on the dates of the promoters event.

2. Have the group and its members actively and demonstrably help the promoter publicize the event through group and individual networks. Think what having 30 top players all blast facebook, twitter and email contacts with news about an event could add for a promoter. It's not inconsequential. But for it to really mean something it would have to be organized and consistent.

3. Provide promoters with access to group partners and sponsors. Mike Janis is probably the best in the world at this. When someone signs up to do one of his events they automatically get access to his network of sponsors and companies that he has put together to add value. Another example would be for a group to make strategic alliances with a table company, cloth company and things of that nature so they could provide a one stop shop for promoters. This is not to say that those companies would be exclusive. It is very important to not restrict promoters opportunities for sponsorship by having exclusive requirements on brands of equipment. The option should be there though for a promoter to use if they see fit.

4. Actively and honestly do the small things needed to grow the fan base at a grass roots level. This is a very simple thing but is so often either done poorly or neglected all together. Simple things like signing autographs, playing free challenge matches and pro-am events all matter but only if done as part of a greater strategic initiative to accomplish the goal of having individual fans leave with the impression "Hey these guys are pretty cool. Next time I get the chance to see them I am going to come back." Two examples of groups where this was embedded in the culture are NASCAR and Skateboarding. Both grew from small niche sports beginning with grass roots PR campaigns that are carried through to this day.

There are many more points where a group could add value to fans and promoters. The key is to stress the positive aspects of working with a group. Everyone knows that the groups big stick is a boycott. There is no need to go waving that stick around in public. Much better to have the people who pay your salary to be focused on the carrot.

- If you can't BE organized at least ACT organized.

It is hard as hell to get ten people to agree on anything let alone twenty to forty people who made a living in a dog eat dog individual sport such as pool. Accept that fact and only make statements on things in which the group will stand behind one hundred percent. There is no need to overreach. As soon as the defections start it is essentially over for the group at such an early stage.

-Know who is in the foxhole with you.

In order to be taken seriously a group must have an unshakeable knowledge about who is in the group and the role they play. If this does not happen the group will fail under stress. Be sure the people you say you represent know you are using their name and have an understanding of the the choices and statements being made in their name.

Finally...

- It's a small world after all.....

Pro pool in the U.S. is a tiny world. A group should do their best to leverage all the contacts and outside resources available to it. Do not be afraid to ask for guidance, advice or support. You don't have to take it but just the fact that a group is open to it will build bridges that can open doors and smooth the way for future. Do not be quick to judge people "against the players" if they do not tell you what you want to hear. Take value from as many opinions and statements as you can in order to constantly reshape and sharpen your message with the end goal always being to improve the lot of group members and add value to the fans.

That pretty much sums up my manifesto on group dynamics in the pool world. I would be interested in any opinions, additions or flame posts anyone may have.
Click to expand...


Good thoughts.

One other thing: I think for an organization like this to fly each participant needs to have some skin in the game, maybe a $5K membership fee. It'd give them some operating monies too.

Lou Figueroa
 
In My Town, Ben Affleck wouldn't try that shit! If you understand that that's all you need to know. ABP is on some other shit.
 
JCIN said:
With all the recent to do surrounding the ABP and various associated topics I have been thinking about the idea of a player organization and the challenges it faces. A few points that have come to mind are:

- If the goal is a unified front to collectively bargain for members interests then in business matters pertaining to the those interests it is vitally important to convey a coherent, concise and consistent message detailing the objectives and reasoning of the group.

Thats a fancy way of saying "Pick a mouthpiece and everyone else shut up." I think the use of of the ABP account on this forum by an unknown number of people shows what not following the above principle can do to undermine public support for a group effort. By having ONE spokesperson and having everything come through them consistently it allows for people to easily tell when something is coming from the group versus an individual member. This not only appears professional but it gives credibility to the messages that are released by this spokesperson.

- Promote the value added aspect of a players organization to fans and promoters.

In other words "You catch more flys with honey than vinegar." A group would be best served by showcasing the positive aspects of working with them. For example: Explain to promoters that by working with the group and using things such as their seeding process and other points they want to see in the event that the promoter will gain value for his event.

Ways to demonstrate this value:

1.Guaranteeing all players in the group will be at the event and any member who can not attend due to a valid reason will not play in any events on the dates of the promoters event.

2. Have the group and its members actively and demonstrably help the promoter publicize the event through group and individual networks. Think what having 30 top players all blast facebook, twitter and email contacts with news about an event could add for a promoter. It's not inconsequential. But for it to really mean something it would have to be organized and consistent.

3. Provide promoters with access to group partners and sponsors. Mike Janis is probably the best in the world at this. When someone signs up to do one of his events they automatically get access to his network of sponsors and companies that he has put together to add value. Another example would be for a group to make strategic alliances with a table company, cloth company and things of that nature so they could provide a one stop shop for promoters. This is not to say that those companies would be exclusive. It is very important to not restrict promoters opportunities for sponsorship by having exclusive requirements on brands of equipment. The option should be there though for a promoter to use if they see fit.

4. Actively and honestly do the small things needed to grow the fan base at a grass roots level. This is a very simple thing but is so often either done poorly or neglected all together. Simple things like signing autographs, playing free challenge matches and pro-am events all matter but only if done as part of a greater strategic initiative to accomplish the goal of having individual fans leave with the impression "Hey these guys are pretty cool. Next time I get the chance to see them I am going to come back." Two examples of groups where this was embedded in the culture are NASCAR and Skateboarding. Both grew from small niche sports beginning with grass roots PR campaigns that are carried through to this day.

There are many more points where a group could add value to fans and promoters. The key is to stress the positive aspects of working with a group. Everyone knows that the groups big stick is a boycott. There is no need to go waving that stick around in public. Much better to have the people who pay your salary to be focused on the carrot.

- If you can't BE organized at least ACT organized.

It is hard as hell to get ten people to agree on anything let alone twenty to forty people who made a living in a dog eat dog individual sport such as pool. Accept that fact and only make statements on things in which the group will stand behind one hundred percent. There is no need to overreach. As soon as the defections start it is essentially over for the group at such an early stage.

-Know who is in the foxhole with you.

In order to be taken seriously a group must have an unshakeable knowledge about who is in the group and the role they play. If this does not happen the group will fail under stress. Be sure the people you say you represent know you are using their name and have an understanding of the the choices and statements being made in their name.

Finally...

- It's a small world after all.....

Pro pool in the U.S. is a tiny world. A group should do their best to leverage all the contacts and outside resources available to it. Do not be afraid to ask for guidance, advice or support. You don't have to take it but just the fact that a group is open to it will build bridges that can open doors and smooth the way for future. Do not be quick to judge people "against the players" if they do not tell you what you want to hear. Take value from as many opinions and statements as you can in order to constantly reshape and sharpen your message with the end goal always being to improve the lot of group members and add value to the fans.

That pretty much sums up my manifesto on group dynamics in the pool world. I would be interested in any opinions, additions or flame posts anyone may have.
Click to expand...

Take a deep bow for a well-judged, well-written post, JCIN.
 
vasilios said:
JCIN

so what do they have to offer to a tournament besides playing pool?
they have little to no pull for selling tickets to a tournament. if you put
Johnny,Mika,Alex and Ralph on the busiest street corner in New York how
many autographs do you think they would get asked for in a 4 hour period.
do you think any of the news media would notice them and ask for a story.
pool players do to much hit and run to have a fan club.do you think
2 or 3 players will go by a local radio station and ask to get on the air to let
the locals know they are there and sell the tourny.

good post JCIN, i appreciate what you are trying to do for pool!

bill
Click to expand...
Good post, the players themselves do nothing to promote the game. Well there are some that do and guess what??? They do get noticed by outsiders. There certainly could be a lot more outward efforts in pro pool.
 
K.Mcphee...I think that if you look at the "big picture", there is nobody here who wouldn't like to see the pro players making a decent living. The way the ABP is "demanding" things to be put in their favor is what is turning off most of us. Get a player organization...get a leader who is a business person (not a pro poolplayer)...and get an agenda in line, that meets the expectations of the group (the WHOLE group).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

K.Mcphee said:
As much as some people may dislike their actions thus far, there seems to be just as much that wants them to succeed.
Click to expand...
 
lfigueroa said:
... One other thing: I think for an organization like this to fly each participant needs to have some skin in the game, maybe a $5K membership fee. It'd give them some operating monies too. ...
Click to expand...
I think that could work only if the players saw at least that much coming back in increased prizes/sponsorships/appearance fees almost immediately.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think that could work only if the players saw at least that much coming back in increased prizes/sponsorships/appearance fees almost immediately.
Click to expand...

The IPT initially wanted a $2,000 membership fee, but they quickly discounted that and let the players join for $1 after a lot of folks voiced concern about giving $2,000 to a then-unknown entity.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
There are plenty of ways a players group can help promote an event. Besides getting the word out to their fans through FB, Twitter, emails, blogs, and their own websites I can see member pros coming to the venue city a couple of days in advance and having groups of three or four hit different pool halls in the town for the couple of nights before the event to drum up interest, maybe setting up challenge matches or short exhibitions, glad handing with league players, maybe even visit a couple of Boys Clubs to do some trick shots and perhaps the local news media would get interested.

---

Justin, very good post. And I notice that the ABP hasn't done any of the stuff you suggest that I can think of.
Click to expand...

The problem with this is it requires a leap of faith on the pros side to believe that doing these type of things without instant gratification will pay off in the long run.

The attitude as it comes across to me is that they do not want to do anything that does not have instant benefit to them .

I don't want to hijack Justin's thread so I will start another and go into more detail.

R
 
RShellhouse said:
The problem with this is it requires a leap of faith on the pros side to believe that doing these type of things without instant gratification will pay off in the long run.

The attitude as it comes across to me is that they do not want to do anything that does not have instant benefit to them .

I don't want to hijack Justin's thread so I will start another and go into more detail.

R
Click to expand...

The pros need to leap on something. That being said, there has been a lot of ideas thrown around that make sense but nobody to pick up the ball and run with it. Justin has laid out some pretty sound advice, I seen a recent thread of The WPPPC with people trying to breath life back into our sport that is critical. The APB needs to rethink their strategy get professional help for the "Professinal Player organization". What JA and crew strated was not a bad thing, Great intentions, BAD execution so far I hope they work out the flaws in the organization and hope that BB and the ABP come to some kind of agreement that works out for all. JMHO

Jim Baker
 
JCIN said:
With all the recent to do surrounding the ABP and various associated topics I have been thinking about the idea of a player organization and the challenges it faces. A few points that have come to mind are:

- If the goal is a unified front to collectively bargain for members interests then in business matters pertaining to the those interests it is vitally important to convey a coherent, concise and consistent message detailing the objectives and reasoning of the group.

Thats a fancy way of saying "Pick a mouthpiece and everyone else shut up." I think the use of of the ABP account on this forum by an unknown number of people shows what not following the above principle can do to undermine public support for a group effort. By having ONE spokesperson and having everything come through them consistently it allows for people to easily tell when something is coming from the group versus an individual member. This not only appears professional but it gives credibility to the messages that are released by this spokesperson.

- Promote the value added aspect of a players organization to fans and promoters.

In other words "You catch more flys with honey than vinegar." A group would be best served by showcasing the positive aspects of working with them. For example: Explain to promoters that by working with the group and using things such as their seeding process and other points they want to see in the event that the promoter will gain value for his event.

Ways to demonstrate this value:

1.Guaranteeing all players in the group will be at the event and any member who can not attend due to a valid reason will not play in any events on the dates of the promoters event.

2. Have the group and its members actively and demonstrably help the promoter publicize the event through group and individual networks. Think what having 30 top players all blast facebook, twitter and email contacts with news about an event could add for a promoter. It's not inconsequential. But for it to really mean something it would have to be organized and consistent.

3. Provide promoters with access to group partners and sponsors. Mike Janis is probably the best in the world at this. When someone signs up to do one of his events they automatically get access to his network of sponsors and companies that he has put together to add value. Another example would be for a group to make strategic alliances with a table company, cloth company and things of that nature so they could provide a one stop shop for promoters. This is not to say that those companies would be exclusive. It is very important to not restrict promoters opportunities for sponsorship by having exclusive requirements on brands of equipment. The option should be there though for a promoter to use if they see fit.

4. Actively and honestly do the small things needed to grow the fan base at a grass roots level. This is a very simple thing but is so often either done poorly or neglected all together. Simple things like signing autographs, playing free challenge matches and pro-am events all matter but only if done as part of a greater strategic initiative to accomplish the goal of having individual fans leave with the impression "Hey these guys are pretty cool. Next time I get the chance to see them I am going to come back." Two examples of groups where this was embedded in the culture are NASCAR and Skateboarding. Both grew from small niche sports beginning with grass roots PR campaigns that are carried through to this day.

There are many more points where a group could add value to fans and promoters. The key is to stress the positive aspects of working with a group. Everyone knows that the groups big stick is a boycott. There is no need to go waving that stick around in public. Much better to have the people who pay your salary to be focused on the carrot.

- If you can't BE organized at least ACT organized.

It is hard as hell to get ten people to agree on anything let alone twenty to forty people who made a living in a dog eat dog individual sport such as pool. Accept that fact and only make statements on things in which the group will stand behind one hundred percent. There is no need to overreach. As soon as the defections start it is essentially over for the group at such an early stage.

-Know who is in the foxhole with you.

In order to be taken seriously a group must have an unshakeable knowledge about who is in the group and the role they play. If this does not happen the group will fail under stress. Be sure the people you say you represent know you are using their name and have an understanding of the the choices and statements being made in their name.

Finally...

- It's a small world after all.....

Pro pool in the U.S. is a tiny world. A group should do their best to leverage all the contacts and outside resources available to it. Do not be afraid to ask for guidance, advice or support. You don't have to take it but just the fact that a group is open to it will build bridges that can open doors and smooth the way for future. Do not be quick to judge people "against the players" if they do not tell you what you want to hear. Take value from as many opinions and statements as you can in order to constantly reshape and sharpen your message with the end goal always being to improve the lot of group members and add value to the fans.

That pretty much sums up my manifesto on group dynamics in the pool world. I would be interested in any opinions, additions or flame posts anyone may have.
Click to expand...

Thought it was time to bump the original post.
What the ABP needs is a spokesman like Justin.

..but he's got other fish to fry...and I hope he does well.
Pool is still in the spot golf used to be in...when golf pros were known
as 'golf bums' and couldn't eat in the club house.
I feel some of the efforts to elevate this game have been premature.
The game needs a better foundation...the players aren't ready for the
big time.We need more talent and dedication, more gracefullness from
the players, and honor has to be the 'norm'...not something so unusual
that it is to be lauded.

TAR is one way of building this foundation.
 
JCIN, Great logical and valid items.

Why would the ABP not consider just a few of these items?

I am all for pool progressing into the Professional ranks like that of other Professional sports and players.

Maybe the Player's ORG will be the catalyst to make the promoters stop and think about the product they are trying to promote and how to best make sure that the product will be viewed as what the audience and sponsors want.

Wouldn't it be great if the US Open 9 Ball event had 256 players for a full field and was Standing Room Only for the entire event? Vendors sold out all their wares and hotels were sold out during the tournament?

Everyone wins.
 
JoeyA said:
Perspicacious!
Click to expand...

Perspicacious????
Reminds me of woofin' with Pittsburgh John years ago.
He told me I was starting to play one-pocket 'cause I didn't want to 'shoot
at my hole'.
I said"John, when it comes to us making a game at 9 or 10 ball where you
gotta fire them in, you have been the more reticent."
John said "RETICENT?..that's it, if you're gonna use them 14 carat words on
me, we aint doin' nutin'!"

regards
pt..<..who thinks Joey swallowed a thesaurus..:smile:
 
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