Whats the deal with Micarta ferulles?

Really? Did I strike a nerve? Are you out to rob folks, glorify your product in order to drive price up & fool them? Because that's what's been going on with numerous sellers over a period of several years now. People are selling something else as "old micarta" and charging what the legitimate stuff actually costs. That's what I referenced. If it hit home with you, then it's on you & you can deal with it. I was very general about what I said, but for some reason you feel it's all about you.

This is another perfect example of your vendetta. I'm not even sure why. I think I pissed you off once because I told you I wouldn't play kiss ass games. That's when you were kissing my ass the way you kiss Joey's ass now, and it annoyed me. Ever since then, you've been an ass, following me around trying to discredit or dig some kind of make believe dirt to show everybody how much of a screw-up I am. Your man crush is getting a bit disturbing at this point. Your flirting is turning in to harassment. I know i'm a strapping young lad, and I can understand why a sicko old man would be tempted to stalk me, but for real it's going too far.




As I said, if I were you I would be practicing damage control. Instead you are out of control. Hopefully someday when you grow up you will see things a little clearer. Until then keep spinning Eric falsehoods and BS. BTW your not getting away with it but of corse you can't see that.

32,948 views on a The Eric Crisp post about your fine character whereby you ranted and justified your actions that were indefensible by any standard. Nice going Eric your parents should be proud of you. If I had anything against you I could have weighed in when you were being attacked by others giving testimony. I remained tacit and stayed away.

Those 32,948 views will haunt you for a long time and until you realize that you have an anger problem. From my seat it is getting worse as you are always trolling for a fight and demand to be viewed as an authority, constantly! HMMMM!

I have learned to respect Joey since I learned he is from another culture and I now understand his personality. Yea, I like him now. We don't agree on everything but there is more respect going on back and forth these days. Funny I was trying to do that same with you but your just keep trying to be a jerk. Your reference to my kissing your ass is reference to my trying to mend a bridge that was broke. Funny how you view someone reaching out their hand as them being your B***h or something similar in your mind. That's called immaturity personified. Why? Because as I said, your not too smart!

The best thing I can do for you is to recommend Dale Carnagie's book. You won't read it I am sure, but if you did, it would change your life. There is something it teaches about sincerity and truthfulness in business relationships that is universal in all relationships.

Over and Out Forever
 
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micarta001.jpg

Indeed, this is the stuff I'd pay top dollar for. Compare to the middle of the three in this pic:

micarta comparison.jpg

I've tried the others, not the same, agree it may be a matter of personal preference to some (not to me, of course, the difference isn't subtle), but note the "other" Micartas don't significantly differ in feel from more modern, widely available, inexpensive ferrule materials. Anyone want to sell me some real Westinghouse Micarta ferrules, let me know. Cheers!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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Since there are so many knowledgeable people posting to this thread is this the real deal of something else. This material was purchased from Schon by a Local Cue Maker in 1988. I talked the gentleman out of few pieces of it, the ferrules are capped and threaded. I have put one on a Early R-Series Schon that had a cracked ferrule, which appeared to be made from the same material. It screwed right on the shafts tenon and fit perfectly with no modification.


1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

Thanks in advance for any information on this material, if anyones would like better photo's I will provide them.

Oh and by the way, this material is not For Sale. I have no intention of selling it, I plan to use it on a cue for myself in the future.
 
Indeed, this is the stuff I'd pay top dollar for. Compare to the middle of the three in this pic:

I've tried the others, not the same, agree it may be a matter of personal preference to some (not to me, of course, the difference isn't subtle), but note the "other" Micartas don't significantly differ in feel from more modern, widely available, inexpensive ferrule materials. Anyone want to sell me some real Westinghouse Micarta ferrules, let me know. Cheers!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________


Deleted double post
 
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Indeed, this is the stuff I'd pay top dollar for. Compare to the middle of the three in this pic:

View attachment 225970

I've tried the others, not the same, agree it may be a matter of personal preference to some (not to me, of course, the difference isn't subtle), but note the "other" Micartas don't significantly differ in feel from more modern, widely available, inexpensive ferrule materials. Anyone want to sell me some real Westinghouse Micarta ferrules, let me know. Cheers!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti



Greeting to you also, thanks for the display of photo's I always like to learn something new. I also like the hit of a Macarta Ferrule, currently I am using some of the material that has been supplied by Masonh. I recently received another shipment from him and this time he also had some of the White material along with the Yellow. I do not know what they are calling the White Material but it really Machines and hits great. I put a ferrule of it on one my shafts and I really like it.

Thanks again for taking the time to assemble your post to this thread, I really enjoyed the information you provided.
 
This thread should be stickied, to warn unsupecting buyers of supposed "real deal old micarta", "stuff of fabled legends", or whatever else thieves use to descibe, and sell, lesser material, as the real thing.:thumbup:

Good lookin out, Eric:thumbup:
 
I have a Schon shaft with SOME kind of Micarta on it.

It certainly has a little grain to it,but oddly enough,it isn't nearly as yellow as some are.

I've mentioned this,and have no idea who to believe,but a well-respected regular on Practical Machinist says he worked for Westinghouse and according to him,NONE of the old stuff had Asbestos in it.

I mentioned the stuff there,the reason we all covet it,and what I (we) was (were) led to believe was the reason it was no longer made,and he was quick as shit to correct me.

To be honest,I wouldn't want to even try to install it if there was a chance it would split when tapping it.

I WOULD however,be interested in some of the stuff that is in the shaft on top of the Dzuricky photo back on page 3 as well as Mason's. Tommy D.
 
I have a Schon shaft with SOME kind of Micarta on it.

It certainly has a little grain to it,but oddly enough,it isn't nearly as yellow as some are.

I've mentioned this,and have no idea who to believe,but a well-respected regular on Practical Machinist says he worked for Westinghouse and according to him,NONE of the old stuff had Asbestos in it.

I mentioned the stuff there,the reason we all covet it,and what I (we) was (were) led to believe was the reason it was no longer made,and he was quick as shit to correct me.

To be honest,I wouldn't want to even try to install it if there was a chance it would split when tapping it.

I WOULD however,be interested in some of the stuff that is in the shaft on top of the Dzuricky photo back on page 3 as well as Mason's. Tommy D.
I have one Schon old ferrule. Capped and threaded. It looks cleaner than the old yellow micarta.
I also have Mason micarta. It's a lot harder than Schonarta or old yellow ones. Mason's rods machine better than the tubes.
Juma I think comes really close to the old micarta in characteristics more than the Masoncarta.
 
I have a Schon shaft with SOME kind of Micarta on it.

It certainly has a little grain to it,but oddly enough,it isn't nearly as yellow as some are.

I've mentioned this,and have no idea who to believe,but a well-respected regular on Practical Machinist says he worked for Westinghouse and according to him,NONE of the old stuff had Asbestos in it.

I mentioned the stuff there,the reason we all covet it,and what I (we) was (were) led to believe was the reason it was no longer made,and he was quick as shit to correct me.

To be honest,I wouldn't want to even try to install it if there was a chance it would split when tapping it.

I WOULD however,be interested in some of the stuff that is in the shaft on top of the Dzuricky photo back on page 3 as well as Mason's. Tommy D.

That is true; it did not contain Asbestos. It was a laminated paper reinforced epoxy resin.

EDIT: I don't know if you all remember a member here by the name of Percy, or Knifemaker, but he was selling real micarta for $25 bucks a ferrule.

I'll buy if anyone has any left.

Josh
 
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I wish I had more.
I just made two shafts with customer supplied micarta.
Such a beautiful hit.
I love it with a milk dud or old Kamui MS.
They just have the blend I love.
I swear it shoots straighter but it could be mental.

I want some of this micarta too.
 
Hi Craig,

A great read and very good info to share.

For the record, the GE micarta I posted was made in the 60s /70s as insulator material for the power grid and has asbestos in it. I explained in detail that it was not Westinghouse and I was not trying to sell it here. I also explained in detail the difference between the Westingouse and the micarta I use more than once because the thread is about micarta, that's all.

For the record, I don't wish to argue, but have to protect my reputation when someone tries to changes the subject and starts making innuendos that there are those who are trying to rip people off and such right behind my posts. Or things like there is only one micarta, over and over. There are more than one source of asbestos micartas. Anyone who has any experience in history concerning cue making understands what the Westinghouse stuff is and what it looks like. Anyone who has experience with other asbestos micartas should be able to post their experience without have to put on armor and raise a sword, JMO.

For the record, asbestos Micarta is some very interesting material to work with and play pool with. If you are dealing with it be very careful and keep it wet when cutting and wear a mask and take a many safety precautions as possible.

This is the message that we should be sharing and not arguing about.

I apologize to the OP for being part of the little side show and pissing match but shit happens sometimes on the forum.

Craig you are a diplomat and thanks for sharing this vital info concerning safety.

Rick
 
Hi Craig,

A great read and very good info to share.

For the record, the GE micarta I posted was made in the 60s /70s as insulator material for the power grid and has asbestos in it. I explained in detail that it was not Westinghouse and I was not trying to sell it here. I also explained in detail the difference between the Westingouse and the micarta I use more than once because the thread is about micarta, that's all.

For the record, I don't wish to argue, but have to protect my reputation when someone tries to changes the subject and starts making innuendos that there are those who are trying to rip people off and such right behind my posts. Or things like there is only one micarta, over and over. There are more than one source of asbestos micartas. Anyone who has any experience in history concerning cue making understands what the Westinghouse stuff is and what it looks like. Anyone who has experience with other asbestos micartas should be able to post their experience without have to put on armor and raise a sword, JMO.

For the record, asbestos Micarta is some very interesting material to work with and play pool with. If you are dealing with it be very careful and keep it wet when cutting and wear a mask and take a many safety precautions as possible.

This is the message that we should be sharing and not arguing about.

I apologize to the OP for being part of the little side show and pissing match but shit happens sometimes on the forum.

Craig you are a diplomat and thanks for sharing this vital info concerning safety.

Rick

From my perspective, there is no argument worth worrying about. There are clearly several materials referred to as Micarta, yet there is only one that old-timey players like myself will pay top dollar for, because it is indeed exceptional, so much so that not everyone will like it. But it's no longer produced and rare, so its almost-unobtainability justifies the price to those who insist on using it. As to the other, harder, visibly more "canvas"-type Micartas, I'm sure there are players who like those, but the fact remains, they don't much differ in hit and feel from inexpensive, widely available materials such as linen melamine and the like. If those "other" Micartas are rare and sought-after as well, and people are ready to pay top dollar for them, that's fine with me - after all, everyone is free to spend their hard-earned cash any way they like. What would not be fine with me is if someone sold me any of those canvas-type materials (whatever they're called, I don't care) for the old, with age yellowing Westinghouse paper Micarta that looks almost like a naturally grown material (see pics). Then, and only then, the patient old little Swiss dude would turn argumentative. 'Nuff said…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
Not selling it here?
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=237072&highlight=micarta
Not only were you selling it here, you were selling it for far more than i have ever heard of the real westinghouse being sold for. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, buyer beware and all, but you have to admit when it comes to micarta, people looking for it are looking for the one kind, and while you state yours is GE, you also refer to it as the real deal, and alot of folks don't know the difference. I have owned more cues than i can remember with real westinghouse on them, and have still been bamboozeled more than once when it comes to the stuff. My fault for being ignorant, and trusting, i know. Still........ Back in the day, when it was readily available, i don't remember it ever being even close to as popular as ivory, and i've personally had more micarta ferrules replaced with ivory, than i care to remember, and knew many other people that did the same. Part of me says kudos to you if you can find suckers that'll pay $70 a piece for the GE stuff, and the other part says, WOW, what a crook.
Don't feel bad, i feel the same way when i put gas in the car, or even buy a gallon of milk these days. F'n crooks, lol:D
 
Not selling it here?
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=237072&highlight=micarta
Not only were you selling it here, you were selling it for far more than i have ever heard of the real westinghouse being sold for. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, buyer beware and all, but you have to admit when it comes to micarta, people looking for it are looking for the one kind, and while you state yours is GE, you also refer to it as the real deal, and alot of folks don't know the difference. I have owned more cues than i can remember with real westinghouse on them, and have still been bamboozeled more than once when it comes to the stuff. My fault for being ignorant, and trusting, i know. Still........ Back in the day, when it was readily available, i don't remember it ever being even close to as popular as ivory, and i've personally had more micarta ferrules replaced with ivory, than i care to remember, and knew many other people that did the same. Part of me says kudos to you if you can find suckers that'll pay $70 a piece for the GE stuff, and the other part says, WOW, what a crook.
Don't feel bad, i feel the same way when i put gas in the car, or even buy a gallon of milk these days. F'n crooks, lol:D

Couldn't agree less: it clearly says in that ad that it's not the Westinghouse flat-laminated paper Micarta, so if anyone wants to pay so much for something that's clearly advertised as something else, let them…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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Not selling it here?
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=237072&highlight=micarta
Not only were you selling it here, you were selling it for far more than i have ever heard of the real westinghouse being sold for. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, buyer beware and all, but you have to admit when it comes to micarta, people looking for it are looking for the one kind, and while you state yours is GE, you also refer to it as the real deal, and alot of folks don't know the difference. I have owned more cues than i can remember with real westinghouse on them, and have still been bamboozeled more than once when it comes to the stuff. My fault for being ignorant, and trusting, i know. Still........ Back in the day, when it was readily available, i don't remember it ever being even close to as popular as ivory, and i've personally had more micarta ferrules replaced with ivory, than i care to remember, and knew many other people that did the same. Part of me says kudos to you if you can find suckers that'll pay $70 a piece for the GE stuff, and the other part says, WOW, what a crook.
Don't feel bad, i feel the same way when i put gas in the car, or even buy a gallon of milk these days. F'n crooks, lol:D

Dan,

Bringing up a thread I made last year in the for sale area is and has nothing to do with this topic by the OP in Ask the CM. Many people would look at this link you have put up to make it look like I am being duplicitous and assume it was part of this Micarta post and not from a year ago. As we know a lot of people don't read entire threads and just look at a recent page. Your spinning and people who spin try to mix up time lines and chronologies to try to discredit. :grin-devilish: Magicians call this subterfuge "misdirection in time". That is what political attack dogs do when the shill for someone else as a confederate while spinning their info. BTW, 70.00 is cheap as I know CMs who charge as much as 150.00 for one Westinghouse Micarta ferrule.

The micarta I have is paper asbestos Micarta that was rolled in rod form. The chart I posted clearly shows the vast difference in hardness than the pressed Westinghouse stuff comparatively due to the structure of the paper aggregate and the resin formula, I guess? Yet even though it is much harder is has a very quiet or soft resonance compared to other ferrule materials over the 93 hardness range. Might I be so bold as to say it is kinda magical but that is what they have always said about real micarta.

Just because you or a lot of people have not been exposed to or owned GE Micarta means their arguments are flawed because they have no direct experience with the stuff I show in this thread. Tell me, how can you or anyone else speak intelligently about or knock any material that they have never seen, touched, machined or played pool with as a ferrule. I have done all four and was just trying to share this experience here.

Frankly it seems a little silly to me that they would expose them self to developing a point or a position from a negative basis. Everyone knows you can't win an argument trying to prove a negative. It is against Aristotelian logic.

Urban legends are so strong in this industry that most people who buy into them do so for life or the long haul......... and how dare anyone come up with anything that does not fit in their little box.

All I have been saying before the bashing or pissing started is that there is other paper laden asbestos micarta material that is out there, no more and no less. I never said it was better ( although I believe it and am now admitting it :duck:) but I have the experience of being exposed to many of these materials. Not bashing one I have no experience with.

If you are right about me being a crook, that would mean that I was duped when I paid $ 2,500.00 for the rod. But if you have ever read any of my posts, I think you will find that I am a pretty circumspect person that does his homework, research and pays attention to detail and likes to follow the science. If you don't see that about me you have blinders on for some reason. Not only that I bough the piece from someone who has been in this industry for over 40 years who has esoteric knowledge in this area.

BTW, I am not a crook and am one of the most honest and generous people of the planet. IMO, That is of corse for others to determine so don't take my word for it.

You clearly have no skin in this game and I have noticed that you do post a lot of negative stuff by in large. So go ahead and spin for yourself or anyone else that you are shilling for. I will alway respond with logic. That is all I can do.

What I find interesting is that most of your posts often seem to have a agenda of negativity and you have no background info or anything in "About Me or even a location". Here is a quote form a recent post you made:

Anyone else think this is really John posting? Funny, he gets banned, and all the sudden this "Mike" starts with the spamming right away:rolleyes:

Sometimes I wonder if there are not ghost people here that are someone else in disguise. It seems that you revealed that same thought in this post>>>>>>Could that be the pot calling the kettle black and maybe sometimes people get a little bold and their words tell on themselves. Ah.... but forget about that because I have no basis for that argument and I will admit that.



Rick

PS David from Switzerland clearly knows how to read, understand, and clearly has no skin in this game.
 
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Couldn't agree less: it clearly says in that add that it's not the Westinghouse flat-laminated paper Micarta, so if anyone wants to pay so much for something that's clearly advertised as something else, let them…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Could'nt agree less, yet you say the same thing i did:confused:
Here is one quote from the add that i think is very misleading to someone that is not an expert on the stuff.....

"If you are looking for the real old school micarta, this is the good stuff."

and here's another that's not only misleading, but just plain false, in most people's eyes.

" Great ferrule material, hits better that Ivory"

I'm spinning? OK....Looks like you're the one who's doing the spinning, first going off on Eric, then lying and saying you were'nt selling it on here, etc., etc. I'm not saying you're a crook, persay, but looks pretty obvious too me at least, that you're not as honest as you claim to be either. I think we all know now the GE is not "the real deal" as you say, and definately not worth 5-10X as much as the westinghouse, or ivory for that matter. I was actually a big fan of yours, before earlier in this thread, and not for your cues either, because personally, i think they're just a dowel with ringwork, and i don't share your full core theory. I think cues should have different hits, according to what materials, and woods are used in them:) My guess, based on your process, is that your cues probably hit about all the same, not bad, but not great either, as do all the other cored cues. Most honest man on the planet, is a bit strong, don't you think? In my experience, the one's that claim to be the most of something, are usually the most of the opposite..........
 
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Could'nt agree less, yet you say the same thing i did:confused:
Here is one quote from the add that i think is very misleading to someone that is not an expert on the stuff.....

"If you are looking for the real old school micarta, this is the good stuff."

and here's another that's not only misleading, but just plain false, in most people's eyes.

" Great ferrule material, hits better that Ivory"

That sales offer contains all the info one needs to base one's buying decision on. Whether or not some ferrule material hits better or worse than ivory (or, for that matter, any other material) is opinion, as is the part that this no doubt also old material is "the good stuff". The buyer need not base his/her buying decision on opinion - after all, everybody's entitled to have their own. It's sufficiently clear the sale is for GE and not Westinghouse, and spiral-bound asbestos and not flat-laminated paper Micarta. Anyone paying that much, not knowing what they're buying, nor doing their homework, has simply - sorry to be so blunt - got more money than brains (in my perhaps not so humble opinion). To put it more mildly: are there really potential buyers out there paying two to three digits for a ferrule when they don't have a clue what to look for in the first place? Perhaps I'm being typically European about this, but how much need is there to protect customers against just about everything: lack of knowledge and information as well as curiosity, but it's fine for them to be full of naivety, as long as they've got pockets full of cash? Anyone savvy and patient enough to read through that offer is going to find all the information they need. Please excuse my rambling…

It's simple: what's there to see is there for everyone to see! Everyone with eyes and the intent to look, that is.

By the way, I did see that offer at the time, and didn't order any because of what it says it isn't. Maybe the GE stuff would be interesting to try, I'm not entirely sure I know it. But it's not a misleading ad at all, or I might have ordered some myself.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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