What's Wrong With Pool?

I think you're right Jay, and I would like to hear you speak more on the compensation (or lack there of) given to professional players. It has always amazed me how comparatively little a professional pool player earns.
As to the future of cue sports, the best person to ask might be the poolhall owner.
 
jay helfert said:
I see thread after thread questioning why Pool is not somehow a bigger and more popular sport than it is. Why isn't there a pro tour? Why don't the pros make more money? Why aren't they rich and famous like Baseball and Basketball players? Why isn't there more Pool on TV? Why are so many poolrooms closing? All this like there is something inherently wrong with the sport of Pool.

There isn't anything "wrong" with Pool. It is only the perception that it should somehow be better than it is that is wrong. I like Pool no matter what, and it's okay for me just the way it is! I still enjoy playing just as much now as I did when I was a kid learning the game. A good shot still feels like a good shot. If it never changes in my lifetime that's fine with me. I've had a good time, made lots of friends and made a decent living with this game. What more can you ask for?

Pool is not going anywhere! It's going to be around for a very, very long time. I'm CERTAIN more people play the game worldwide today than ever before. I'm glad that we have this great game to amuse, entertain and challenge us. My answer to all those questions about what's wrong with Pool is this - NOTHING!
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I agree Jay there is nothing wrong with Pool, in my opinion the question should be what has been and what is wrong with the people who have promoted the sport over the last 30 year's. This is not an attack on you, but you have to admitt that pool has had some very interesting promoters, and in many cases while maybe not intentionally they have done the sport great harm. It seems that everytime things look great for the players some one takes the money and runs or they get screwed in some manner. I think that pool needs a governing body that not only promotes it to the player, but also promotes it as a sport to the general public and especially the children. All sports grow their next generation, and the BCA use to do just that, now we are left with local support only and the interest has fallen off a great deal.

JIMO
 
May be bigger than ever but it is largely gone from small-town America (at least that part I'm familiar with). My hometown of about 1400 people had two poolrooms and two bars with a total of 8 NICE snooker tables and 8 very decent regulation pool tables. Now there is not even a single bar table, let alone any regulation table to be found.

The economy has certainly been a factor but I think the changes in society over the years have been a greater cause for the decline. People just don't socialize as they once did. The pool rooms were not simply a place to knock balls around but a place to visit with familiar faces and have fun beyond the tables.

Looking at the top players in this country so far as prize money... it's a shame but one that has existed for as long as I recall. The sport won't die from the top down in spite of the lack of great prize monies. The cancer is spreading upward from the roots... if my area of the country is any sort of overall indication.

I miss those old pool halls in many ways. I have to drive 40 plus miles one-way just to play on a decently maintained bar table!

Jay, if you ever made any hustling runs through southern Missouri, try repeating them now. I doubt this area is unique.
 
I think what Jay is saying is that pool is and has been doing just fine, thank you. We've all dissected ad nauseam the problems that we believe hold pool back from being the next poker (or whatever) main street explosion.

I don't think he's saying let's just turn a blind eye to the negative issues, nor to stop trying to make it more lucrative and popular. I think Jay is instead saying:

"Pool is cool. There's much a pool enthusiast can get from and give to the game, so don't overly focus on the 'What If's'. Don't forget to enjoy today."
 
Pool needs a backer. Until a billionaire decides he'd like to sponsor pool more than a shopping trip to Cairo we will continue to see the payouts that we do. Pool has proven to be a sport where the money generated from it DOES NOT come from the Pros. Joe and Sally who make up the 300 team APA league bring in way more money for at least the bars they play in and the league they are affiliated with than if you have an event with all the pro players on the planet.

I think the tournament model needs to change some. Everyone wants to hold these tournaments and pay out not enough, to give you an example if I made what Efren got for this year's DCC I'd have to live in Rusty's garage! People knock the APA but I'll tell you what, they figured out how to get money in play. I think we need to move to a qualifier based/invitational finals type of tournament system. What if there were 50 tournaments held all over the world and you had to finish in the top 5 to play in the US Open? Think about the money that could be generated, and you could even pay the qualifiers some bonus money and airfare/entry fee to the invitational final event. That may sound silly but if you don't find a way to stack the money up, theres is not going to be money in the final pot at the end of the rainbow.

When regional tours and bar table tournaments with high calcuttas dominate the tournament scene, there is a real issue with the infrastructure of the tournament system. I don't have the answers but I do know a lot about good business models. If you took American Pool to the bank and showed them it's 'portfolio' you wouldn't get loaned $50. Change can be good.
 
tap tap tap.

Thank you, Jay. You have perfectly expressed what I think every time I read one of the "Pool Is Dead" threads. Some people can't seem to tell the difference between the sport of pool and the business of pool, which is what the PID threads always seem to be about.
 
A reformed 'Rat'

Jay, I agree with you... now that I have gone back to work. :-)

During the 5 year period that I played nothing but pool, I would have disagreed with you vehemently. There were many times on the drive home from a tournament or gambling session that I would get the distinct feeling that I was just another rat, chasing after a small slice of a very small piece of cheese. What was I chasing after? Winning the U.S. Open and $40K. Then I read somewhere that Tiger Woods gets paid more than that just to SHOW UP at a golf tournament. Pretty discouraging. For someone like myself, with no marketing/business skills, just the pure desire to master the game, I was devastated. Combine the fact that I was lacking in the talent department, along with the fact that the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is actually an tin cup with a few plug nickels in it and you get the idea of how my perception of the game was getting warped. That's when the self-flagellation would begin, "What the $#(@ am I doing?" and the worst realization of all "This game/life is changing me, for the worse".

Fast forward to today, and I no longer see pool in such a cynical light. I'll always love pool, it's my first true love. I play it for enjoyment, it's a hobby now.

I think two things can be done to improve the game.

1) Give the rats a bigger piece of cheese. There are many players who work not only on their game, but their behavior and try to bring the game up along with them. They are fighting the good fight.

2) Stop romanticizing the rats that have cut up more people than Jeffery Dahlmer. It's time for some players to admit that there are certain behaviors that bring the game down into the gutter, and be held accountable.

Merciless greed has had the run of our beloved game for the last 30 years. To those that have profited from it, I say "Time to pay it forward".
 
I didn't mean to suggest the sport of pool/snooker/billiards have ANYTHING wrong with them. Most concerns that are expressed seem to evolve around money for the big boys or a particular league's rules and management. My concern is not to complain about the game or the rules, just the access to the game. If the access problem continues to evolve as it has here, what's wrong with pool is that it is becoming a city-only game because that's the only place (generally) a pool room has any possibility of operating at a profit.

Without easy access to the game, the game will cease to be played.
 
One of the things IMHO that is very wrong with Pool is there are TOO MANY, Pool Organization. Example is in Phoenix Arizona, where have at last count from the latest issue of the local Pool rag, not less than EIGHT LEAGUE Organizations. BCA, TAP, ACS, APA, UPA, Arizona Pool League, TAP, and VNEA that are list in the rag. All of there league operators are each trying to attract players to their leagues. Think Pool IMHO would work better if it was all under one governing organization.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
One of the things IMHO that is very wrong with Pool is there are TOO MANY, Pool Organization. Example is in Phoenix Arizona, where have at last count from the latest issue of the local Pool rag, not less than EIGHT LEAGUE Organizations. BCA, TAP, ACS, APA, UPA, Arizona Pool League, TAP, and VNEA that are list in the rag. All of there league operators are each trying to attract players to their leagues. Think Pool IMHO would work better if it was all under one governing organization.
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It would also be nice if we didn't have republicans/democrats/left/right/midddle/up/down/forward/sideways :)

Below is what works for me.

"We The People"
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
I think what Jay is saying is that pool is and has been doing just fine, thank you. We've all dissected ad nauseam the problems that we believe hold pool back from being the next poker (or whatever) main street explosion.

I don't think he's saying let's just turn a blind eye to the negative issues, nor to stop trying to make it more lucrative and popular. I think Jay is instead saying:

"Pool is cool. There's much a pool enthusiast can get from and give to the game, so don't overly focus on the 'What If's'. Don't forget to enjoy today."
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Bingo! Pool remains the great game we fell in love with all those years ago. Maybe it will never be a vehicle for a lot of people to be professionals and earn a good living. But that's just the way it is. In this sport only the very strong survive as pros!

Yet there remains opportunities (even to this day) for an enterprising individual to make a living in this game. Just ask Scott Lee or Pat Fleming or Eric Crisp or Joe Salazar. A few people who make a living doing a variety of jobs that are Pool related. Or ask one of the hundreds (if not thousands) of league operators nationwide.

I also believe that the neighborhood poolroom is not dead yet. We may see a comeback at some point in time, where new establishments are opening, that feature Pool as one of their offerings. It still remains a great game to socialize over and enjoy, for any age group. I can see Pool being part of any entertainment complex, even today.

There is no shortage of people who enjoy the game. It seems to be me that every successful athlete or entertainer has a pool table in their home. Wonder why? I don't think it's there just for show. Retail outlets continue to sell tables (even though business is down) and table makers continue to manufacture new tables. Yes the Pool business is down in this country, but so is business for other forms of recreation as well.

Computer generated businesses and games are having their day now, but at some point human beings will want to get out more for recreation and entertainment. It's how we're programmed. Pool has made at least three big comebacks in my lifetime, so why not one more. But like I said, there is nothing inherently wrong with the game! It is the one constant in this entire thread. It never changes or fails to fulfill it's role in our lives.
 
Island Drive said:
It would also be nice if we didn't have republicans/democrats/left/right/midddle/up/down/forward/sideways :)

Below is what works for me.

"We The People"
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Amen and you get a GREENIE!!!!!!, also IMHO talking about the problems does nothing, only working to remove the problems make them go away!!!!
 
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jay helfert said:
I see thread after thread questioning why Pool is not somehow a bigger and more popular sport than it is. Why isn't there a pro tour? Why don't the pros make more money? Why aren't they rich and famous like Baseball and Basketball players? Why isn't there more Pool on TV? Why are so many poolrooms closing? All this like there is something inherently wrong with the sport of Pool.

There isn't anything "wrong" with Pool. It is only the perception that it should somehow be better than it is that is wrong. I like Pool no matter what, and it's okay for me just the way it is! I still enjoy playing just as much now as I did when I was a kid learning the game. A good shot still feels like a good shot. If it never changes in my lifetime that's fine with me. I've had a good time, made lots of friends and made a decent living with this game. What more can you ask for?

Pool is not going anywhere! It's going to be around for a very, very long time. I'm CERTAIN more people play the game worldwide today than ever before. I'm glad that we have this great game to amuse, entertain and challenge us. My answer to all those questions about what's wrong with Pool is this - NOTHING!
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My goodness Jay: you said something that I completely agree with. I came to the same conclusion a few years back after reading person after person complaining how we can get more pool on TV etc.

I like pool just the way it is, in general.

But, I can tell you that if I win the lottery big time, I am building my own indoor stadium for pool and the stakes will be high, year after year after year.

As I have also said many times: a lottery winner pool fanatic is the only way pool is going to take off. :D
 
Maybe you're on to something there... I mean, the easy answer people give is that pool is boring to watch, but there's lots more activity than when we see some people quietly sitting around the table holding cards in their hand. And even a highly active sport like mixed martial arts can get boring to watch at times.

So really it's not the game itself, it's probably just marketing. The right marketing can make random squabbles between 4 roommates into a popular TV show with lots of sponsors.

I figure we should enjoy it for what it is and not worry about when pool is gonna get big and make more money. It's a game, it was invented to be played for enjoyment between two people, not as a moneymaking device or a spectator sport. If it happens to eventually go bigtime, that's okay but it's not essential.
 
Create Party Poker Pool. Instead of being dealt a hand, you must play for it. The first five balls you pocket constitute your hand. Maybe have to use two jokers. :grin:

I could perhaps afford to start up a smaller pool room but I know it would be a bust unless I sold drinks (at least beer). Taking on that bull is not something that appeals to me. We need a Wal-Mart of the pool world.
 
You Nailed it, Jay

I really appreciated what Jay had to say. He nailed it. It seems a lot of folks are very wound up on being bigger in everything. In many minds, size is equated to success.

I actually think getting smaller could be the biggest help to the game in the next decade. Yes, you read it right - smaller. Less rooms, less tournaments and a small overall industry. Sure, the pool might not have the volume of participants, but the number of good players could actually improve.

I spoke with a Hall of Famer a couple of years ago at the Open who said that there are more good players today than at any other time that they had seen. I don't see this changing - regardless of how many new players take up the game vs other means of recreation. Pool will draw the right personalities into itself one way or the other. All that is needed is one good room in an area/city to make this happen. As halls close, this takes care of itself.

There's also the social factor and the culture of the sport people overlook. That's huge. Again, as the industry changes, this is impossible to replace with activities that are virtual or electronically delivered. Gaming and the like have their own cultures and there's a different set of drivers they address for their participants. Comparing these with pool is like apples-and-oranges. Total BS. Let's not forget that Johnny Archer is said to have discovered pool in an arcade.

Sure, pool might look a bit different in the future, but I suspect the personalities drawn to the game will stay the same. That is the sport's brand; that is why it is unique and what differentiates it. It is also what attracts the players. This needs to be leveraged, not sanitized or diluted. Bigger isn't always better.

Ironically, this very forum represents what is possible in a sense. Name another place where the thought leaders of an industry are so accessible to just a banger like myself? Its effective because it serves a small industry and has great penetration. Does golf have such a thing? Doubt it.

Last, so what if only a very few can 'make a living' as professional players right now. The 'pool culture' is what they're living on anyways, not the money. Sure they might not be 'rich' in the standard definition, but the goodwill (respect) they command in any serious poolroom in the world is payment itself. Celebrity/fame/respect is what keeps them in the game. Keep in mind, too, that these individuals will always land on their feet, one way or the other.

Good job, Jay. I think pool is cool.

And bigger isn't always better.
 
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I haven't read the entire thread, so someone may have already pointed this out. For the most part, pool in not a spectator sport. People want to play pool. Not many people want to watch other people play pool. Go to pretty much any tournament, and the players outnumber the spectators. Take away the wives and girlfriends, and the crowd gets really small, really fast.

I love this game as much as anyone. But I love playing it. I don't love watching others play it. Yes, I will go to a big event and watch some of the top players, but it may be only with one eye on the match. Pool will never draw large crowds of spectators, and thus, is never going to gain much appeal to sponsors who want a good return on their investment.

Take the game for what it is...a game people enjoy playing.. It's nearly impossible to make a living playing it, but it is very easy to enjoy yourself every time you approach a table.

Steve
 
I agree with Toupee Jay. I wish there was more money in pool but I still love the game. Part of the problem in the US is the short attention span of our sports fans but car racing is popular and it is because television makes stars out of the drivers.

If some network would take a chance and put it on live tv regularly so the public could get to know the players and begin to understand the game I think it would make it.
 
If this was a golf forum no one would be complaining about the business of golf. Why? Because fewer than 1% of golfers are pros and make a good living. I don't see how that effects me if I am not a professional golfer.

I am not a professional pool player either. Pool has nothing to do with weather or not I pay my bills. My opinion of the game is not based on weather or not pros make a good living. No one is promised a good living simply because they have aquired the skill the be the best at something. There are great bowlers, chess players, archers, rifle marksmen, softball players, American soccer players and minor leage baseball players that don't make any money either. If pool players made the kind of money golfers or other professional athletes make, it would simply be more difficult to be a professional.

Secondly, I would bet the people who have lost access, to pool halls, also don't have alot of access to golf courses, gyms, movie theaters, department stores, bowling alleys, malls etc.

I bought a table and most nights I play for 2-3 hours by myself. I only play because I love the game of pool. If there were any additional benefits, I would consider them a bonus.
 
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I'm with JCIN. Pool isn't dead or going away, it is simply moving. You may not like it, but if you come to Illinois if and want to win a big tournament with a nice size calcutta. You better work on your 7' game.
 
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