I think I might go with Nick Varner at six and Jimmy Caras at seven. Almost too close to call.yers
Jimmy Caras belongs on your top five Straight Pool players list. Okay, make it top six.
I think I might go with Nick Varner at six and Jimmy Caras at seven. Almost too close to call.yers
Jimmy Caras belongs on your top five Straight Pool players list. Okay, make it top six.
Nicely written, sir.Stu has done a brilliant assessment of the greats and their respective era’s in this thread. Mostly I agree with him, if we don’t agree it’s splitting hairs to which there is no definitive answer. (Old Fatboy stepped up his writing game?) told ya I wasn’t that dumb all these years lol j/k. No I didn’t hire a ghost writer.
One thing I didn’t see mentioned in this thread or I missed it. I’d like to add one thing about SVB, it’s not where he ranks. It’s about him. We talked in this or another thread about how hard he works. That’s not disputable. Plenty of us have seen it first hand.
What I’d like to address is what version of SVB do we have today. I met SVB in Reno June 07-I’m 95% confident at the last Sands Reno tourney which he double dipped Johnny Archer 11-9 11-6 iirc in the finals.
That version of SVB was amazing, but he had rough edges, when he played the first TAR match I bet $15,000 on him playing Cory. Could have bet more, everyone knew Cory and SVB was the “kid” in SD that played good.
I’ve been lucky enough to be with SVB at 4-5 Mosconi Cups in the practice room, he stayed with me many times in Vegas and I’d spot balls for hours helping him practice-we didn’t speak, it was work. Serious biz. I offered to help, he said “thanks”. To be a minor minor part and a fly on the wall for his ride to stardom in our little corner of the universe is pretty cool. Front row seats watching him develop into what he is today.
I told this long story to be a show off that my writing has improved and share some lucky moments of my life. SVB and I are friends, we don’t talk often but we do talk about pool of course and other things that will never be public(ok fishing duh, who don’t know that???)
My final point is this, I believe the current version of SVB is thr best version of SVB I’ve seen play over the last 14 years. He was a champion in 07. But now he has that polish that comes with experience and hard work. I think he’s hitting the CB better than ever, his break ‘we already know’, his focus and mental toughness has just got better with time.
When does he peak and level off? IDK, he takes care of himself so I expect longer than the players of the 80’s. He can still improve a bit from this point I firmly believe.
He will be part of the conversation of the all time greats. For his era he is the man…Kid .
Looking forward to seeing the next 14 years happen. It’s been great so far!!
This is how we need to look at pool and respect our players who earn respect. Sure nobody is perfect, but when the fans respect the champions it creates their value. If nobody respected Michael Jordan, he’d be just another player.
just my late night musings
best
Fatboy
The entertaining part is that supposedly the "large" pockets at the last World 9 Ball was the reason SVB got knocked out, but in this conversation the large pockets of the older era made it easy for the greats to be great...lolWhy do people keep bringing up pocket sizes??
The entertaining part is that supposedly the "large" pockets at the last World 9 Ball was the reason SVB got knocked out, but in this conversation the large pockets of the older era made it easy for the greats to be great...lol
Pick one people
Easy fix cancel all visa's.I put him at the top of American players. Look at the international field he took down 5 times in the U S Open.
From 1976 to 1993 it was USA vs USA in the finals. This century there has been a foreign player in every final.
Yeah, sorry this is confusing to you. If the pockets are easier, then true greatness is less likely to shine through. You have more people playing better because of easier conditions, then it's harder to win every match.The entertaining part is that supposedly the "large" pockets at the last World 9 Ball was the reason SVB got knocked out, but in this conversation the large pockets of the older era made it easy for the greats to be great...lol
Pick one people
I'll call it for you. Jimmy Caras! He came out of a ten year retirement to win the U.S. Open Straight Pool at age 57! Jimmy took the game just as seriously and was a lot like Nick; quiet, unassuming and proud. He got tired of people asking him if he could still play with the top players since he was only doing exhibitions. He really showed them, didn't he!I think I might go with Nick Varner at six and Jimmy Caras at seven. Almost too close to call.
Thx Stu, and again we agreeNicely written, sir.
I'm inclined to agree that Shane remains at the very height of his skills. As we've often noted on the forum, the world has caught up. There are more straight shooters than at any time in our sport's history. Asia has been mass-producing great pool talent for twenty five years now, and in the last decade, the quality of European pool has skyrocketed, and not just at the top, as we recently saw all nine Polish entrants at the World Pool Championships reach Stage 2. Europe's Mosconi Cup team of 2020 had, with Fargo in parentheses, Filler (828) Shaw (824) Gorst (818) Kaci (816) Ouschan (810) for an average Fargo rate of 819, which added up to an 11-3 massacre at the Mosconi.
All the credit to Asia and Europe for stepping up their games, and that's why Shane has to do more than ever before if he is to snap off pool's toughest titles like the World Pool Championship, the US Open 9-ball, and the China Open 9-ball ---- but Shane is still a superstar of the highest order.
Whether or not pool is on ESPN has nothing to do with how good an era's pros are.This a horrible era compared to the ESPN days when pool was more mainstream.
I made to make sure to watch these events when they were on.
Better players in the past therefore worthy of ESPN. Now it sucks.
This a horrible era compared to the ESPN days when pool was more mainstream.
I made to make sure to watch these events when they were on.
Better players in the past therefore worthy of ESPN. Now it sucks.
Is there anyway to know what the top 10 or so FargoRates were in the 70s or 80s? Would be interesting to compare to today's top 10.
Didn't Irving Crane take down a tournament with all the top players when he was in his 60's?I'll call it for you. Jimmy Caras! He came out of a ten year retirement to win the U.S. Open Straight Pool at age 57! Jimmy took the game just as seriously and was a lot like Nick; quiet, unassuming and proud. He got tired of people asking him if he could still play with the top players since he was only doing exhibitions. He really showed them, didn't he!
He won in 1972 at age 59.Didn't Irving Crane take down a tournament with all the top players when he was in his 60's?
You could have stopped after the first five on that list.There are also many great female players who were not considered in this list. They probably deserve a separate GOAT list that would include players such as Allison Fisher, Karen Corr, Siming Chen, Jean Balukas, Ruth McGinnis, Ewa Mataya Lawrence, Lori Jon Jones, Robin Dodson, Jeanette Lee, Ga Young Kim, Gerda Hofstatter, Kelly Fisher, Jasmin Ouschan, Vivian Villarreal, Pan Xiaoting, etc. These players are certainly among the GOAT female players, but not the GOAT of all players."
Yea they have accu-stats info.Accu-Stats has info on the top 10 players using their stat system for pretty much every year/month/event. Also keep in mind "Fargo" the system has not been around back then, but you can certainty see who shot the most with the least errors or won the most tournaments in the Accu-Stats era. In the 70s I think it will be a lot harder to get a solid number though.
Agreed, but the omission of Han Yu is in error. Han Yu, for my money, is Siming Chen's equal.You could have stopped after the first five on that list.
He won the 9-Ball division at the Stardust in 1968. He was in his late 50's then.Didn't Irving Crane take down a tournament with all the top players when he was in his 60's?