Who Has Played CJ??

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What I saw is that if he is on then I don't see any weakness in his game compared to any other top player orcullo on down. But Earl seems to spot all other players several inner demons that he openly quarrels with. And conversely he probably costs the other players games when they have to fade those quarrels.

If he would be be quiet and play I think he would win more majors.

I agree, 100 percent! :smile:
 

Mitchxout

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CJ,

Thanks for clarifying my wording.

By 'reverse', I meant opposite what is 'normal' for most people, not a 'reverse hammer action'. I went back & put in the comma.

Anyway, I noticed Mr. Mosconi doing it several times on that video.

I found that interesting since the first I had heard of it was on here from you.

All the Best,

I like to think of it as a piston and rod going up and down. The hand is the piston, the arm is the rod, and the wrist is the connector or "wrist pin."
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
You can potentially triple your business on a certain night and hurt your business

Except you can leave out the billiards and still make the same amount of money, maybe more. :cool:

You really have to love the game to own and operate a pool room. The other stuff you are talking about just makes it possible to keep the doors open. I know you love pool, so I wish you well in your business endeavors. I think you have the correct model, but as you say, it's a gamble. Good luck with it. :)

Yes, you can leave out the pool tables and just be a bar or night club, however, in states like Texas it changes your licensing requirements and that has an effect on the zoning stipulations. There are many "tricks of the trade" and I've learned in the school of hard knocks how to stimulate business with the least potential downside. This is often a balancing act.

I believe it's best to specialize and narrow your focus on the target demographic. This can be altered to accommodate certain nights, but this is often a dangerous gamble. Knowing what nights to do this on and which ones to NOT attempt it is important.

You can potentially triple your business on a certain night and hurt your overall business. This is due to music changes which effect your clientele and reputation (locally) and may quickly lead to a negative reputation with your "bread and butter" customers.
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How regularly?

it has happened often enough with exctasy (sp ?) that the phrase " date rape drug was coined.

the heir to the maxx factor fortune was sentensed to 50 years for doping several women.

back about 6 years ago when i used to bar hop i heard of 4 different women having their drinks spiked over a years time at one particular bar.

i dont really think it happens to men very often. as i stated in an earlier post it happened to me once . you never can tell what people will pull to win a match.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I like to think of it as a piston and rod going up and down. The hand is the piston, the arm is the rod, and the wrist is the connector or "wrist pin."

Yes, as in an automotive rod & piston with a firm grip the human wrist would be like the gudgeon wrist pin.

But with a loose grip, the connection of the cue to the thumb & index fingers near the hand are more like the gudgeon 'wrist pin' & the human wrist is like a secondary pivot point as in the connection of a agricultural 'flail'.

I hope that makes sense.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
here's a letter I received yesterday that was interesting on this very subject

I like to think of it as a piston and rod going up and down. The hand is the piston, the arm is the rod, and the wrist is the connector or "wrist pin."

That sounds reasonable, I've not thought about it in that manner.

The wrist/forearm/hand does work differently than most people think in the advanced pool stroke. It's a personal thing, but I've helped several people by advising them about the "hammer analogy".

For example, here's a letter I received yesterday that was interesting on this very subject from a gentleman named "Martin".



CJ,
I just wanted to send you a message to thank you for the hammer analogy you posted in the thread about having a pause in your backswing.

A lot of times when I get down on the ball my wrist doesn't feel right. Most of the time I try to just play through it but it has always been an issue for me. When you posted your experience with hammering lots of nails as a kid, a light bulb went off in my head because I too spent much of my youth, and a few years of my adult life, with a hammer in my hand.

So the next time I played and my wrist started to feel funny, I just imagined myself holding a hammer instead of a pool cue and, BAM--problem solved. It's very weird to me how a little change in thought can make such a big difference...but it worked and I've been playing great lately. I've been laying down packages on people again, which is something I haven't done since I was playing 8-12 hours a day many years ago. People have been asking me if I'm playing a lot again and when I tell them I haven't they don't believe me, lol.


Also in that same thread, you quoted a book called Zen Archery, or something like that. That really helped me too. I grew up doing a lot of things that require hand-eye coordination. One of which was shooting a long bow. If you read my post in that thread, I said I was working to incorporate a pause back into backstroke, which is something I did naturally when I first started playing but got away from a long time ago. Relating the pause to the feeling of pulling the string back on my bow has improved my accuracy both in tip placement and ball pocketing.

Anyway this message has run a lot longer than I had planned. I just wanted to thank you for sharing your experiences with the AZ forum and let you know you helped me a lot just with those two analogies. I'm glad we are lucky enough to have you post regularly on the forums. Thanks, CJ!
- Martin
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First they need to travel there...........

A short while back, CJ Wiley challenged the top 100 players to play for cash. Has anybody taken him up on his offer? Who? For how much $$? How did they do? OR...why not??
:D

When your down in Texas it's like being in Wisconsin.

When in Wis. you need to go down to get somewhere and when in Texas you need to go up.

Among the better players there is hardly nobody seeking out to play the best players unless they think they have the nutz.

It happens all the time to me.

I go to a town and some of the better players will play 100 or 200 sets but they don't want to play for more.

If I hang out there long enough and they find out how bad I play on some days because of my health they want to bet more. But until then the bets are small.

I'm sure if Busty or someone of his caliber went to Dallas for some reason to play CJ it would be kind of tough for CJ. he's not in top shooting form because he's not in the action much. He certainly wouldn't want to bet 2,000 to 3000 a set.

I might be wrong but he is not Superman. You need to get ready to play top players. you can't just practice and then say OK, I'm ready to whip the world.

Once he's been playing some people he can get back in top playing form. But good luck with that.

Even being out of the loop, just like a rattlesnake, CJ is capable of beating anyone in the world any given set at any given time.

Good Luck with him finding someone to use as a punching bag until he gets back to that top level.

Same with me trying to teach and play and trying to deal with injuries that are still trying to heal.

I have to be careful who I play because of some physical issues right now. If I want to play at a real higher level i need to be in tip top physical shape and be playing people all the time. Say good bye to teaching so much.

It's tough to stay in stroke so you can play like you are capable.

One thing CJ would need to get back is his nerve against the top competition out there..and be able to perform with all the chips on the line with that one shot.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
it has happened often enough with exctasy (sp ?) that the phrase " date rape drug was coined.

the heir to the maxx factor fortune was sentensed to 50 years for doping several women.

back about 6 years ago when i used to bar hop i heard of 4 different women having their drinks spiked over a years time at one particular bar.

i dont really think it happens to men very often. as i stated in an earlier post it happened to me once . you never can tell what people will pull to win a match.



Your on the right track here but have the pharmacology
confused. Ecstasy which is MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine) is a type of amphetamine was first used for rape victims in psychotherapy and post traumatic stress syndrome. it causes your brain to flood with serotonin and other happy drugs already in your body, so it enables people to work thru very intense issues without the negative effects of depression that accompany them. its a great drug for a very limited use in people with SERIOUS problems. If you dont have serouus problems it makes you feel better than anything in the world for 6-8 hours followed by a very dismal depressing day-bad stuff dont use it, unless you have serious issues and a good shrink to work you thur your issues. Speeds up recovery very fast, many layers of the onion will come off much faster to the root of the problem.


The "Date rape" drugs are Ruffies form Mexico, one of those and a drink a person is OUt and wont remember. so goes the old saying "Slip him a ruffie)

The REAL date rape drug is GHB looks clear, the good stuff has zero taste, the bad stuff tastes so bad its almost impossible to get down, mixed with alcohol its lethal very quickly. We used to buy it legal at GNC in the mall, body builders use it to sleep(never with alcohol). thats what the Max Factor guy used on that girl and that was probably the 50th girl he used it on, its very dangerous with even one drink. I have used GHB a zillion times, 13 years ago you could buy kits online to make it, my friend a surgeon made it for all of us at the gym. Good stuff if used right. I know a guy who bought 200-300 bottles for $20/ea just before the law changed, he sold them for $100 each, he got a few years for that move. I aint touched it in 10 years, a little bit is relaxing and helps you sleep good.


I know a bit about pharmacology, just enuff to get into trouble, not enuff to get out of trouble "The Game, doesn't use drugs"
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
always be aware when drinking in public places where gambling is prevalent.

Your on the right track here but have the pharmacology
confused. Ecstasy which is MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine) is a type of amphetamine was first used for rape victims in psychotherapy and post traumatic stress syndrome. it causes your brain to flood with serotonin and other happy drugs already in your body, so it enables people to work thru very intense issues without the negative effects of depression that accompany them. its a great drug for a very limited use in people with SERIOUS problems. If you dont have serouus problems it makes you feel better than anything in the world for 6-8 hours followed by a very dismal depressing day-bad stuff dont use it, unless you have serious issues and a good shrink to work you thur your issues. Speeds up recovery very fast, many layers of the onion will come off much faster to the root of the problem.


The "Date rape" drugs are Ruffies form Mexico, one of those and a drink a person is OUt and wont remember. so goes the old saying "Slip him a ruffie)

The REAL date rape drug is GHB looks clear, the good stuff has zero taste, the bad stuff tastes so bad its almost impossible to get down, mixed with alcohol its lethal very quickly. We used to buy it legal at GNC in the mall, body builders use it to sleep(never with alcohol). thats what the Max Factor guy used on that girl and that was probably the 50th girl he used it on, its very dangerous with even one drink. I have used GHB a zillion times, 13 years ago you could buy kits online to make it, my friend a surgeon made it for all of us at the gym. Good stuff if used right. I know a guy who bought 200-300 bottles for $20/ea just before the law changed, he sold them for $100 each, he got a few years for that move. I aint touched it in 10 years, a little bit is relaxing and helps you sleep good.


I know a bit about pharmacology, just enuff to get into trouble, not enuff to get out of trouble "The Game, doesn't use drugs"

Yes, this GHB is not what they would use on pool players, it's the "date rape drug". It's mild in low dosages, and makes people pass out and virtually stop breathing in higher ones. It's nasty stuff for many reasons.

I was trained on the road to watch my drinks, that's what I'm communicating because if you don't know about it, chances are it could happen if you gamble for big numbers.

People that do this type of thing are very low on the list of human beings, so just cover up your drink if you're gambling in public. Bottled water is the best, just keep the cap screwed on and this won't be a concern

It's happened to me on numerous occasions, of course I was always gambling on the road so it's no surprise.

Just a "word to the wise" always be aware when drinking in public places where gambling is prevalent.
 

Toncam

Another Bum !
Silver Member
Just a "word to the wise" always be aware when drinking in public places where gambling is prevalent.

Truer words will be hard to find. I worked the back room/ after hours casinos in NY for over 6 years and it didnt take much to get a shot of visine or something similar in your drink if you were getting out of line or making beefs.
Bust out joints used this type tactic also on guys who squawked too much after going bust that they got robbed, but i wouldnt know anything about this sort of activity, lol.

I remember in the mid 90,s i think it was when this ecstasy crap came out that we would start seeing these kids when the clubs let out here and they would come in hugging and dancing and singing, all Laa Dee Daa, ya know ? Everyones their best bro and buddy and all that crap. We were like "Well, this is gonna be easy". Soon as we get them on the crap game, we were automatically "Partners", lol.
 

bondsman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A very good friend of mine told me how he had this done to him at apool hall in Tucson. He is still hot at the mention of the owner;s name. I amsure many on here know Bob Ogburn the victim of the jarring and talso know he person he believes was responsible. But didn't Tucson have that reputation?
 

rayjay

some of the kids
Silver Member
When your down in Texas it's like being in Wisconsin.

When in Wis. you need to go down to get somewhere and when in Texas you need to go up.

Among the better players there is hardly nobody seeking out to play the best players unless they think they have the nutz.

It happens all the time to me.

I go to a town and some of the better players will play 100 or 200 sets but they don't want to play for more.

If I hang out there long enough and they find out how bad I play on some days because of my health they want to bet more. But until then the bets are small.

I'm sure if Busty or someone of his caliber went to Dallas for some reason to play CJ it would be kind of tough for CJ. he's not in top shooting form because he's not in the action much. He certainly wouldn't want to bet 2,000 to 3000 a set.

I might be wrong but he is not Superman. You need to get ready to play top players. you can't just practice and then say OK, I'm ready to whip the world.

Once he's been playing some people he can get back in top playing form. But good luck with that.

Even being out of the loop, just like a rattlesnake, CJ is capable of beating anyone in the world any given set at any given time.

Good Luck with him finding someone to use as a punching bag until he gets back to that top level.

Same with me trying to teach and play and trying to deal with injuries that are still trying to heal.

I have to be careful who I play because of some physical issues right now. If I want to play at a real higher level i need to be in tip top physical shape and be playing people all the time. Say good bye to teaching so much.

It's tough to stay in stroke so you can play like you are capable.

One thing CJ would need to get back is his nerve against the top competition out there..and be able to perform with all the chips on the line with that one shot.

This makes a lot of sense, thanks Gene. I'm still surprised that some high level players, at least one or two, aren't looking up CJ to find out how he plays now though, after making this bold statement, even if it's not a "challenge", on the top pool forum in the world.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
.his eyes were dialated and he just said "I wanna play, I wanna play, I wanna play"

A very good friend of mine told me how he had this done to him at apool hall in Tucson. He is still hot at the mention of the owner;s name. I amsure many on here know Bob Ogburn the victim of the jarring and talso know he person he believes was responsible. But didn't Tucson have that reputation?

Yes, there were certain cities that had that reputation.

I was with Strong Arm John in Wichita Kansas 30 years ago and they jarred him with biscuits and gravy. That's right!!! One of them got him back in the kitchen and said "John, you gotta taste these biscuits and gravy, they're the best in the country".

Anyone that knows John, knows his fondness for food.

It took me and our partner both to drag Big John out of the game he was in....we physically had to drag him from the pool table he wanted to play so bad.....and He could NOT make a ball in the ocean if he was standing on the beach.......his eyes were dilated and he just said "I wanna play, I wanna play, I wanna play".....WOW, that stuff is brutal indeed. :(
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
They used to use horse tranquilizers as well. One would do the trick. Made you slightly off kilter, your equilibrium wasn't quite right and you might think you're still playing good. I got a dose at a bar in L.A. over 30 years ago. After losing like five games in a row I quit. I knew something was wrong. :frown:
 

sydbarret

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Crazy stuff.

I never got jarred. I did get reverse-jarred one time in NC. I was gettin taken to play a player named jaybird or sth like that. Anyways in the car they gave me a pill and I took it.

Well the pockets basically doubled in size, it was unreal. I guess looking back it was some kind of speed.

Fatboy, I've done GHB before, but why is it that bodybuilders used it all the time?
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
It's also VERY TOXIC and there are many things healthier that have similar effects

Crazy stuff.

I never got jarred. I did get reverse-jarred one time in NC. I was gettin taken to play a player named jaybird or sth like that. Anyways in the car they gave me a pill and I took it.

Well the pockets basically doubled in size, it was unreal. I guess looking back it was some kind of speed.

Fatboy, I've done GHB before, but why is it that bodybuilders used it all the time?

Weightlifters use it because it promotes muscle growth and cuts fat while you sleep. It's also VERY TOXIC and there are many things healthier that have similar effects for muscle growth, just not with the intoxicating qualities.

Here's more from an internet site:
Description: This compound is a naturally occurring metabolite of the amino acid GABA. Before it was removed from the over-the-counter market, supplement distributors purported GHB ability to increase natural growth hormone secretion. These claims were based on a 1977 study by the Third Department of Internal Medicine, Okayama University School of Medicine, Okayama Japan. In this study, it was discovered that GHB has a significant effect on pituitary hormones, specifically growth hormone (GH) and prolactin. In this trial, a dose of 2.5 grams of GHB was administered to a sample of healthy male subjects prior to sleep. What they observed were significant increases in plasma GH over a period of 90 minutes. These plasma GH levels reached peaks of nearly 40 mg/ml. This lead researchers to conclude that the supplementation of GHB stimulates the secretion of GH by the pituitary gland in healthy human subjects. GHB may cause a release in GH by modifying the amount of serotonin available from the nerve terminals. Others believe that GHB blocks the release of dopamine from nerve endings thus increasing the dopamine concentration of the brain. Others feels that a serotoninergic mechanism is responsible. GHB has been used for many years in parts of Europe and Japan for a variety of medical purposes.
http://www.elitefitness.com/articledata/ghb.html
 

Toncam

Another Bum !
Silver Member
They used to use horse tranquilizers as well. One would do the trick. Made you slightly off kilter, your equilibrium wasn't quite right and you might think you're still playing good. I got a dose at a bar in L.A. over 30 years ago. After losing like five games in a row I quit. I knew something was wrong. :frown:

When i read what you wrote i immeadiately thought of the movie "The Pope of Greenwich Village". They slipped the meter maid a horse physic in his ginger ale and the guy went out in the street to write tickets and all of a sudden he felt it coming and went in his pants, lol.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
They slip them one of those "horse constipation pills," then lock the men's restroom

When i read what you wrote i immeadiately thought of the movie "The Pope of Greenwich Village". They slipped the meter maid a horse physic in his ginger ale and the guy went out in the street to write tickets and all of a sudden he felt it coming and went in his pants, lol.

That's funny, they actually used to do that to the knockers :smash: in pool rooms in the "old school" days. They'd slip em one of those "horse constipation pills," then lock the men's restroom. The poor "knocker" would wish he had put on his 'Depends' before he left his house that day.

Knockers "high five" each other these days, but in the 80's they wouldn't feel so popular in an action pool room. As a matter of fact you might not see them more than once or twice before they were "enticed to leave".
 
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