Whom, is credited with inventing low deflection shafts?
- Thread starter Pangit
- Start date
http://seybertsbulletin.com/showthread.php?209-What-are-Predator-s-patents
Enter the patent number in the appropriate box at this link then click the search button:
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Enter the patent number in the appropriate box at this link then click the search button:
http://www.google.com/advanced_patent_search
Jerry Forsyth
Well-known member
The first low-deflection shaft I remember was made by Clawson Cues, owned by Alan McCarty. This company later changed their name to Predator. But I am no historian and could be wrong. I just do not remember segmented LD shafts before that time. However, I sometimes cannot remember how to put on my socks so do not trust this to be gospel.
I do remember that after Alan came out with his shafts that other cuemakers who made one-piece maple shafts were saying that their shafts were also LD. Whether that is so or not is still a matter of some debate.
I do remember that after Alan came out with his shafts that other cuemakers who made one-piece maple shafts were saying that their shafts were also LD. Whether that is so or not is still a matter of some debate.
Old Nine Baller
Banned
I was just talking to a guy last week who mentioned that Clawson Cues was the original name that became Predator.
Wasn't Steve Titus involved in the LD shafts origination?
ONB
It appears Google has screwed up their patent search function, but I found this showing McCarty and Titus:
http://www.google.com/patents/US6110051
http://www.google.com/patents/US6110051
Yes.
But I think to the OP, "low deflection" was being marketed by Bob Meucci before Clawson Cues. Clawson (Alan and Steve) just had the game-changing attribute, however.
my understanding...........
Meucci = 1st ld shafts, pro's choice for years
Clawson = 1st laminated
Meucci = 1st ld shafts, pro's choice for years
Clawson = 1st laminated
Actually, Bob Meucci claimed zero deflection......
...which is not possible at all ranges on all conditions.
McCarty and Titus came with the most 'user friendly' shaft at that time.
....in my opinion. of course.
Meucci Deflection Theory
Plus if you go on the meucci website and read the Original article on deflection it indicates the need for vibration to travel thru the cue and be uninterrupted!! http://www.meuccicues.com/deflection.htm Here is a link to read for ones self!!! Thats why I like players cues cored because the vibration is uninterrupted by points cut into the center maple core interrupting the flow of energy thru the cue. The outer core channels the energe thru the cue and out the end.
Link is broken due to website changes but found this below!
Bob Meucci has an article on deflection you can read here:
http://www.meuccicues.com/deflection.htm
Here's a quote from that article that explains the phenomenon pretty well:
"Cue ball deflection occurs when the cue ball is struck off-center as when English or side spin is applied to the shot. This causes the ball to take a path off-angle, veering in the opposite direction from the side on which it was struck. In other words, strike the cue ball left of center and it will deflect off course to the right of the direction established by the alignment of the shaft.
"Cue ball deflection will vary from very little (1/8 of an inch in the span of 8 feet) to a whopping 1 1/2 inches in the same span. These variations are a result of three factors;
" 1. How far off center the cue ball is struck (left or right); the more off center,
the more deflection.
" 2. The hardness of the surface striking the ball (tip & ferrule) creating varying levels of shock.
" 3. How much force is used when the ball is struck. The more force applied by speed of stroke, the greater the deflection.
"Therefore, when selecting a cue for maximum deflection (which is highly undesirable in my opinion), get one with a stiffly-tapered shaft and a hard tip (13 1/2mm or larger). It should also have a very hard ferrule such as ivory or a phenolic resin type material and a stiff butt-joint such as steel.
"Strike the cue ball off-center 3/8 of an inch; hit it hard and you’ll get maximum deflection. The cue ball will veer off-path from the direction the shaft is pointed by 1 1/2 inches in an 8 ft. span, possibly missing the entire object ball!"
And further on, he writes:
"To test this for yourself, find a cue with a 13 1/2 mm stiffly-tapered shaft with an ivory ferrule or a very hard surfaced ferrule and a stiff joint. Put an object ball on the spot and the cue ball in the center of the table on the foul line. Strike the cue ball 3/8 inches off-center but keep the shaft on line or parallel for a straight-on hit. Hit the cue ball firmly and you will probably cut the object ball 90 degrees or miss the object ball completely. Perform the same exercise with a 4-point Meucci cue and you will cut the object ball off the straight line to the end diamond by no more than one inch, which would still be within the error allowed in a 4 1/2 inch pocket with a 2 1/4 inch ball."
So now you see what I mean about how my cue deflected the object balls badly. Believe me, the deflection was horrendous, so bad I avoided shooting any shots with any english at all unless the ball I was going after was VERY close to a pocket. The result was being limited to shooting center ball shots, which is fine as far as it goes. But sometimes, english is the only way out of a tight situation. Hence the more flexible shafted Meuccis help me pot more balls...
Hope this helps!
Best,
Plus if you go on the meucci website and read the Original article on deflection it indicates the need for vibration to travel thru the cue and be uninterrupted!! http://www.meuccicues.com/deflection.htm Here is a link to read for ones self!!! Thats why I like players cues cored because the vibration is uninterrupted by points cut into the center maple core interrupting the flow of energy thru the cue. The outer core channels the energe thru the cue and out the end.
Link is broken due to website changes but found this below!
Bob Meucci has an article on deflection you can read here:
http://www.meuccicues.com/deflection.htm
Here's a quote from that article that explains the phenomenon pretty well:
"Cue ball deflection occurs when the cue ball is struck off-center as when English or side spin is applied to the shot. This causes the ball to take a path off-angle, veering in the opposite direction from the side on which it was struck. In other words, strike the cue ball left of center and it will deflect off course to the right of the direction established by the alignment of the shaft.
"Cue ball deflection will vary from very little (1/8 of an inch in the span of 8 feet) to a whopping 1 1/2 inches in the same span. These variations are a result of three factors;
" 1. How far off center the cue ball is struck (left or right); the more off center,
the more deflection.
" 2. The hardness of the surface striking the ball (tip & ferrule) creating varying levels of shock.
" 3. How much force is used when the ball is struck. The more force applied by speed of stroke, the greater the deflection.
"Therefore, when selecting a cue for maximum deflection (which is highly undesirable in my opinion), get one with a stiffly-tapered shaft and a hard tip (13 1/2mm or larger). It should also have a very hard ferrule such as ivory or a phenolic resin type material and a stiff butt-joint such as steel.
"Strike the cue ball off-center 3/8 of an inch; hit it hard and you’ll get maximum deflection. The cue ball will veer off-path from the direction the shaft is pointed by 1 1/2 inches in an 8 ft. span, possibly missing the entire object ball!"
And further on, he writes:
"To test this for yourself, find a cue with a 13 1/2 mm stiffly-tapered shaft with an ivory ferrule or a very hard surfaced ferrule and a stiff joint. Put an object ball on the spot and the cue ball in the center of the table on the foul line. Strike the cue ball 3/8 inches off-center but keep the shaft on line or parallel for a straight-on hit. Hit the cue ball firmly and you will probably cut the object ball 90 degrees or miss the object ball completely. Perform the same exercise with a 4-point Meucci cue and you will cut the object ball off the straight line to the end diamond by no more than one inch, which would still be within the error allowed in a 4 1/2 inch pocket with a 2 1/4 inch ball."
So now you see what I mean about how my cue deflected the object balls badly. Believe me, the deflection was horrendous, so bad I avoided shooting any shots with any english at all unless the ball I was going after was VERY close to a pocket. The result was being limited to shooting center ball shots, which is fine as far as it goes. But sometimes, english is the only way out of a tight situation. Hence the more flexible shafted Meuccis help me pot more balls...
Hope this helps!
Best,
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I don't know about that, but they can be credited for contributing to the low deflection market on the subject of bilge, blather, bunkum, claptrap, drivel, flam, flapdoodle, gammon, gibble-gabble, guff, hokum, humbuggery, jiggery-pokery, piffle, scat, tommyrot, tripe, and twattle.
I seem to remember meucci showing up at the super billiards expo marketing a low deflection shaft that had a dot by the joint. you had to have the dot facing up and you would supposedly get the best hit. lol He also brought some mechanical arm to prove the deflection theory that looked like he made it out of junk he found in a trash can lol but it was a loooonnnngggggg time a go so I could be mistaken.
Edit to say predator was the first I saw selling a low deflection shaft.
I would add "...that actually worked."
Titus was the brain behind and Mc Carthy was the money man. They both did it together. Steve used to hit the balls at Bogarts Cafe in Livonia when he is in Michigan. He used to live in Folrida also. I never heard him speak a word. Very reserved.
Those shafts came into the market in 1993/1994
The world needs more high quality jiggery-pokery.
I had a low deflection shaft about 1980.
I think the first reasonably complete publicly available explanation of the theory of squirt (cue ball deflection) appeared in 2001: http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/Shepard_squirt.pdf
The first ad for Predator cues in Billiards Digest was in June 1995. It included the comment "A full line of 314's will be at your dealer soon." The following issue was the BCA trade show issue and Predator/Clawson had a two-page spread including a picture of Iron Willie. They also attended trade show for the first time that year.
Bob Meucci was the first to experiment with and sell LD shafts.
In the early 80's when I had my shop on Garden of the Gods Rd. in CS, Terry Bell, Larry Hubbard and Jim Rempe would call me from Meuccis' office and explain what they were doing with LD ferrules and shafts.
They were good customers of mine and Bob had convinced them that LD was better.
I couldn't accept it at the time of course but in hindsight I now realize I was wrong.
This was way before anyone else even thought about LD shafts.
Bill S.
In the early 80's when I had my shop on Garden of the Gods Rd. in CS, Terry Bell, Larry Hubbard and Jim Rempe would call me from Meuccis' office and explain what they were doing with LD ferrules and shafts.
They were good customers of mine and Bob had convinced them that LD was better.
I couldn't accept it at the time of course but in hindsight I now realize I was wrong.
This was way before anyone else even thought about LD shafts.
Bill S.
He was talking about it in the mid 70's although it may have just been the beginning of the idea.
So can we safely say that among cue makers Bob Meucci was the first one to publicly address deflection and how to reduce it?
And was he then the first one to claim that his shafts were low deflection (as compared to most other brands on the market at the time)
And then is it fair to say that Steve Titus developed what eventually became the Predator shaft which then started the "performance shaft" era?
Is there any evidence that anyone else was around developing LD shafts before these two?
(I had a 6 and 12 splice pair of Predator shafts in 1994ish - pre 314)
And was he then the first one to claim that his shafts were low deflection (as compared to most other brands on the market at the time)
And then is it fair to say that Steve Titus developed what eventually became the Predator shaft which then started the "performance shaft" era?
Is there any evidence that anyone else was around developing LD shafts before these two?
(I had a 6 and 12 splice pair of Predator shafts in 1994ish - pre 314)