Who's cues hit like (*&%?
- Thread starter 1pRoscoe
- Start date
KeeFy said:
I have several nice customs, Mottey, Bender, Scruggs, Kikel, Olney, etc.
but I feel that Joss and upper end McDermotts hold up very well with these cues.
I have a McDermott Sierra which is a nice hitting cue with
an interesting design.
Certainly agree about Cuetec ( sorry, Travis) and have
come to dislike Lucasi but a lot of folks swear by them.
weeseng said:
LOL
LOL are you sure it wasn't the player that can't pot a ball?? . Actually if I use a predator shaft on my cue, I can't pot a ball. It took me a good year to be able to play with a regular shaft after years of playing with a predator.
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Cuemaster98 said:LOL
i've played with enough cues to know a good one when i play with it.
so are you saying that you've never potted a ball in your years of playing with a predator shaft? 
any cue can hit like crap back when i lived in chicago and played on the south side evryeone was raving about cogs from joey gold..one guy got a plain ebony one that hit like str8 ass.he need cash bad and was selling for 400.00 no one wanted it cuz of the "hit" mike ardon former pro player took it to joeys shop,he did some work on it and it played lights out after that...so who knows i guees hit is all relative to what you like...but i hit with a sanko once that played horrible to me.i had a jim buss hustler that i bought from chris's billiards in downtown chicago that played great....is my old buss hustler with the brass pin still in chicago?
bogey54311 said:i'm a decent player. i have been buying/trading/selling cues for years and years now. i have been able to play with EVERY maker on this earth. took a long time, but the ride has been a blast. i've tried every tip, breakcue, shaft, ferrule, yadayada. here is what i believe i have come up with.
hit is not that subjective.
quick story.......
this year i went to the DCC. i sold 4 gus szamboti's to a friend and delivered them to him there. he also brought 4 of his barry szamboti's with him for me to check out. we took them all one of the nights down to the tables to fool around with them. we both shoot with 314's, so we just kept swapping our one playing shaft with all the different szamboti's. he pulls the last barry out and tells me, for whatever reason, he can't make a ball with this cue. (this guy is a great open player by the way). now all the barry's and gus' that we tried hit about the same. i try the cue he has been having a problem with. guess what, this cue acts TOTALLY diferent. (all the cues had a piloted steel joint). i couldn't control the english as well, and there was more deflection for some reason. the cue had no rattles, nothing was loose. using the barry shaft, it did the same things. tapers seemed the same between the 8 cues. weird. (iv'e seen this type of thing before in other top makers also.) we had a few other people try it, and they all said the same thing.
(i have a million other stories like this, but i picked this on as my example)
i feel from my experience, as a player, and as a cue seller, that when you have an awesome, special, hitting cue, the better players can tell.
and when you have a cue that hits funny for whatever reason, the better players can tell also.
i could not have said these things 5 years ago, because i'm a better player now, and have tried tons and tons of more cues.
i believe when a cue hits good, it hits good.
people like different tapers, softer/harder hits, steel/flatfaced-big pin, i understand that.
but when you try a cue thats a little too stiff for your liking, but hits solid, you can't say thats a bad hitting cue. it's just not for you.
when i try to sell cues, i don't use the lines like "it hits a ton". i try to describe the hit. softer/harder, stiff/whippy, whatever, and let the consumer decide.
(here's where i get in trouble)
i think the lower handicapped players don't really know the difference between these cues.
not because they are dumb, or beginners, but that they have not had the experience.
would love to know what you guys think.
chris G<--------gonna make some people mad
If "hit" equals "performance" then it's not subjective. It's a fact that changes in materials and construction will alter the performance. How much the performance is altered and whether the person playing with the cue can accurately judge that performance difference is the question.
If "hit" equals "experience" then it's subjective.
I think hit is a blend of performance and experience.
When I sell cues in person I do not waste a lot of time in asking people to hit with it. If the prospective buyer does not like the way the cue hits then it doesn't matter how it's made or how pretty it is.
I have a story to add to your story.
Once at a tournament in Germany I had a bunch of cues on display. A player walked up and asked me what I had that had a "soft" hit similar to his Meucci. The closest thing I had to the taper of the Meucci was a Joss and I told him that. I let him try that and he said it was too stiff (hard hitting).
So he continues to browse and he picks up an import brand cue with a literal tree trunk for a shaft. This is without a doubt the thickest taper on a pool cue I have ever seen. He asks me if it's soft or hard hitting. I tell him to take it and shoot with it.
He comes back about 30 minutes later and says that this cue is the best cue he has ever played with. And he buys it. Go figure.
I have had people compare the hit of the same Fury demo cue to their Schons and Meuccis to name a few. That's subjective. I have had other good players come up and say that they can do more with the Fury than they can with their cue. That's objective.
I think that the better a player you are and the more experience with different equipment the more you can judge what a "good" hit is.
As to whose cues hit like crap???? Well it's subjective isn't it? I like Tim Scruggs cues a LOT. His stainless steel piloted ones feel golden to me. His ivory jointed ones are so-so to me. As in I could "force" myself to play with them but would never feel quite "right" about it. My friend who collects Scruggs goes the other direction. But then on the other side I have never met a Scruggs sneaky pete that I didn't LOVE. I have one right here in my office with an ivory joint that is the bomb.
There are so many factors to "hit" that it's truly hard to quantify. Even if you were to find a way to measure performance to the nth degree you'd still find people who would swear by the "worst" cue in the rankings.
I once had a Meucci that I loved. The cue worked for me. It was stolen from the pool room and the owner of the pool room bought me another one. Same model. It arrived and I tried to play with it. Horrible. So bad that I sold it the next day and have never purchased another Meucci since. At the time I was 18ish and didn't have a lot of experience with a lot of different cues. After that Meucci I went back to McDermott.
Now, I can feel when a cue hits like crap and sometimes can actually quantify it or better still figure out the reason and correct it. Loose weight bolts and improperly installed ferrules and tips seem to be common culprits among production cues.
One time I sold a guy a Jacoby. He came back and complained about the way the cue felt. I played with it and "sort" of heard a little buzz to it. We sent it to Dave and he tried to fix it but couldn't the buzz out. So he made a new one and sure enough it played lights out. So sometimes even cuemakers get stymied by nature's tricks. They may use a piece of wood that seems perfectly good and it may take on a life of it's own later.
Well, that's a lot of words to say that hit is still a mystery.
To quote the great George Balabushka, who upon hearing a distinctively audible ping sound coming from a competitor's cue during a pro event, said, "rodden vood, rodden vood".
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Cue sticks
I think it comes down to stroke & practice, so when you are really stroking the balls well, your confidence level is high, and more cues seem to play better.
When you are playing good, they all seem to play good, so you find a good cue that has the right specs, it does everything you want it to do, and you play with even more confidence.
The more I practice, the less often I want to change cues.
Even the brand of tip seems less important because the tip that was on the cue is shaped the way you want it, and whatever it is it works fine.
There are cues that may be too front or back weighted, and various tapers that don't feel right from player to player, but there are a lot of great cues that some players just don't like.
Overall I think a lot of it is subjective or even hearsay.
I own a lot of cues, so I can afford to be objective.
It's possible that a cue made by a great cue builder was ordered with a fat taper, or specifically weighted a certain way that most players wouldn't like, but someone buys it because it was a good deal, or like me who at one time wanted cues from all of these different builders.
I handed a cue that I didn't think played very well to a great player, and he started firing the balls into the pockets, handed it back to me and asked what the problem was, " I could play with this cue".
I attempted to put some of my 4-5-6-and 8 point cues together for a group pic, but I can't figure out how to do it with the camera's I have.
I like the way every one of these cues play
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/cuesblues/?action=tags¤t=Points
I think it comes down to stroke & practice, so when you are really stroking the balls well, your confidence level is high, and more cues seem to play better.
When you are playing good, they all seem to play good, so you find a good cue that has the right specs, it does everything you want it to do, and you play with even more confidence.
The more I practice, the less often I want to change cues.
Even the brand of tip seems less important because the tip that was on the cue is shaped the way you want it, and whatever it is it works fine.
There are cues that may be too front or back weighted, and various tapers that don't feel right from player to player, but there are a lot of great cues that some players just don't like.
Overall I think a lot of it is subjective or even hearsay.
I own a lot of cues, so I can afford to be objective.
It's possible that a cue made by a great cue builder was ordered with a fat taper, or specifically weighted a certain way that most players wouldn't like, but someone buys it because it was a good deal, or like me who at one time wanted cues from all of these different builders.
I handed a cue that I didn't think played very well to a great player, and he started firing the balls into the pockets, handed it back to me and asked what the problem was, " I could play with this cue".
I attempted to put some of my 4-5-6-and 8 point cues together for a group pic, but I can't figure out how to do it with the camera's I have.
I like the way every one of these cues play
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm232/cuesblues/?action=tags¤t=Points
Very interesting thread. The "hit" of a cue is very subjective aspect. But, i will try to give you an insight through an example. The majority here on AZ, we are amateur players who love the game. Others play excellent, others good and others not so good. That's the reason of subjectivity. The best example though is Mika Immonen. He won his only world title in 9-ball using a custom made Capone. Then he quited capone by making a contract wiht Mezz. Where is he now? He forgot how to play pool? Bad luck? Don't think so. Quality is always quality. And one last thing: most of the people here use the term "custom" for really high-end cues made by well-known cuemakers. Indeed they are custom made but for someone else and no you. Custom is to go to a cuemaker and according the way you play and your body structure elements, he creates a cue for you. Thanks. Costas
And i forgot to mention that once in Germany, Reyes won a tournament by using a house cue taken from the bunch, sanded a little to make it smooth, a little tip trim and voila
And i forgot to mention that once in Germany, Reyes won a tournament by using a house cue taken from the bunch, sanded a little to make it smooth, a little tip trim and voila
I've decided that I really don't like this thread . The reason being most of the cues (makers)that people are bashing are probably second hand. The maker has little or no control as to what happens to his product after it leaves the shop so who's to say the cue is as the maker intended.
> I've come up with a few more.
A local "fun" player bought a cue on Ebay from a Florida cuemaker (not Searing,Howard,Omen,or Nitti). It has a very long red/blue butterfly splice down one side,an ivory joint and ferrules. The joint was cracked when he got it. The shafts are B-grade wood,with a taper that suggests they were cut off from a house cue and not even retapered.
All the Cuetec's I've ever picked up played better than that.
Another local has 2 SouthWests that are identical except the weight with linen-based ferrules that play like a McDermott. He has an early 80's Meucci with a Micarta joint and ferrules that plays better,but won't use it.
Only 1 out of the 4 Woody Woodworth cues I've tried was worth paying for. The other 3 I'd have asked for a refund,they sucked that bad.
The steel-jointed Lucasi's I've tried were surprisingly NOT THAT BAD,with better shafts and/or ferrules they'd be just fine. They destroy any McD with the "Masterpiece" joint for sure.
I've only tried one McD with a steel joint that played well,an RS-13.
Huebler's have never impressed me. Tommy D.
A local "fun" player bought a cue on Ebay from a Florida cuemaker (not Searing,Howard,Omen,or Nitti). It has a very long red/blue butterfly splice down one side,an ivory joint and ferrules. The joint was cracked when he got it. The shafts are B-grade wood,with a taper that suggests they were cut off from a house cue and not even retapered.
All the Cuetec's I've ever picked up played better than that.
Another local has 2 SouthWests that are identical except the weight with linen-based ferrules that play like a McDermott. He has an early 80's Meucci with a Micarta joint and ferrules that plays better,but won't use it.
Only 1 out of the 4 Woody Woodworth cues I've tried was worth paying for. The other 3 I'd have asked for a refund,they sucked that bad.
The steel-jointed Lucasi's I've tried were surprisingly NOT THAT BAD,with better shafts and/or ferrules they'd be just fine. They destroy any McD with the "Masterpiece" joint for sure.
I've only tried one McD with a steel joint that played well,an RS-13.
Huebler's have never impressed me. Tommy D.
RD3P
Banned
*Ive never seen a regular schon cue with a inlay flaw.....that stuff just doesnt leave the factory.....I have seen a few schon's marked second(i know a guy who has a few he bought them in milwakee).......and even then your hard pressed to find the flaw....i think they put the wrong inlay on the butt section of one so the cue didnt match the model number it was supposed to be....the other has a chekered ring with like a stress fracture line in it barely noticable...the other nobody can find the flaw in.
sorry but if the cue had obvious flaws it should have been marked #2 on the but plate without a schon logo. if it wasnt you should have sent it back and got a new cue or a refund......i dont buy the warped shaft thing either specially since you say both shafts....i could see one maybee having a very slight taper roll but to say both shafts were warped???????? Why did you buy this cue if it was so bad?????
if your schon had flaws it should have been marked with a #2
there quality control is one of the best in the industry.
there fit and finish is very good from what ive seen in every schon. they are one the most consistant cue makers out there.
no offence but for some reason i dont believe you.
just hitting a couple balls with a cue isnt enuff time spent....
as long as a cue doesnt rattle and buzz and the inlays and ringwork isnt popping throu the finish then they are fine imo.
you just have to build a relationship with the cue....wich is more then hitting a few balls
sorry i dug this thread up
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Here so short a time and already knocking the elders. Nutsy. Maybe he bought it off of someone. Think outside the box.
Hard to say, too many factors...........
I've hit with a decent amount of customs out there and for the most part I'd say they were all really well made. The only ones I can say that hit like they were hollow inside no matter what shaft you put on em or tip etc, were the cues from the Philippines that are sold regularly on ebay. I can play with em, but I'd rather pick one off the wall at the local pool hall.
I've hit with a decent amount of customs out there and for the most part I'd say they were all really well made. The only ones I can say that hit like they were hollow inside no matter what shaft you put on em or tip etc, were the cues from the Philippines that are sold regularly on ebay. I can play with em, but I'd rather pick one off the wall at the local pool hall.
RD3P
Banned
i dont care how long hes been here....
ive been reading this site since it started...but never signed up. since it seems to matter to you.
you ever seen a schon with inlay flaws not marked #2????
i havent....better yet,
you ever seen someone buy a new cue with flaws and not send it back to the manufacture or retailer for a refund...and then gripe about there piss poor crooked cue, with shotty inlay work, and how poor it hits on the internet pool forum but they actually bought the cue, why did be buy it? better yet who buys a playing cue without hitting with it first???
reminds me of a guy who bashes chevy and tells everyone not to buy one because the motors blow.....but he bought the car used with no service records and only test drove it around the block.
i dont get some people i guess. mattter of fact id like to see picturs of peoples schon cues with manufacturers flaws.
Pistol pat you mean cues like "Audrick" they look fancy but have piss poor wood in them...they play good for a few months then fall apart. now thats a bad cue
ive been reading this site since it started...but never signed up. since it seems to matter to you.
you ever seen a schon with inlay flaws not marked #2????
i havent....better yet,
you ever seen someone buy a new cue with flaws and not send it back to the manufacture or retailer for a refund...and then gripe about there piss poor crooked cue, with shotty inlay work, and how poor it hits on the internet pool forum but they actually bought the cue, why did be buy it? better yet who buys a playing cue without hitting with it first???
reminds me of a guy who bashes chevy and tells everyone not to buy one because the motors blow.....but he bought the car used with no service records and only test drove it around the block.
i dont get some people i guess. mattter of fact id like to see picturs of peoples schon cues with manufacturers flaws.
Pistol pat you mean cues like "Audrick" they look fancy but have piss poor wood in them...they play good for a few months then fall apart. now thats a bad cue
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When was the last time you saw a 5xx SW?
I have a SW and the pin # is 512-95
Mine is a 1993:
Very interesting thread. The "hit" of a cue is very subjective aspect. But, i will try to give you an insight through an example. The majority here on AZ, we are amateur players who love the game. Others play excellent, others good and others not so good. That's the reason of subjectivity. The best example though is Mika Immonen. He won his only world title in 9-ball using a custom made Capone. Then he quited capone by making a contract wiht Mezz. Where is he now? He forgot how to play pool? Bad luck? Don't think so. Quality is always quality. And one last thing: most of the people here use the term "custom" for really high-end cues made by well-known cuemakers. Indeed they are custom made but for someone else and no you. Custom is to go to a cuemaker and according the way you play and your body structure elements, he creates a cue for you. Thanks. Costas
And i forgot to mention that once in Germany, Reyes won a tournament by using a house cue taken from the bunch, sanded a little to make it smooth, a little tip trim and voila
i thought it was funny that i ran into this right after i read that mika won 2 back to back us opens with his mezz