Why does old wood hit so good?

Impact Blue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sorry if it sounds like a strange question, but I was (practically) given this shaft by a cuemaker's son a while ago: some 30+ year old curly maple, taken down to about 12.5mm. It has a slight roll to it, it's really dark in color (very beeeautiful, IMO), and the hit is incredible; you can just feel it ping right through the hand. The lighter I grip the cue, the more it sizzles on the knuckles.

Anyway, I was wondering why this might be. I have tried many shafts, and having realized that they were mostly new in production, I was curious as to what happens to wood with this kind of age. Is there anyway you can replicate that? (maybe that's why older cues are so sought after...hmmm.)
 
well. older more seasoned wood. also darker is closer to the middle which also + older and more dense. there is a recent craze over snow white shafts with no marks. recent means last 10+ years. i personally like the darker more grainy shafts. but with that you get some marks and most dont like that
 
Speaking of old.

How do you tell the difference between early Franklin and early Kersenbrock. Which has more value?
 
i would think some mistakes are made. i think there are a few subtle differences. just gotta know what to look for. i would think the franklins are worth more. see more of them then kers tho. guess it depends on cue to cue and person to person.

only true way to know is contact laurie i would tthink
 
Old wood has aged, like fine wine. We just did some cues from blanks that have waited patiently for the last pass for 30 years as well, ands the outcome was nothing less than fantastic.
 
beating_a_dead_horse.jpg
 
Sorry if it sounds like a strange question, but I was (practically) given this shaft by a cuemaker's son a while ago: some 30+ year old curly maple, taken down to about 12.5mm. It has a slight roll to it, it's really dark in color (very beeeautiful, IMO), and the hit is incredible; you can just feel it ping right through the hand. The lighter I grip the cue, the more it sizzles on the knuckles.

Anyway, I was wondering why this might be. I have tried many shafts, and having realized that they were mostly new in production, I was curious as to what happens to wood with this kind of age. Is there anyway you can replicate that? (maybe that's why older cues are so sought after...hmmm.)

I don't know that it is true but years ago Rocky Tillis used to get cues from the pool room that had enough meat in them to turn true. He liked cues that had been in the pool room for years and had decent grain. When he found one he bought it on the spot. I have to tell you, they made some great shafts. He made me a shaft for a Joss I had just gotten that I hated. That old house cue shaft made all the difference.
 
I don't know that it is true but years ago Rocky Tillis used to get cues from the pool room that had enough meat in them to turn true. He liked cues that had been in the pool room for years and had decent grain. When he found one he bought it on the spot. I have to tell you, they made some great shafts. He made me a shaft for a Joss I had just gotten that I hated. That old house cue shaft made all the difference.

Makes a lot of sense.
Really, old wood are denser imo. Which is funny b/c the deflection police would hate their weight.
 
It's nothing to do with age. It's all in the processing. Old wood was quarter sawn & traditional kiln or air dried, hence the yellow. It was also big trees with heart wood. Nowadays only the sapwoood is used, often times flat sawn for high yields instead of quality yields, and it's then vacuum dried. So it's not the age that changed the wood but more how we have changed how we process & choose wood.
 
old wood

i found a dealer in antique pool tables that says he has hundreds of old one piece cues from the 1920's. i have been buying them 100 at a time looking for wood for my shafts. most are just firewood, but about 10% make great shafts.
i have found a few with 30 to 35 growth rings, most are the color of honey. dark, dense, and dry. as long as the supply last, its the only shaft i'm going to use. chuck
 
It's nothing to do with age. It's all in the processing.

I disagree. Not the age of the wood mind you, but the age of the tree it came from. There is no (practical) supply of true, old-growth maple in the US. (now most of it comes from Canada) What little there is, is predominantly in our tiny national parks. I believe the age of the harvested wood helps, in that the wood will be VERY stable through-n-through. I had often thought old OLD OLD cues would make exceptional shaft wood- great for those that have no veneers in the splice or just are beat up in general. Curt right above the splice, that can be turned to a clean 30" blank easily.

Old wood was quarter sawn & traditional kiln or air dried, hence the yellow. It was also big trees with heart wood.

For the sake of a shaft, 1/4 or flat sawn makes not practical difference. Select your flat sawn 1+" wide boards carefully, rip them into 1" squares, and turn 90 degrees and you have a 1/4 sawn blank. It's truly magical. It is true that flat sawing is done for greater yield from a log; however with so few good logs, you cannot expect a modern mill to waste literally tons of perfectly good wood to get a few 1/4 sawn pieces(but some do, and you pay for it). Select them by hand, and know what to look for.

I also agree drying ANY wood too quickly is not good. Vacuum kiln or plain old air kiln drying is OK if dome properly, with CARE for the wood, and not so much for production. I definitely prefer air-dried (such as OLD cues were) but it is nearly impossible to find. When we hang our shaft blanks and other cue assemblies and parts, we are essentially air-drying them. Take a cut, age it. Take a cut, age it. It takes forever to make a cue, but if you age it carefully, it will last forever...

When I made guitars, I used 1/4 sawn planks for the neck blanks. Then I learned I can use less expensive flat sawn beams ripped and turned on edge. I then discovered laminated necks were even more stable stable. So, I began laminating them with Walnut, and buying less expensive boards rather than beams. I have ended up with the most stable neck out there. I just dug out some blanks that have been neglected for 5-7 years and they are still as straight as the day I made them.


Nowadays only the sapwood is used, often times flat sawn for high yields instead of quality yields, and it's then vacuum dried. So it's not the age that changed the wood but more how we have changed how we process & choose wood.

Both sap and heart wood is used (unless you meant for shafts specifically)- again, a mil won't throw away all that lumber! I got a lot of my wood from a mill that did predominantly wood flooring. (you would not believe what some people walk on) and I had my pick of the litter- the curly, bird's eye and burled/crotched wood was not wanted for flooring, because it stood out too much among the other cleaner boards. Their loss was my gain! But to the point- the entire log would come into his mill, and be processed in-house. He had his own kiln (not vacuum) and dried them himself. I liked getting wood from him because it was always quality stuff- sap and heart wood. He loved the wood- and quality was never an issue because of it.

Back to the age thing, the older growth wood tends to have a higher count of growth rings, which many cue makers want in a shaft. I think it is a good idea as well, because it reduces the amount of run-off in the taper. Color is less important to me, but I agree nearly everyone wants snow-white shafts with no 'character' in it. Because of this, many makers are bleaching their shafts as well, and I REALLY disagree with this practice...

Who started the whole "Whiter is better" thing anyway???:mad:
 
I had often thought old OLD OLD cues would make exceptional shaft wood- great for those that have no veneers in the splice or just are beat up in general. Curt right above the splice, that can be turned to a clean 30" blank easily.

I had thought this for years too. But it seems nobody really does it, other than Desi.

Am I goofy or does this sound like a potential golden goose?

Ken
 
I had thought this for years too. But it seems nobody really does it, other than Desi.

Am I goofy or does this sound like a potential golden goose?

Ken

I don't know but I do know that a lot of race engine builders will get a block in, tear it down to bare, degrease it and throw it into the back yard to 'weather' for a few years before they machine it into an engine again.

So, what does surface rust do that is good for cast iron?:confused: I have no idea, and perhaps they don't either. But, the point is, particularly in cue making, I don't think ANYTHING is too goofy...

I personally like the idea of using ancient wood for the shaft...:thumbup:
 
I don't know but I do know that a lot of race engine builders will get a block in, tear it down to bare, degrease it and throw it into the back yard to 'weather' for a few years before they machine it into an engine again.

So, what does surface rust do that is good for cast iron?:confused: I have no idea, and perhaps they don't either. But, the point is, particularly in cue making, I don't think ANYTHING is too goofy...

I personally like the idea of using ancient wood for the shaft...:thumbup:


No kidding? Wow. I didn't know that about engines. That is a concept that sounds far from what I would've thought. The eternal search for the unmistakable feature we call 'quality' is something that cannot be merely inserted as we see fit. That is why I tend to respect and admire my cue maker the way I do. On some cues, it takes him a year to make, simply because he is in no rush. Those are the cues that turn out the best.

To me, there is something incredibly spiritual about cue building in relation to sword making as well as any other approach to crafting. Traditionally, black smiths sat in meditation for an extended period of time and conceived their final product even before they began. This process of awakening or enlightenment was not easily attained. Many hours of disciplined focus and concentration were required. The combination of sacred minerals and the purity of the fire is what gave the maker his 'blank' from which to begin. With the combination of these elements, some incredibly beautiful and eternal pieces were built. What the true sword maker understood was that there was a 'root' from which that sword was to be borne from, not just a copy or a replica of another.

When it comes to anything 'aged' or 'seasoned', such as a 'broken in pair of boots', or your favorite pair of jeans, or .. what about that good ol' trusty lawn mower? there is no comparison, and there is no mistaking that type of quality, and familiarity and simply put, it just feels better.

I eat what is called Kimchi. It is one of the most popular and traditional Korean dishes. It is seasoned cabbage that is fermented to give it flavor, depth and richness. This same fermentation process is evident in the process of making many other foods and is no big secret to the world. I believe it has something to do with the spark of activity among the sugar. When it reaches it's peak of activity, it calms down and becomes 'aged'. It is no big secret that 'older is better'. To me, the older and wiser something is, the better off you'll be. Young = stupid.

When it comes to particular items of nature, such as wood, I believe that there comes a point where the spirit of that piece has lived long enough to have attained 'enlightenment' or 'maturity'. Once this point of maturity has been reached, it has very little reason to change properties. That maturity is also a trait among humans and we call it character. Once acquired, it is very firm and solid without the danger of warping or 'going bad'. The blending of two into one is what we all strive for to better understand true quality.

To me, what happens, is when when you don't take the proper steps to blend two separate items with care, you get something that is incredibly unnatural and that is something that even the simplest human can detect.
 
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