why the facination with fast cloth?

[sooperstroke]

wouldnt slow cloth be favorable for the player with the better stroke? And everyone would love to have a buddy hall stroke but how can we get those if we only play and practice on superfast simonis?

The reason I ask is because im refelting my home table soon and im thinkin about going with a superslow cloth instead of simonis again. I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

 

[JamisonNeu]

This is a good idea for your stroke...Im sure you can find a place in your area sporting some slow cloth on their tables already. I would think that staying in stroke on the faster stuff is more important.

 

[Descente36]

A fast felt allows for better cueball positioning, it'll also give the advantage to the player with better speed control-better for distinguishing skill than slow cloth. Also, just about every major tournament will be using the simonis felt, it's going to be a pain adapting from a super slow cloth. If you want to develop a more powerful stroke, just start slamming balls into a corner pocket.

 

[realkingcobra]

wouldnt slow cloth be favorable for the player with the better stroke? And everyone would love to have a buddy hall stroke but how can we get those if we only play and practice on superfast simonis?

The reason I ask is because im refelting my home table soon and im thinkin about going with a superslow cloth instead of simonis again. I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

Let me get this straight...you think that a slower playing cloth is going to help you improve your playing skills...right?...as in a better stroke for like draw shots, follow, and other english shots?

So, a year of playing on the worlds slowest playing cloth...would give you an advantage over other players that don't play on it...like SVB, JA...and countless others?

Fast and slow cloth, is like playing on different tables...if you can play...you bring your STROKE with you...if you can't stroke the ball, then slow cloth is not going to hurt you, nor help.

The one common denominator to a pool player...is the ability to ADAPT to the table you're playing on...the one that is right there in front of you at the time you're playing.

Stop looking for an excuse as to why you play the way you do, and have the stroke you have....put in the time practicing and you won't be thinking like this.

Glen

 

[sooperstroke]

This is a good idea for your stroke...Im sure you can find a place in your area sporting some slow cloth on their tables already. I would think that staying in stroke on the faster stuff is more important.

No one does. and wouldnt showing up early and warming up on the fast stuff help with the adjustment?

A fast felt allows for better cueball positioning, it'll also give the advantage to the player with better speed control-better for distinguishing skill than slow cloth. Also, just about every major tournament will be using the simonis felt, it's going to be a pain adapting from a super slow cloth. If you want to develop a more powerful stroke, just start slamming balls into a corner pocket.

Yes every "major" tournamnet is using fast cloth. But how does that affect me? im not planning on playin in the US open anytime soon. And slow or fast cloth the player with better cueball control will win anyways.

Let me get this straight...you think that a slower playing cloth is going to help you improve your playing skills...right?...as in a better stroke for like draw shots, follow, and other english shots?

So, a year of playing on the worlds slowest playing cloth...would give you an advantage over other players that don't play on it...like SVB, JA...and countless others?

Fast and slow cloth, is like playing on different tables...if you can play...you bring your STROKE with you...if you can't stroke the ball, then slow cloth is not going to hurt you, nor help.

The one common denominator to a pool player...is the ability to ADAPT to the table you're playing on...the one that is right there in front of you at the time you're playing.

Stop looking for an excuse as to why you play the way you do, and have the stroke you have....put in the time practicing and you won't be thinking like this.

Glen

Who said anything about JA or SVB? Im thinking about my game not theirs. And if adapting is the major factor then you just inadvertantly proved my point. I should switch up cloth every few years and get more comfortable with each one rather than just stick with simonis for life. Im not looking for excuses and thiers nothing wrong with the way I play. Im just looking to get better.

Besides, only the major tournamnets use simonis all the time and I dont think my choice of cloth is gonna effect wether or not I win one of those tourneys or not.

Im gonna practice either way but id like to get the most out of my practice while im at it.


I can adjust for overstroking the ball but I cant show up and stroke shots that are out of my range.

 

[sooperstroke]

I was just curious as to why everyone loves fast cloth so much. Everyone begs for tighter pockets and less luck in the rules, why not slower cloth too?

 

[manwon]

wouldnt slow cloth be favorable for the player with the better stroke? And everyone would love to have a buddy hall stroke but how can we get those if we only play and practice on superfast simonis?

The reason I ask is because im refelting my home table soon and im thinkin about going with a superslow cloth instead of simonis again. I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

I personally think that fast Cloth is the way to go for any player. The most important fact is that you don't have to hit the balls as hard which alone increases your accuracy whether your spinning the ball or rolling it in.

JIMO

 

[JoeyInCali]

No such thing as fast cloth.
There's good cloth and baaaad ones.

 

[realkingcobra]

I was just curious as to why everyone loves fast cloth so much. Everyone begs for tighter pockets and less luck in the rules, why not slower cloth too?

The IPT wanted to change the cloth to some shag carpet sloooooooow playing cloth too, only problem was...that you had to PAY people to play on the cloth. When the IPT didn't last, neither did the cloth...but maybe someone out here still has some of that cloth and would be willing to sell you some

I look at slow playing cloth as a step backwards in this industry and as a table mechanic...I won't install the IPT cloth on a table.

Glen

 

[cheapcues.com]

I'm not sure what the slowest is, but I think Mercury is pretty slow.

 

[Descente36]

People are going to hate playing on your table. Unless you plan on playing alone for the rest of your life why not get something that's mainstream. All a fast felt does is give the same result with less effort. It seems you don't have much control when stroking softly so you need the slow felt to compensate. If your stroke is straight-it's straight. A felt is not going to change your stroke. The only difference is that you'll be banging balls on the slow felt to get them the same distance a light push will get on a fast felt

 

[barber23]

All I can tell you is that most of the places we play league here has really slow cloth and when I go to a tournament that has fast cloth there is some time needed before the tournament to get in a good stroke.

Chad

 

[Majic]

SLOW might be ok on a smaller table but you will really have to let your stroke out to move the rock around on a 9 footer. Its all good though If you want advice on which cloth is slow , see Dartman in the mechanics area. He is the senzei of pool cloth.

 

[3andstop]

IMO, and as mentioned, the slower the cloth, the harder you have to hit the CB to move it around the table and the harder you have to hit the CB the harder it is to maintain accuracy.

 

[ShootingArts]

You have a valid point

wouldnt slow cloth be favorable for the player with the better stroke? And everyone would love to have a buddy hall stroke but how can we get those if we only play and practice on superfast simonis?

The reason I ask is because im refelting my home table soon and im thinkin about going with a superslow cloth instead of simonis again. I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

You do have a valid point. A larger table or deeper cloth forces you to develop a stronger stroke and still stroke accurately to make the same shots. That is a gain. However, while you are practicing on this deep cloth you are losing practice time on the fast cloth and in today's pool world of glass fast cloth touch is far more important than power. If you want to put the slow cloth on and you are still going to practice or play at least one-fourth of the time, measured in hours spent on the table, on fast cloth then do it.

I derived great benefit from playing on a ridiculously tight snooker table several hours a day for several years. It changed my stroke, my aim, even my stance. I shot pool style on it with a pool stick but it still changed everything I did. I gained benefit from it roughly equivalent to cross training though because for every hour I spent on the snooker table I spent three or four on pool tables.

My opinion, there are gains to be had playing on the slow cloth, just like there are gains to be had playing on extremely tight playing pockets. However, both of these things make changes in your game, some that are hard to recognize, that might be disadvantages when you play on standard tables against people that only play on standard tables. Shot selection, the way you play shots, and the way you play shape all change. This becomes ingrained behavior so that it is automatic to play this style even though the table doesn't demand it. When playing on a "softer" table your shot selection or shape play may not be as good as someone used to playing on the softer table.

If I ever have the room for it I want a five by ten with fairly slow cloth. I'll be happy with a pool or snooker table that size. It will have some benefits for my game but I am aware that if I become accustomed to only that one "gaff" table it will harm some aspects of my game too. The main reason I want the table is for personal pleasure and from that aspect things like slow cloth, unusual tables, one off cues, are all justifiable.

Hu

 

[td873]

wouldnt slow cloth be favorable for the player with the better stroke? And everyone would love to have a buddy hall stroke but how can we get those if we only play and practice on superfast simonis?

The reason I ask is because im refelting my home table soon and im thinkin about going with a superslow cloth instead of simonis again. I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

IMO, you need faster cloth for most of today's games. With slow cloth, 8-ball and 9-ball become 1/2 table games. This actually makes it MORE difficult to play. You might be able to get away with slow cloth in 1-pocket or 14.1, but there is more to pool than the speed of the cloth.

Also:
1) The speed of the cloth limits how far you can move the cue ball, NOT how good your stroke is.
2) There are some shots you can only do on a fast cloth, thus your arsenal is going to be limited by playing on slow cloth.
3) More places have fast(ish) cloth. Because the balls play differently on fast cloth than slow, if you practice on slow, you will be at a distinct disadvantage when you step into a pool hall.

-td

 

[TATE]

wouldnt slow cloth be favorable for the player with the better stroke? And everyone would love to have a buddy hall stroke but how can we get those if we only play and practice on superfast simonis?

The reason I ask is because im refelting my home table soon and im thinkin about going with a superslow cloth instead of simonis again. I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

I would concentrate on tight pockets as a game improver, and decent rails, but for sure not slow cloth. Do you really want that old Mali felt on your table pilling up instead of a nice, tightly stretched worsted wool?

I always thought slow tables were easy compared to fast ones. You can kill so many shots that angle becomes a joke. You can get off angles on relatively straight shots and still stop the cueball.

On a fast table, you deveop skills like going extra rails, getting high spin on low speed shots, killing speed to control the cueball, stuff like that.

I will say that I would not want a cloth that "grabs" the cue ball. The red cloth at Hollywood Billiards has so much texture that half the stroke is necessary on draw shots because it grabs so quickly.

Chris

 

[accustatsfan]

wouldnt slow cloth be favorable for the player with the better stroke? And everyone would love to have a buddy hall stroke but how can we get those if we only play and practice on superfast simonis?

The reason I ask is because im refelting my home table soon and im thinkin about going with a superslow cloth instead of simonis again. I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

I went your route with the slower cloth for the same reasons. Yes you will develop a more powerful stroke, but you might find trouble when you play anywhere else because of the faster conditions. That powerful stroke really isn't needed anymore.

I switched to blue Simonis 860HR (great cloth).

I do find it odd that some pro players at major tournaments say they want tight pockets to give accuracy a advantage, but don't want a slower cloth and tight pockets to give power and accuracy an advantage. Watching the IPT it seemed to give them problems with a slower cloth.

 

[mullyman]

wouldnt slow cloth be favorable for the player with the better stroke? And everyone would love to have a buddy hall stroke but how can we get those if we only play and practice on superfast simonis?

The reason I ask is because im refelting my home table soon and im thinkin about going with a superslow cloth instead of simonis again. I want to develop a more powerful stroke and i think the slower the cloth the better. what do you think?

and whats the slowest cloth out there?

Ok, no matter how I say this I'm going to sound like an egomaniac. I played our local AZer MonChiWai a few weeks ago. Although I was in poor form he did make one comment about my play "Mully has a super smooth stroke that seems to make the cueball go wherever he wants it effortlessly" That's sort of a quote. I appreciate that comment from him too. I've put a lot of work into my stroke and I can tell you that it wasn't done on super slow cloth. In no way, shape, or form am I comparing myself to Buddy Hall, but in all my years his is the stroke that I've tried to emulate. It's funny you mention a powerful stroke and Buddy Hall in the same sentence because they are as far apart as vanilla ice cream and chili sauce. Buddy doesn't have a powerful stroke, he has a very smooth, controlled stroke. I've watched thousands of hours of Buddy's play and I can tell you that the man does not use a power stroke on anything. I've seen him do full table length draw shots and it looked like he barely tapped the ball. His stroke is true. In pool you don't need power. The more power you use the more chances you have of missing the shot. Stroke that ball true though and miracles can happen. I showed a few stroke shots to MonChiWai while we were in Tokyo and he couldn't believe that I could get so much distance/action on the cueball with such a soft stroke.

I think putting carpet on your pool table is a mistake. But, from reading your responses to people you already have your mind made up on it. I don't know why you even bothered asking anyone's opinion to be honest.
MULLY

 

[Tin Man]

go slow

My table at home has simonis on it but after a few years of heavy practice it is playing pretty slow. I have resisted changing it for the very reason OP started this thread.

I firmly believe that slow cloth improves your game. My table has pockets that are reasonably tight but the speed of the cloth makes them even tougher. When you have to shoot firmly the pockets tighten up, and if a ball scrapes the cushion coming down the rail it picks up reverse spin and bobbles out as opposed to sliding in. To make it even more difficult you really have to account for the curving path of the cueball any time you roll a ball with english, whereas on freshly set up diamond pro tables the cueball slides all of the way to the object ball. I feel that practicing on a slow table forces you to acquire good angles, a strong stroke, and a lot of feel for these reasons.

On the occasions that I do get to pro tournaments I have never had any trouble adjusting to the equipment. Because my rails are lively I still play for similar angles, I just get to hit the balls more softly (and I have never had any problem with my touch). My accuracy improves and the pockets are much more forgiving. It is like going to a bar table in that layouts that would be very demanding on my table become a shoot and stop proposition. Playing world class competition is demanding enough mentally, it is nice to have the physical game seem easier.

This assumes that you use balance, meaning that of course you have to play on a variety of equipment. If all you do is play on tight pockets you can lose confidence and mess up your shot selection by skewing your percentages. I think it goes without saying that you must log hours on the equipment that you wish to compete on. That said, I would encourage our original poster to stick to his guns on this one.

One afterthought on this is that if you already have a strong stroke and are lacking finesse it might make more sense to have a quick cloth. For my, I have always had a soft touch but used to lose accuracy quickly when I had to shoot firmly. Slow cloth became one of my best allies in developing that skill.

***EDITED to add this comment: Slow is relative- my cloth is still simonis, it is just old and tired and nothing like a new table. If you play on shag carpet on which draw is impossible from half court that may be going to far.