Will the Team USA ever win another mosconi cup?

sjm said:
The USA will win one of these Mosconi Cups, but they will be underdogs for many years to come unless America stops living in denial about the state of its professional play. The American professional playing community has been focusing on tweaking the game, the rules, and the equipment to suit themselves. As Jay Helfert has often said, no matter the equipment, no matter the rules, no matter the length of race, the cream rises to the top in competition. The same guys, for the most part, will win.

The worst part of what's going on with American pool is the relative absence of any young players who look like future world beaters. Shane is one of the greats already, Mike Dechaine looks like a very solid young player, and I'm impressed with what I've seen of John "Hennessee" Pinegar, but not many young American players are wowing me right now. I remember watching the 19 year old Earl Strickland, the 18 year old Allen Hopkins, and the 23 year old Mike Sigel. Despite their youth, each of them could take on virtually all comers way back when. Where are the young Americans who can do the same? Only Shane qualifies.

The American system is not producing many premier players anymore and the reasons nees to be studied. Time honored methods for instruction, practice, and preparation need to be reviewed, critiqued, and where necessary, revised, if we're ever to catch up with Europe and Asia. If it is broken, fix it!
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I'm sure everybody agrees that we are lacking when it comes to great young players. But I really don't see a fix for this. There's NO MONEY in the game here in the U.S. We can talk until we are blue in the font about all the changes we need to make in order to become more competitive international, but that's really not how it works in the U.S. Without some financial incentive kids will not be drawn to our sport. If we had a legitimate professional tour with money to make - great new players would be popping up all over the place. Of course we don't have that and it may be a LOOOONG time before we ever do.

So, we are pretty much stuck with the few "weird" kids that just can't help themselves. These kids just have to play and they don't care about the lack of a financial incentive. To me, this has always been a bit charming but I'm not so certain I would want my own child to pursue such an endeavor.
 
BasementDweller said:
I'm sure everybody agrees that we are lacking when it comes to great young players. But I really don't see a fix for this. There's NO MONEY in the game here in the U.S. We can talk until we are blue in the font about all the changes we need to make in order to become more competitive international, but that's really not how it works in the U.S. Without some financial incentive kids will not be drawn to our sport. If we had a legitimate professional tour with money to make - great new players would be popping up all over the place. Of course we don't have that and it may be a LOOOONG time before we ever do.

So, we are pretty much stuck with the few "weird" kids that just can't help themselves. These kids just have to play and they don't care about the lack of a financial incentive. To me, this has always been a bit charming but I'm not so certain I would want my own child to pursue such an endeavor.
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Yours is a well-considered post. Your point that players would pop up all over the place if the sport had more money in it is correct, as the IPT experiment poved, but ultimately the point is not important. That's putting the cart before the horse. Pool is a product that is broken, and until it is fixed, it won't sell.
 
Fact is that the USA could have done better. They simply blew it. Any one of the guys on the USA team can win any given set against anyone on the Euro team. They have all beaten each other at times and will continue to do so. Yes the Euros are probably sharper overall since they do have a functioning tour that they play on in addition to international events and the fact that they also play in all the major us events. But still at this level the USA players are just as capable, especially in the short sets. A roll here and there, a mistake here and there and the set changes direction in a heart beat.

Just make it so that the five highest finishing Americans make the team and leave it at that. Let them choose the captain they want and go to it.
 
the lose is more of a reflection of the broken system that is american pool.

Nick and Niels, for example, have support from thier country, the netherlands, with coaching, some monetary support (i believe), etc. which not only keeps them sharp but allows them to travel and compete internationally.

if you're an american and wanted to play in any of the events in asia it's on your own dime.

i think oscar in the tarcast mentioned how in a world event all the euros from the same country came out dressed the same while the americans all had on thier own mismatched outfits.

there just isnt any type of unity or sense of team or country. broken system.
 
JB Cases said:
Fact is that the USA could have done better. They simply blew it. Any one of the guys on the USA team can win any given set against anyone on the Euro team. They have all beaten each other at times and will continue to do so. Yes the Euros are probably sharper overall since they do have a functioning tour that they play on in addition to international events and the fact that they also play in all the major us events. But still at this level the USA players are just as capable, especially in the short sets. A roll here and there, a mistake here and there and the set changes direction in a heart beat.

Just make it so that the five highest finishing Americans make the team and leave it at that. Let them choose the captain they want and go to it.
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Coulda woulda shouda. After watching this Mosconi cup I think that the Americans have finally started to descend for a long term to come. Even in short races, EurUP will win over the long haul, so I believe your point is silly.
 
JB Cases said:
Fact is that the USA could have done better. They simply blew it. Any one of the guys on the USA team can win any given set against anyone on the Euro team. They have all beaten each other at times and will continue to do so. Yes the Euros are probably sharper overall since they do have a functioning tour that they play on in addition to international events and the fact that they also play in all the major us events. But still at this level the USA players are just as capable, especially in the short sets. A roll here and there, a mistake here and there and the set changes direction in a heart beat.

Just make it so that the five highest finishing Americans make the team and leave it at that. Let them choose the captain they want and go to it.
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On any given day:

a fresh lil 10 will launch her panties your way instead of at Just in Beaver

there will be peace on earth and good will twixt men

we'll have honest politicians who have our best interests at heart

etc., etc., etc.,

BUT, are any of the above probable??

If we fielded 5 players the ilk of SVB & JA our probability of winning would increase to apprx 50%.

BTW, ES is of that ilk, CD (when he's playing is close), from there it's a crapshot.
 
I didn't watch a lot of it, but the impression I got from the little i saw is the US just don't have the players to compete with the British, let alone the whole of europe. You looked amateurish; desperate, almost.

I don't believe your fundamentals are strong enough. I think years of teaching 'the pool stance', rather than the snooker stance, has come home to haunt you.

You need to change.
 
I wold like to see this line up since they r playing 9b using a cut break
Corey
Earl
SVB
Archer
Hatch
But that is just me
 
PoolBum said:
You left out gouda. It's a cheese. Goes well with whine.
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I have actually visited the Dutch city of Gouda, from which the cheese derives, and they pronounce it how-da. Of course, in Flemish, the letter "g" is pronounced like an English "h". Hence, it's OK to say gow-da when speaking English, but not goo-da. Bottom line, doesn't rhyme with woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Goes well with whine? Now that made me laugh!
 
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Congratz to Europe, Id of loved to see the USA win as they did in '09, but the fact is ,they were out shot this go around ,likewise in 2010..

As was mentioned prior, I dont believe USA sent there best line for the Mosconi 2011,, though if they had ,they still wasnt bowling over Europe , they have some great talent,to state the obvious ..
 
sjm said:
I have actually visited the Dutch city of Gouda, from which the cheese derives, and they pronounce it how-da. Of course, in Flemish, the letter "g" is pronounced like an English "h". Hence, it's OK to say gow-da when speaking English, but not goo-da. Bottom line, doesn't rhyme with woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Goes well with whine? Now that made me laugh!
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That's ok, I can blame the Dutch now for my lack of a sense of humor.
 
sjm said:
I have actually visited the Dutch city of Gouda, from which the cheese derives, and they pronounce it how-da. Of course, in Flemish, the letter "g" is pronounced like an English "h". Hence, it's OK to say gow-da when speaking English, but not goo-da. Bottom line, doesn't rhyme with woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Goes well with whine? Now that made me laugh!
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I thought it worked both ways, but then again, I am very easy to please.
 
TheThaiger said:
I didn't watch a lot of it, but the impression I got from the little i saw is the US just don't have the players to compete with the British, let alone the whole of europe. You looked amateurish; desperate, almost.

I don't believe your fundamentals are strong enough. I think years of teaching 'the pool stance', rather than the snooker stance, has come home to haunt you.

You need to change.
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Sure. Seems like the "pool stance" worked well enough for the USA's players to amass quite a bit of tournament victory hardware. And the European players don't all use a snooker stance either. Even Darren doesn't use a snooker stance.

You telling the USA that their fundamentals aren't strong enough is truly a joke of the highest caliber, well it would be if it were funny.

I don't know how you play but I really doubt you are good enough to even dream of competing with any of the guys on the American team.

But analyze it how you want to. Armchair quarterbacks never miss a TD.
 
JB Cases said:
I don't know how you play but I really doubt you are good enough to even dream of competing with any of the guys on the American team.
.
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Possibly not, but gotama clearly is, and his take on it is the same as mine. You don't know how I shoot, but I've seen you play and, well, I'd be keeping quiet about how well others play if I were you...

I'm embarrassed when I see some Americans address the ball. Embarrassed when I read the 'how to stand' part of Ray Martin's book. I think you called it wrong decades ago and can't now backpedal. You now have two choices - 1. carry on as you are, your influence in world pool becoming ever more diminished, or 2. objectively analyse why you're not producing world class players like other nations are.
 
TheThaiger said:
I didn't watch a lot of it, but the impression I got from the little i saw is the US just don't have the players to compete with the British, let alone the whole of europe. You looked amateurish; desperate, almost.

I don't believe your fundamentals are strong enough. I think years of teaching 'the pool stance', rather than the snooker stance, has come home to haunt you.

You need to change.
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What is the overall record of the Mosconic again?


Year Venue Victors Score Losers Ref
1994 Romford, London, England USA 16 12 Europe [4]
1995 Basildon, Essex, England Europe 16 15 USA [5]
1996 Dagenham, London, England USA 15 13 Europe [6]
1997 Bethnal Green, London, England USA 13 8 Europe [7]
1998 Bethnal Green, London, England USA 13 9 Europe [8]
1999 Bethnal Green, London, England USA 12 7 Europe [9]
2000 Bethnal Green, London, England USA 12 9 Europe [10]
2001 Bethnal Green, London, England USA 12 1 Europe [11]
2002 Bethnal Green, London, England Europe 12 9 USA [12]
2003 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA USA 11 9 Europe [13]
2004 Egmond aan Zee, Netherlands USA 12 9 Europe [14]
2005 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA USA 11 6 Europe [15]
2006 Rotterdam, Netherlands Tied 12 12 Tied [16]
2007 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA Europe 11 8 USA [17]
2008 St. Julian's, Malta Europe 11 5 USA [18]
2009 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA USA 11 7 Europe [19]
2010 Bethnal Green, London, England Europe 11 8 USA [20]
2011 Las Vegas, Nevada, USA Europe 11 7 USA [21]
 
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