WNT and WPA. Frazer says…
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This deal reminds me of the Formula1 war in the early 80's. on one side was the FIA(WPA in race terms) vs. FOCA(the WNT players in driving suits). FOCA(FormulaOneConstructorsAssoc.) had all the teams and drivers and the FIA were a bunch of Paris-based stuffed shirt jackoff rulesmakers. Sound familiar????? winner?? Bernie Eclestone and his FOCA squad. F1 has never looked back since. The similarities are kinda unreal.
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A wise person would let this go, but no one ever accused me of being a wise man.
I am a gnat compared to you in terms of pool knowledge and inside information. Your rep is well earned and well deserved. I have the highest respect for you.
Labor or business-to business disputes are another matter. I have been involved in dozens of labor disputes, both individually as a family member or employee and professionally as a reporter, over many decades. I'll cede to no one on what I have learned over the years.
And here's what I have learned. Everyone feels pressure, and their behavior is impacted, when a dispute starts to cost them.
There is zero doubt in my mind - zero - that both the partial boycott and WNT-WPA split have impacted Matchroom and the WPA. And I think it is pushing them toward a compromise. Is it the main reason? Almost certainly not, but it matters.
There is a reason, for instance, that Predator went out of its way to publicize that its even in Puerto Rico was unsanctioned by the WPA. That was the only way Predator could get Gorst, Biado and Filler to play in the same tourney.
Do you think Predator is happy with SVB, Gorst and others not attending its events? Of course not, and I am sure they are throwing their weight around. The WPA also wants those players at its events.
What about MR? I have listened to every single interview Frazer has given in print or video in the last year. Only for the first time, on Doggin It this week, did I hear any semblance of vulnerability from her when talking about the dispute with the WPA. How do I know? I have heard that inflection many a time from business and labor leaders over the years. I can sense it.
WNT is undoubtedly feeling the pressure. That's why they are suing and talking with the WPA. It hurts them not to have people like Filler at its events. And they may lose more players. I would not be surprised if their scheduling problems stem in small part from not being able to guarantee any partner about who will attend.
Naturally both sides will claim, publicly to someone like me, or privately to someone like you, that they are not affected.
It's baloney. In every dispute I have participated in or covered, I hear a variation of that time and again.
Whatever our differing views on the matter, we should both actually hope the player split IS driving the WNT and WPA toward a compromise.
This has gone on long enough.
No chance. It was a comical ploy by a group that had little to no influence in the outcome. That the WPA ban was imminent was well-known to insiders. I think it certain that WPA knew within a day of its announcement that this boycott was a political action organized by Matchroom in which only some of, if any, of the players believed.
When WPA banned "the 245" their list included all those who played Hanoi. If they felt that those who had already suggested they would boycott all WPA events were committed to going through with the boycott, they could have left them off their list. They weren't fooled. I doubt even one of the boycotters will persist with their threat when the ban is lifted, even though they will be right back to where they were before the boycott.
This will ultimately prove to be a WPA bluff, as they will not likely be willing to proceed without the 245 on the banned list.
Great post!
Worst was before my time, but from everything I've heard and read, he was Luther Lassiter's equal at pool. Worst was also World Three-cushion Champion, so as an all-around cueist, he may have been the best ever. Lassiter, whose legendary accomplishments at Johnston City are well-documented, is without question, in the conversation for best ever American player, so Worst must also be counted as a legendary superstar.
An American baseball example would be Sandy Koufax. In his last four seasons played, he had an almost unfathomable record of 97-27 and was the best in the business. He had to retire, however, due to arthritis in his pitching elbow, but no discussion of all-time great baseball pitchers is complete without considering the great Koufax.
Longevity is nice, but it is not a prerequisite for inclusion in GOAT discussions.
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Nice post that frames the matter nicely. We, the pool fans, all want the same two things: a) maximum opportunity for the pro players, and b) the best possible fields at pool's majors.
Both WNT and WPA feel the heat, which was true six months ago and is probably exactly as true today. Both have "hot button" issues and each has already engaged in extreme actions (banning of the 245 and the removal of Filler from the Reyes and Mosconi Cups).
As you suggest, a compromise is coming at some point, as it has been for quite some time. I have always believed that the presence of two bidders for the services of the pro players will ultimately mean they make more money, and I still believe it.
Filler and Gorst are in the eye of the storm, as the best players of the 2020's to this point, each having prize money earned of over $1,000,000 so far. Offering the best rivalry we have seen in a very long time, both WNT and WPA surely understand that unless their pro pool product offers both of these two future BCA-hall-of-famers, theirs will be a less credible offering.
When the smoke clears, our views will not matter in the least. We just want the best possible pro pool offering, and hope that both WNT and WPA will find a way to give it to us.
Thanks for your insights.
Coincidence that 'Gorst' and 'Worst' are only one letter different??? Maybe, maybe not.
I do wonder what the solution will be. WPA lets Matchroom sanction for free? WPA requires Matchroom to only sanction in Asia and work with/through the ACBS who promises to be a helpful partner? Or just a full return to pre “we aren’t sanctioning anymore” status? WPA accepts the WNT Rankings? That seems moot since MR has near unlimited control over the World 9-ball Championship regardless of rankings. Matchroom can use their own country of representation rules? Or Fedor must be Russian/Unaffiliated? Matchroom must honor the next time WPA bans players for international politics? Matchroom must let WPA shove POLADA down their throats again and ban pot smokers that test positive? Matchroom gets to keep the PRA and dual-sanction?
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one factor is missing from both of your assessments of WPA though. the cash cow, i.e. heyball. predator is nothing in comparison, and WPA was never threatened financially because they have that cash cow. how much they value big names in american pool vs collecting money is of course another question. personally i think it's mainly the latter.
Ture, and equally significant is that WPA is still the pillar upon which women's professional pool, which has been growing impressively, is built.
I am not sufficiently informed on the matter of Heyball to factor it into my comments.
Or posts to old threads
Or posts a new thread on an old topic
Or asks a question that has been answered somewhere before
Or ...........
I think it's a bad sign (for us railbirds and the players too) that a compromise hasn't been reached yet. As noted by jbart above, this is a headache for everyone involved so there typically would be pressure to reach a middle-ground solution. What demand is the WPA making that Matchroom could not accept and still succeed with "Nineball" and wnt.tv? And vice versa, what is matchroom demanding that the WPA can't accept because it would upset the ACBS and the Chinese government (which funds heyball)?
I think it's a lot worse for the players than the fans. As fans, we know what the big events near term in rotation pool are, such as February's Las Vegas Open, March's PLP in Sarajevo, April's Super Billiards Expo near Philadelphia and May's UK Open in England. As fans, we wonder which players we will see if we attend these events, but as long as the situation is resolved before the first Matchroom major in May, I think we'll manage. We, the fans, are most concerned with schedules and field quality. We want to see the most elite possible fields at the majors, but will we get that?
For a player, however, the uncertainty is brutal. Should one be chasing WNT ranking points or not? How should a WPA-banned player proceed? How should players not among the "banned 245" proceed? Is the ban ending soon? How does a pro player put a tournament itinerary together for 2025? I ache for the pro players, who cannot easily plot their respective courses.
I feel that, for the most part, if this is resolved by April, things will be in decent shape.
The Predator events in Las Vegas at the end of the month are interesting. Three WPA sanctioned events - men and women's 10 ball and mixed doubles. And five unsanctioned events, all invitationals, including banks and one pocket.
SVB is playing in the unsanctioned bank and one-pocket events. Woodward and Billie are in the bank event. I don't see Gorst listed on any of the events.
No list yet for the players in the sanctioned events. The promo shows Filler, Kazakis Patsura and Lin.
. Got to wonder if a Sky or Billie would go there for just one event.
In any case, Predator really seems to be stepping up its game. More events and prize money. They even seem to be creating their own year end events to try to mimic, to some extent, the idea of Mosconi. That is, players who do well during the year get rewarded at the end.
For example, Predator had a champion of champions tourney in December pitting the winner of the World 8 (WPA), 9 (WNT) and 10-ball tournaments against each other. Filler, Gorst and Biado were the trio.
Seems Predator is responding to the MR competition. Would be interesting to see if Predator eventually creates a tour of its own in either 8-ball or 10-ball.
SVB is playing in the unsanctioned bank and one-pocket events. Woodward and Billie are in the bank event. I don't see Gorst listed on any of the events.
No list yet for the players in the sanctioned events. The promo shows Filler, Kazakis Patsura and Lin.
. Got to wonder if a Sky or Billie would go there for just one event.
In any case, Predator really seems to be stepping up its game. More events and prize money. They even seem to be creating their own year end events to try to mimic, to some extent, the idea of Mosconi. That is, players who do well during the year get rewarded at the end.
For example, Predator had a champion of champions tourney in December pitting the winner of the World 8 (WPA), 9 (WNT) and 10-ball tournaments against each other. Filler, Gorst and Biado were the trio.
Seems Predator is responding to the MR competition. Would be interesting to see if Predator eventually creates a tour of its own in either 8-ball or 10-ball.