Wondering where the worst refs in the world are? May I present the BCA...
- Thread starter gromulan
- Start date
I get it man. I guess I didn't explain myself right. There should NOT have been a foul called. Only if the player asks the ref to make a call should the ref become involved. I completely agree.
I was just trying to express how much I hate it when a player can't sit down when it is not his or her turn at the table. If there are no seats available, I have no problem when a player stands in a certain spot while it is my turn. Have you ever played with a guy who constantly changes where he stands while you are moving around the table? Always checking out your angles? People sometimes seem to lose all of their manners/etiquette for their opponents while they are at the table.
I am a little bias though, I am the easiest person to shark on the planet. That is why I don't let myself take tournaments too seriously
.
My guess is Murph is closer to the correct answer than you. His error is there is only a fifteen dollar per event registration fee for singles and doubles events. His guess at the per game table income is also somewhat high. Other than that, he is close to the correct answer. Mark Griffin and the BCAPL can (and do) charge whatever they feel the market will bear. This is a for profit business, not a not for profit or non-profit! If you feel Murph has erred, please let us know where.
My single biggest complaint was the door police. I find this just unbelievable with the amount of money being spent by the players inside the Riviera. If they don't like players bringing in outside food or drink, close the ABC stores during the tournament (ya shooore). If that is too extreme, lower the prices for water and beer inside the playing area. What a novel idea! Lets see. Four open entry doors. Two shifts per day. 8 guards times 15 hours times minimum wage times 9 days is ........ No wonder the prices inside are so high!
I really enjoy playing the BCAPL Nationals. I can also tell you if I was barred from playing a match because I tried to bring in outside food or drink into the playing area, I would NEVER come back! VNEA, TAP, APA, USPPA, UPA is there a place for me?
Lyn
Thank you for saying that and clearing it up.
What makes people think he isn't handling the ref issue? How do you know he's not doing anything?? Are you in his office listening to his phone calls? I jest.... but I don't like assumptions.
Give it some time and see what he says and/or if things are handled. Don't assume that he is "choosing" not to do anything...
I have never seen anyone attempt to stop people from entering the ballroom with food or drink from vendors outside such as the ABC store or the food vendors in the food court or other sections of the casino. Seriously in well over 10 years of going to the BCAPL in Vegas, the VNEA championships as well, I have not only never had it happen to me despite taking pretty much everything into the ballroom including full bottles of spirits but I have never seen it happen to anyone.
The Riv kind of screws themselves over abit on their prices at times. Last year I found the food to be fairly reasonably priced, but the price of a beer was so drastically more expensive then ABC I always walked there to get a drink of any sort. Charge $0.50 or $1 more for a beer or mixed drink at the vendors then the ABC and they would be swamped because at that price point it is not worth the hassle to walk to ABC to get the drink. Charing 2-3 TIMES as much as the ABC for the same product? I am sorry but you are simply begging people to go buy their booze at the ABC store or elsewhere.
Some people will be lazy or not know any better and pay a 300% markup on a beer, so be it if the Riv thinks they are doing their best by scalping those people instead of selling more quantity all the power to them. But you cannot force people to get fleeced on markups like that.
BTW, I took my diet pepsi bottle into the tournament area for our 1030am match, took it back out of the arena after we won, and then it was confiscated by the security guard when I tried to re-enter it into the building.
Sounds like some people went to have a good time, and did not. Next year speak with what is in your wallet, and stay home!
I get it man. I guess I didn't explain myself right. There should NOT have been a foul called. Only if the player asks the ref to make a call should the ref become involved. I completely agree.
I was just trying to express how much I hate it when a player can't sit down when it is not his or her turn at the table. If there are no seats available, I have no problem when a player stands in a certain spot while it is my turn. Have you ever played with a guy who constantly changes where he stands while you are moving around the table? Always checking out your angles? People sometimes seem to lose all of their manners/etiquette for their opponents while they are at the table.
I am a little bias though, I am the easiest person to shark on the planet. That is why I don't let myself take tournaments too seriously
It's Kewl...I agree whole heartily on both accounts!
First off. This thread was about Refs and not about Mark G's pocket. About that.... The BCAPL adds money to every state and regional event. They have a staff that likes to be paid. An office they have to pay rent for, rule books to print etc.. So to base your projections on the Nationals alone, you are way out of line. Again, I do not know the bottom line of the BCAPL but I am sure you have no clue either.
As far as the Riv policing the door for food and drink. I would wait to see what they do next week at the VNEA nationals and in August for the APA nationals before passing judgement on the BCAPL for this.
I do not mean for this to be an attack on anyone but I think you should consider all of the facts before making an accusation of gouging the pool players. As a matter of fact I am going to say thank you to Mark Griffin for all he does for pool and be thankful that we have a guy like him in our corner.
As far as the Riv policing the door for food and drink. I would wait to see what they do next week at the VNEA nationals and in August for the APA nationals before passing judgement on the BCAPL for this.
I do not mean for this to be an attack on anyone but I think you should consider all of the facts before making an accusation of gouging the pool players. As a matter of fact I am going to say thank you to Mark Griffin for all he does for pool and be thankful that we have a guy like him in our corner.
Last year the WCVNEA couldn't get enuff refs. There were refs from their own city that didn't want to volunteer.
I was asked to come up from 500 miles away.
When I relalized what the pay scale was and that it might even cost me upwards of $1200 in lost wages, plus traveling expenses, food etc, I had to decline the offer. The wage and bonus offered didn't even come close to breaking even for myself.
So yeah, I think wages might play a part in who volunteers to show up at the larger tournaments. Maybe people can't book time off or don't want to use their holiday time. But I don't necessarily believe that the quality of refereeing suffers because of those that do volunteer for the BCAPL or VNEA
in Vegas. I know several and have met others that I have a great deal of respect for their knowledge and ability.
I was asked to come up from 500 miles away.
When I relalized what the pay scale was and that it might even cost me upwards of $1200 in lost wages, plus traveling expenses, food etc, I had to decline the offer. The wage and bonus offered didn't even come close to breaking even for myself.
So yeah, I think wages might play a part in who volunteers to show up at the larger tournaments. Maybe people can't book time off or don't want to use their holiday time. But I don't necessarily believe that the quality of refereeing suffers because of those that do volunteer for the BCAPL or VNEA
in Vegas. I know several and have met others that I have a great deal of respect for their knowledge and ability.
Last edited:
Your so right, but one bad apple/call....well you know the rest, especially if you've planned for a year, saved for a year, practiced/played for a year and you get in a situation with em rolling the other way....it just sucks.
Chris,
Spoke with several of the people working the door. All were hired by the BCAPL to do the job. It's not the Riviera. Wouldn't be surprised if VNEA, ACS and APA wind up doing the same thing. As an aside, I heard last years refrain of "free beer for a dollar" again during Tuesday's welcoming party. The bartenders were every bit as demanding as last year. To me it's a sorry state of affairs.
Lyn
I know what you mean Dave, 100%.
I believe in those cases, its an ego thing, power trip or whatever you call it.
I was taught that if a call is too close to trust your judgment 100%, it ok to
say sorry, it was too close and I can't call it.
As for reversing a bad call, I would have no problem calling over another ref
and explaining that I made an error and that I was going to reverse my decision. And then apologize to the players for my mistake. I believe you'll get a lot more respect for that than power tripping. Every one can make a mistake under preasure, right.
Luckily, I've never had to do either so far.
I believe in those cases, its an ego thing, power trip or whatever you call it.
I was taught that if a call is too close to trust your judgment 100%, it ok to
say sorry, it was too close and I can't call it.
As for reversing a bad call, I would have no problem calling over another ref
and explaining that I made an error and that I was going to reverse my decision. And then apologize to the players for my mistake. I believe you'll get a lot more respect for that than power tripping. Every one can make a mistake under preasure, right.
Luckily, I've never had to do either so far.
Last edited:
The Ref issue
In the Pros. I mean NFL, MLB, and NBA. (sorry I am not hockey fan so I can not say either way) They use instant replay. Do you know why. I will tell you. Because even professional refs blow calls. It happens. So why does anyone think it can not and should not happen in pool. Even if we had professional refs they are still human. Humans make mistakes. I am sorry but it is reality. Professional accountants make mistakes. Professional attorneys make them. Pro athletes make them. Everyone makes them. So why do we want to condem pool referees when they make them?
In the Pros. I mean NFL, MLB, and NBA. (sorry I am not hockey fan so I can not say either way) They use instant replay. Do you know why. I will tell you. Because even professional refs blow calls. It happens. So why does anyone think it can not and should not happen in pool. Even if we had professional refs they are still human. Humans make mistakes. I am sorry but it is reality. Professional accountants make mistakes. Professional attorneys make them. Pro athletes make them. Everyone makes them. So why do we want to condem pool referees when they make them?