Work on GC1 sub-rails
- Thread starter realkingcobra
- Start date
OK, let me break down a GC1 for ya buddy. First of all, Monarch cushions and Super Speed cushions are not a straight across trade. Monarch cushions measure in a 1 1/16th's across the top of the cushion, added to 7/8th's of sub-rail plus cloth = 2" from nose of cushion to Formica top rail finish.
Super Speed cushions are 1 3/16th's across the top from nose to back, so they're 1/8" wider per cushion than Monarch cushions, so just a direct switch over of cushions would result in shrinking the playing surface by a full 1/4" you'd also end up with an over hang of cushion beyond the base of the bevel the cushion mounted to.
When Brunswick came out with the GC2's, and switched the cushions to Super Speed, they also made the changes in the sub-rail liners.
Bottom line here is, no matter which GC1 it is, until the sub-rail is corrected, or until you can buy Monarch cushions again, no cushions are ever going to fit right up to the factory sub-rail correctly unless the sub-rails have been modified to fit the newer style of cushion today.
Believe it or not, there is less damage to a GC1 sub-rail making the K66 cushions fit and belt sanding the step difference between cushion and liner, than there is on all GC2's and newer. The were designed to use the Super Speed cushions which compared to the K66 cushions, were very different. There's only a little difference between Monarch and K66
Glen
Thanks for the explanation Glen! Wish I had 1/10th the volume as you and could afford that tool shed you must have man!
Rick - guess I missed it! Been absent for a few weeks and with all the snow & ice we had over the weekend in NC, my kids are out of school today so, I've had a chance to do SOME catch up reading. My son has a bunch of friends over and I'm the peace keeper
Robin
Rick - guess I missed it! Been absent for a few weeks and with all the snow & ice we had over the weekend in NC, my kids are out of school today so, I've had a chance to do SOME catch up reading. My son has a bunch of friends over and I'm the peace keeper
Robin
Super Speed cushions are 1 3/16th's across the top from nose to back, so they're 1/8" wider per cushion than Monarch cushions, so just a direct switch over of cushions would result in shrinking the playing surface by a full 1/4" you'd also end up with an over hang of cushion beyond the base of the bevel the cushion mounted to.
Wow. That's some priceless info.
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Rail
Ron
How much did you extend the subrail? 1'' in total? Cut the new piece that you built 1'' longer than the original rail. Then install the subrail. Then tie in the subrail, the old rail and the new 1" piece all together.So a 1/2 would come over the top of the subrail on each end. I am just thinking outside of the box! LOL.What, kind of like this?:smash: or this?:bash: cuz ya lost me there buddy
Glen
Ron
I cut down the top of the liner to make it flat, then added new wood to build it back up to the correct thickness of 1 11/16th's, then cut the width of the sub-rail back from 7/8th's thick to 3/4" while at the same time corrected the down angle bevel in which I ended up with the correct width of 2" wide from formica to nose of cushion when using Artemis Intercontinental cushions which are 1 3/16th's wide, plus the thickness of Simonis 860HR.
Glen
I finished putting this GC1 together last night, and I'll tell you what, it plays so good it's just sick:grin: I mean I've rebuilt tables before to absolute perfection before, and lots of them as most of you are well aware of, but never, and I mean never have I ever been able to correct so many mistakes in the sub-rail liners before as I did with this table....so easy.
I'm thinking about just keeping this new tooling all to myself it's so fun to work with:rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
Glen, the "Realkingcobra"
I'm thinking about just keeping this new tooling all to myself it's so fun to work with:rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
Glen, the "Realkingcobra"
After finishing up and taking tons of pics, got home around 4am and could not sleep! Wanted to go back and play so bad it was irritating!
I promised a post with the results and my post operative opinion. With the unofficial result in besides of a hellacious BOO-YAH, rest assured I have already arranged the surgery of the other 10 Gold Crowns.
I have taken many pics of the work and given time (sometime after I get sick of hitting balls on this table) I will illustrate the pics so you can see some of the subtle joys and some of the not so subtle joys that leave your mouth hanging open and pointing as you gasp for oxygen. It will be kinda like the kid in me pointing and saying, "Did you see what just happened?!?!?!?"
Clark Smith
Malarkeys Pool and Brew
Tacompton, WA
I promised a post with the results and my post operative opinion. With the unofficial result in besides of a hellacious BOO-YAH, rest assured I have already arranged the surgery of the other 10 Gold Crowns.
I have taken many pics of the work and given time (sometime after I get sick of hitting balls on this table) I will illustrate the pics so you can see some of the subtle joys and some of the not so subtle joys that leave your mouth hanging open and pointing as you gasp for oxygen. It will be kinda like the kid in me pointing and saying, "Did you see what just happened?!?!?!?"
Clark Smith
Malarkeys Pool and Brew
Tacompton, WA
Clark,
RKC, is having so much fun, I hope your charging him accodingly..:grin-square: Admission to Disney is up to $75.00 a day. I know when I called Glen, he was running the router, something about slate frames needing adjustment. Lot of power tools at work up there in Washington state, make sure you get reimbursed for the electricity he using.
Jay
Do These GCI Rails Need to be Rebuilt
I have a GCI that was 'redone' about a year ago. Here is a photo of one of the rails.
By the picture, can you tell if these have these been modified. The have SuperSpeed on them now. And after reading Glen's post above, I want to be sure.
Actually, I think I may have answered my own question with Glen's insight. I think these subrails have been modified and need to be rebuilt.
I measured from cushion nose-tip to rail formica and it measured 2.125". This would confirm Glen's earlier post. The total playing surface of this GCI 8 Pro measures 45.875" x 91.875". Should be 46 x 92, I believe.
And the table DOES play slow, too. Any I'm in NC, so it is probably not a left-coast thing at all...
I have a GCI that was 'redone' about a year ago. Here is a photo of one of the rails.
By the picture, can you tell if these have these been modified. The have SuperSpeed on them now. And after reading Glen's post above, I want to be sure.
Actually, I think I may have answered my own question with Glen's insight. I think these subrails have been modified and need to be rebuilt.
I measured from cushion nose-tip to rail formica and it measured 2.125". This would confirm Glen's earlier post. The total playing surface of this GCI 8 Pro measures 45.875" x 91.875". Should be 46 x 92, I believe.
And the table DOES play slow, too. Any I'm in NC, so it is probably not a left-coast thing at all...
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No, actually they haven't been modified, as the Super Speed cushions are wider than Monarch cushions, thus the smaller playing surface and greater distance between the nose of the cushions and the formica finish. Before the newer cushions were installed, the sub-rails should have been cut back to allow for the wider cushions, so the playing surface would have still been 46" x 92":wink:
Glen
PS. Just to double check, the formica to formica from side to side should be playing surface, plus two cushions at 2" each, equals 50" x 96"
What's the cushion nose height measurement?
Yes, I remember you Peter, you're still on my list of things to do back east:grin: Yes, if the sub-rail bevel is not matched to the cushions installed, it can cause a change in play. As most know, nose height is of major importance, but just as important is the position of the cushion behind that nose height, which has a lot to do with sub-rail thickness. I've never gone into detail about the relationship of the sub-rails to the cushions, to the nose height for a few reasons, but maybe someday I'll explain it in more detail:grin:
Glen