Would you have paid for a live stream for the Straight Pool World Championships?
- Thread starter Blackjack
- Start date
It would be nice
I would like some live coverage of this special event. I have
to work for a living. So this would be a good idea for people who
can't attend in person but would like to. WTF !
I would like some live coverage of this special event. I have
to work for a living. So this would be a good idea for people who
can't attend in person but would like to. WTF !
Justin -
I figure that there are enough people that would have paid $9.99 a day to watch this tournament. I'll just toss out some numbers -
Let's say that worldwide, you have 150 hardcore 14.1 fans that buy the stream every day...
150 X 9.99 X 7 = $10,489.5
Now, if he wanted to make a special price for the entire event - he will attract more people - let's say $39.99 for access to the entire event - and they attract 300 people - They would make $11,997 -
I admit that I don't know how much all of this costs to put on the show - but I am pretty sure if this was discussed amongst the people that could make it happen, then we could get somewhere with it.
The fans just want to see the matches. They want to see the best players in action. During the Euro Championships it was awesome - watching Ivica shoot in that last ball - the excitement was off the scale and I am so grateful that I was able to see it - live - with great coverage. Check out the number of views the Euro championship threads received and the hits the web site received during that week.
The videos from DCC have been very popular - and I hope we can do the same with the DCC SP Challenge next year. I just think that its sad that there will be no coverage. I was hoping to see one of my friends win a World Championship - and now it looks like we're going to get pictures of guys with their medals instead of having video of the final match.
Note: (I prognosticate that it will be Immonen and Feijen in the finale).
I figure that there are enough people that would have paid $9.99 a day to watch this tournament. I'll just toss out some numbers -
Let's say that worldwide, you have 150 hardcore 14.1 fans that buy the stream every day...
150 X 9.99 X 7 = $10,489.5
Now, if he wanted to make a special price for the entire event - he will attract more people - let's say $39.99 for access to the entire event - and they attract 300 people - They would make $11,997 -
I admit that I don't know how much all of this costs to put on the show - but I am pretty sure if this was discussed amongst the people that could make it happen, then we could get somewhere with it.
The fans just want to see the matches. They want to see the best players in action. During the Euro Championships it was awesome - watching Ivica shoot in that last ball - the excitement was off the scale and I am so grateful that I was able to see it - live - with great coverage. Check out the number of views the Euro championship threads received and the hits the web site received during that week.
The videos from DCC have been very popular - and I hope we can do the same with the DCC SP Challenge next year. I just think that its sad that there will be no coverage. I was hoping to see one of my friends win a World Championship - and now it looks like we're going to get pictures of guys with their medals instead of having video of the final match.
Note: (I prognosticate that it will be Immonen and Feijen in the finale).
Hey John,have we met perhaps at the old pool room in Port Jervis that was owned by Dennis Bolella?PALMERJOHN said:
You would think that was the case.Blackjack said:
In my experience it is not.
What shocks me is that Predator does not pony up for coverage. I will never understand why you give money to an event then don't pay a few more thousand for people to at least watch one table. It makes no sense at all. But then who knows how these events are really funded and financed.
I can tell you that internet access at a hotel like the one they are at for 7 days for a dedicated line is usually in the $1000's if it is even available.
<----hates hotels, casinos and convention centers
JCIN said:I can say that we have never come close to that on any of our events. Be it Derby, Reno, Hopkins event or any of our challenge matches. We have streamed two days of PPV featuring two of the best 14.1 players in the world (Schmidt and Harriman) and the response was very underwhelming.
If you figure in the cost of internet access at a level required for a quality stream (We have paid between $500 and $2000 depending on the venue, hotels and convention centers are the WORST) the cost of PPV bandwith which is not cheap, travel and hotel it adds up very fast. This is all taking for granted that you have the gear to do the stream in the first place. If you do it on a partner basis with Charlie the pie is just too small for either party to make money.
The best thing for something like this is for Charlie to find a sponsor for the coverage and then pay for a volunteers expenses to stream it free. That would be the only way I could see to get an event like this some level of streaming coverage. The problem is, as he learned with the World 10 Ball I am sure, is that if the coverage is problematic no matter what the reason it can piss as many people off as it brings in.
The setup Charlie had at the World 10 Ball was first class all the way, big money, and the hotel gremlins still drilled them just like they did us the first night. Streaming is not too tough when everything is perfect but it rarely is in a hotel. As soon as legitimate affordable mobile broadband is a reality it will change things significantly. Until then the cost and tech issues are major hurdles.
We have a standing offer to cover events for expenses as long as our schedule permits but as soon as people hear what it really costs the conversation ends.
Basically, everyone wants coverage but no one can afford it. Even if it is only one guys expenses for a 4 day event it is $1000 (Flight $400 Hotel 4x$150 at this venue) before any internet access fees. It's tough.
The way I figure it it takes at minimum a crew of 5 people to cover a tournament right:
One to run the stream.
One for getting all of info and putting it in a format for distribution.
One for running the website with brackets and updates and myriad other things
Two for commentary.
This is for static camera coverage of up to 4 tables, live updates of brackets, live player interviews, press releases and media liason. It would be the nuts but.......
Now you have 5 people working 10-12 hours a day. The result would be outstanding and people would go nuts for it but the question is........who is going to pay for it? Volunteers are great but 40-50 hours is a lot to ask of anyone. One of these day we are going to cover a big tournament the right way just to see what the response is.
The crew Charlie had at the World 10 Ball had a good start on it but even with 6 or 7 guys and $100K+ in gear it is hard. As a side note I heard a rumor about the bill the hotel gave to the streaming company for all of crap they charged them for. It almost made my heart stop.
Thus ends my rambling thoughts on the black art of pool streaming.
Justin makes good points. I've spent my life in internet streaming in one way or another...since 1999. The moment you ask for money (any amount) your audience drops considerably. Whether it be $5 or $20, it's not the amount.... it's the fact you're asking someone to pull out a credit card. The moment someone grabs for their wallet, sweat forms and doubt kicks in and 80% (VERY conservative) ultimately go...."Nahhhhhh."
I think a sponsorship move is the move, if you know what I mean. Cut to "commercials" in between matches and breaks. Get a company to fund the core cost and offer it to free for the viewers.
You guys should see TAR's setup and their equipment. It's top notch stuff. It costs them a knot just to GET there with all of that stuff... let alone what the venue juices out of them. If only a handful of people pay $10, it's a hard kick in the teeth. Tough business.
Whenever I did events, I charged about $20k per event. You have to, just to get the dedicated line, pay the staff, etc. Know any tournament directors paying that to do it "right?"
NYC cue dude
Banned
JCIN said:
I do. And it's reason why I don't any longer.
Randy
(don't ask, I'm not answering)
Blackjack said:
you figured wrong
NYC cue dude said:
Randy-
Regardless of the past....guys like me are THAAAANKFUL you stepped up in past to make shit happen. Memories of a lifetime.
I wish there were a lot more guys like you out there.
Dave
That is the idea.just about a said:
The thing is that if a match does not draw well on the initial PPV the chances of it selling well are not very good either. We are able to keep growing and investing in our company because we do lots of events, have multiple income streams, and most important of all have a very loyal core group of supporters that keeps getting bigger. In VF someone coined it TAR Nation.
They are the best part of what we do.I don't mean to sound discouraging about the streaming. I believe it is the future 100% and that it will make a major impact on pro pool in this country. It is just that when I hear "Why didn't they stream it? They would of made money." like its a no brainer I just do not agree. I have to believe whoever paid for the World 10 Ball streaming took it right dead between the eyes on that deal so it may explain Charlie's reluctance to fool with it again.
The way of the future (and I am confident it will happen) is sponsor supported streaming of events. The thing is proving to the sponsors that people watching the stream will actually make a difference on their bottom line.
Tap,tap,tap!!!I have been saying this for awhile now about the sponsors and they will come around,the numbers are there and they will continue to grow and instead of pursuing sponsors they will be the ones knocking.I know my quality isn't where you guys are at but for less then 4 months I am doing ok and will continue to step it up.My business model if you would like to call it has been free pool payed for by the sponsors,sponsors are starting to wake up and get on board which is good because its good exposure and cheap compared to advertising say in magazines or billiard papers.I just dont have the money myself to improve it or otherwise it would be done,but with sponsorship I will get it to a higher quality level.I would like to see more people doing what we are doing in their part of the country,it would be like having ABC,FOX,and CBS of the pool world live and streaming pool everyday because there is action everyday someplace.We have yet to tap into the league players which even though I am not much for leagues,they are die hard pool lovers too and could amount to big numbers and big numbers attract sponsors. :smile:JCIN said:That is the idea.
The way of the future (and I am confident it will happen) is sponsor supported streaming of events. The thing is proving to the sponsors that people watching the stream will actually make a difference on their bottom line.
Trust me Justin, the reason you have a loyal core of supporters is because you offer a quality product with extremely high levels of customer service. I agree with you that live streaming has a larger role than most realize in the future of professional billiards. Hopefully more potential customers will give this new arena a chance and see the positives that it offers. In terms of major sponsorship in the foreseeable future, I have no doubt it will eventually come. With the effort and passion that you and Chad show in each production TAR puts on, its an infectious belief that anyone who truly loves billiards and is in the industry will easily see. Lets just hope that it comes sooner rather than later.JCIN said:That is the idea.
The thing is that if a match does not draw well on the initial PPV the chances of it selling well are not very good either. We are able to keep growing and investing in our company because we do lots of events, have multiple income streams, and most important of all have a very loyal core group of supporters that keeps getting bigger. In VF someone coined it TAR Nation.
I would not only watch this event via live stream but would look for future DVD releases. There is a mini comeback with the straight pool and I think it's awesome. I have seen a player I won't mention go from a pretty strong short stop to world beater from practicing and playing S. Pool. It's a great game.
JCIN said:That is the idea.
The thing is that if a match does not draw well on the initial PPV the chances of it selling well are not very good either. We are able to keep growing and investing in our company because we do lots of events, have multiple income streams, and most important of all have a very loyal core group of supporters that keeps getting bigger. In VF someone coined it TAR Nation.
I don't mean to sound discouraging about the streaming. I believe it is the future 100% and that it will make a major impact on pro pool in this country. It is just that when I hear "Why didn't they stream it? They would of made money." like its a no brainer I just do not agree. I have to believe whoever paid for the World 10 Ball streaming took it right dead between the eyes on that deal so it may explain Charlie's reluctance to fool with it again.
The way of the future (and I am confident it will happen) is sponsor supported streaming of events. The thing is proving to the sponsors that people watching the stream will actually make a difference on their bottom line.
I agree with you 100%.
In 2006, CW lost money on the DVD deal. I won't go into the particulars, but I talked to Randy and Charlie about that project and it definitely changed their minds about doing it again.
In 2007, Jorge Torres from propoolvideo recorded the matches. I am not sure what happened to that project because I haven't talked to Jorge about it in a while. Perhaps if he's out there he could elaborate on that. From the matches that were completed, IMO Jorge did an awesome job - so did John DiToro and Grady Mathews.
The World 10 ball - I heard about the numbers too - outrageous.
What kind of sponsorship money are we talking about? Is there a ball park figure?
Also - Randy... your contributions to the game of 14.1 is highly underestimated.... especially by you...as well as many others. Everything else aside, thank you for all that you did for the game of 14.1. The game has grown in popularity because of your efforts and dedication.
Lenny,Fast Lenny said:
I have made this same point time and time again. League players are the key target groups for companies such as TAR and Ontherail. Whats exciting is that about 98% of league players have no idea companies such as yours and Justin and Chad's exist. This offers an incredible opportunity for expansion. I truly feel that marketing campaigns focused towards league players would do nothing but increase the customer base and help revenue and give you more leverage in discussions with potential sponsors.
I agree and in every state and city there are thousands and that means if we can get the word spread and work with the leagues and have them put fliers in the team pamphlets they would know about us and check us out,once they got a taste they would be back for more. :thumbup:beav99_4life said:
Blackjack said:
I understand the popularity of 14.1 in recent times, and I think it is great. Anything that promotes pool is a good thing.
I am just reminded of all the dissenters who still to this day will not purchase anything related to the IPT and/or Kevin Trudeau. There may be some folks who harbor these type of feelings towards Dragon Promotion and/or Charlie Williams, even though, as we all know, this recent tournament is very well received and enjoyed by many.
I do wonder if the LIVE broadband streaming, or whatever they call it, would be as popular if it came without LIVE CHAT. Is it cheaper without LIVE CHAT? Does LIVE CHAT complement the LIVE broadband streaming?
As the technology advances, so too will this broadband streaming. In my own work, I encounter problems with digital recordings from time to time. It is amazing to me how some recordings can be EXCELLENT audio quality, and others sound like they're on the Space Shuttle in outer space.
The long-distance telephone monopoly came to an end when AT&T split up. BTW, I had stock with the old AT&T and made a bundle!
Soon the technology for broadband live streaming will become better quality and more available. Then too, just like AT&T, the cost will come down. Until then, people like TAR are the pioneers of LIVE pool broadcasting, and I kind of have a feeling they will be on the front lines for a long time to come. People like TAR do it from the heart, though they have to make a living too.
Dragon Promotions? I'm not so sure they're doing it from the heart, but I don't wish them any ill will if they're doing something good for pool in general. JMHO, FWIW!
JAM