It's pool, no one cares
WPA Rules For Transgenders
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
JC
Coos Cues
The question wasn't whether someone would choose to be transgendered. Trying to change the question to fit your answer won't help the discussion.
JC
Genuine curiosity here.... I spent the last 3 week undergoing the process of freezing my eggs (when my peers were breeding I was working on my game).... that said- the process requires daily hormones injections and ultimately a very high estrogen level---
I haven't been playing, but this conversation made me wish I had, because if I'm following along correctly, I would've been weaker player on day 9 of the process then I was on day 1?
To take that a step further, my natural, non medicated estrogen levels are subject to rise and fall in the course of any day or month.... I don't know- I've never been the kind of girl that wanted to blame anything on my cycle, but this argument suggests the excuse is there to be had.... and estrogen will drop significantly when I enter menopause... So are we saying that menopausal women are better players than their younger more fertile counterparts?
Rhea, I know I've read some things here about you, but I don't recall, did you play before you started hormone treatments? If so, do you feel you are a weaker player at higher estrogen level?
I'm not saying I disbelieve, but the hormone part of this discussion hit close to home. Long gone are the days, but it lead to me to wonder if I had tracked my competitive pool life side by side with my menstrual cycle if there was a rhyme or reason to be found.
If this is true, good luck quantifying hormones -Fargo folks.
Genuine curiosity here.... I spent the last 3 week undergoing the process of freezing my eggs (when my peers were breeding I was working on my game).... that said- the process requires daily hormones injections and ultimately a very high estrogen level---
I haven't been playing, but this conversation made me wish I had, because if I'm following along correctly, I would've been weaker player on day 9 of the process then I was on day 1?
To take that a step further, my natural, non medicated estrogen levels are subject to rise and fall in the course of any day or month.... I don't know- I've never been the kind of girl that wanted to blame anything on my cycle, but this argument suggests the excuse is there to be had.... and estrogen will drop significantly when I enter menopause... So are we saying that menopausal women are better players than their younger more fertile counterparts?
Rhea, I know I've read some things here about you, but I don't recall, did you play before you started hormone treatments? If so, do you feel you are a weaker player at higher estrogen level?
I'm not saying I disbelieve, but the hormone part of this discussion hit close to home. Long gone are the days, but it lead to me to wonder if I had tracked my competitive pool life side by side with my menstrual cycle if there was a rhyme or reason to be found.
If this is true, good luck quantifying hormones -Fargo folks.
To answer your question in theory no, the changes in only 9 days are way to miniature to quantatively notice any real difference.
Also menopause is due to the natural aging and dying cellular division of your ovaries ability to produce the same amount of estrogen as it once did. With lower estrogen you will not become a stronger player, lack of hormones actually decrease your abilities over time, however you still have the experience you gained through knowledge. You're testosterone levels will not raise just because you go into menopause. Both estrogen and testosterone have different positive effects on your memory, learning, and spatial abilities. And both men and women have both just different levels of each under normal circumstances.
You could keep a youthful advantage by undergoing HRT once menopause begins to alleviate the symptoms as well as keep a youthful appearance and prolonged health. This has always been an option for women who are in menopause due to surgical or natural reasons.
Rhea's posts are very vague. Just keeps saying hormones have an effect. Doesn't say it they are positive or negative.
Read this article....
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/18/us/female-sex-hormone-is-tied-to-ability-to-perform-tasks.html
In two studies involving 200 women, they found that the women performed better on tasks involving verbal skill or muscular coordination when estrogen levels were high than they did when the levels were low. By contrast, the women were better on tasks involving spatial relationships when estrogen levels were low than when the levels were high.
Even at their best, the women as a group did not perform as well as men do, on average, with spatial tasks, the researchers said.
The scientists found, for example, that women were better at..... making precise hand movements when their estrogen levels were high. Their ability to solve spatial problems, such as mentally rotating objects drawn on paper, improved when estrogen levels were low. 'Very Significant' Findings
Over all, Dr. Kimura said, women seem to close about half the gap between average male and female spatial abilities in their low estrogen days
Read this article....
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/18/us/female-sex-hormone-is-tied-to-ability-to-perform-tasks.html
In two studies involving 200 women, they found that the women performed better on tasks involving verbal skill or muscular coordination when estrogen levels were high than they did when the levels were low. By contrast, the women were better on tasks involving spatial relationships when estrogen levels were low than when the levels were high.
Even at their best, the women as a group did not perform as well as men do, on average, with spatial tasks, the researchers said.
The scientists found, for example, that women were better at..... making precise hand movements when their estrogen levels were high. Their ability to solve spatial problems, such as mentally rotating objects drawn on paper, improved when estrogen levels were low. 'Very Significant' Findings
Over all, Dr. Kimura said, women seem to close about half the gap between average male and female spatial abilities in their low estrogen days
Genuine curiosity here.... I spent the last 3 week undergoing the process of freezing my eggs (when my peers were breeding I was working on my game).... that said- the process requires daily hormones injections and ultimately a very high estrogen level---
I haven't been playing, but this conversation made me wish I had, because if I'm following along correctly, I would've been weaker player on day 9 of the process then I was on day 1?
To take that a step further, my natural, non medicated estrogen levels are subject to rise and fall in the course of any day or month.... I don't know- I've never been the kind of girl that wanted to blame anything on my cycle, but this argument suggests the excuse is there to be had.... and estrogen will drop significantly when I enter menopause... So are we saying that menopausal women are better players than their younger more fertile counterparts?
Rhea, I know I've read some things here about you, but I don't recall, did you play before you started hormone treatments? If so, do you feel you are a weaker player at higher estrogen level?
I'm not saying I disbelieve, but the hormone part of this discussion hit close to home. Long gone are the days, but it lead to me to wonder if I had tracked my competitive pool life side by side with my menstrual cycle if there was a rhyme or reason to be found.
If this is true, good luck quantifying hormones -Fargo folks.
Oh and, yes I played before, but it was for recreation mainly, I was never a good enough player to cash in any tournament nor could I win gambling against other C players unless I was given weight. My real passion for pool didn't begin until I was 4 years into the process of transitioning and that was near the end of 2011 by that time. I don't think I became a low B player until around the 3rd quarter of 2013. And I presently consider myself to be an average B player.
I feel the same way.
So are you saying that if I were to lower my dosage of estrogen intake that my game would improve over time? I'm just wondering what your interpretation of this example suggests? Obviously I cannot completely eliminate estrogen or else I would experience the same symptoms as a menopausal woman but I am just wondering if you think lowering my high estrogen dosages would be beneficial somehow?
"I feel the same way."
Evidence doesn't support these feeling.
Evidence doesn't support these feeling.
Sad state we are in.
I am curious what will happen when a transgender women body builder gets to compete against other actual women.
So what do you mean by this, exactly?
I read this to mean that on any given day my testosterone level can change to a level either helping or hurting my game. Additionally, a woman can have changes in her hormones either helping or hurting her game.
So what's the point?
My opinion (my point) is simply this: There is nothing about the game of billiards that establishes an inherent advantage to one gender or another.
I think more men play,, so more men are better. But there is no advantage in pool by being male, physical or mental.
Seems that pool encompasses both factors the article speaks of -- muscular coordination and spatial ability. So you make get a benefit in one aspect but a reduction in another.
I do know this - and I don't need any scientific survey to prove this. No women is more talented than the top men. And the average women is not as talented as the average man.
You didn't have a passion for pool when you lived in your car outside a pool hall?
I was homeless.
The original question at hand was not can a woman, whether born that way or not, compete with a man. It was a rule question, and as such, my point is completely relevant. In order to discuss this in full you have to address the underlying factor of transgenderism and what that actually encompasses. To only include those that have undergone some form of reassignment is to exclude a large number of those who haven't. That is where the issue of whether a man is more suited to pool either biologically or psychologically would really come into play. I also understand the importance of discussing whether or not hormonal therapies actually change this advantage either one way or the other. I am not well versed in the hormonal argument so I will stick to parts of the discussion that I know.
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JC
Coos Cues
The anecdotal evidence is overwhelming. Whether the science behind is ever proven makes no difference. Men are better at pool and not just because more of them play it.
Also I have noticed that some of the best female players, not all but a disproportionate amount, are rather butchy.
JC
You clearly haven't read the rules, nowhere does it mention that any surgical procedure is necessary to be allowed to compete.
You can find out more about the person Rhea Nicole Brooks. Who is behind the billiard phenom. http://www.facebook.com/TheQueenOfDiamonds
I'm finding this subject to be highly educational. I just found where the NCAA has policies for their sports programs as well. I imagine they have set the course for other organizations to follow:
http://www.transathlete.com/#!policies-college/c8ao
My understanding is the sports programs have been slow to implement these rules. Eventually society will sort out these changes. It never is easy.
http://www.transathlete.com/#!policies-college/c8ao
My understanding is the sports programs have been slow to implement these rules. Eventually society will sort out these changes. It never is easy.