WPA Rules For Transgenders

[Mr. Bond]

Here's some actual reasons to chew on as to why we haven't shown up as world beater players. We're not as selfish as you guys, most of us don't aspire to be the best in something that won't pay the bills, and we don't like having to compete against big babies who whine, cry and carry on during a match. We also don't like the violence and woofing that goes along with gambling.

There is much significance to your statement, perhaps even more than you intended.
You have touched on one of the core differences between men and women, which also happens to be perhaps the only reasonably sound scientific evidence to explain why more men have reached " world beater" status, so to speak.

Men undoubtedly and not surprisingly fit into the well known " risk taker" profile faaaaar more often than women. This of course has nothing to do with shot making, strategy, mental strength, or any other part of game play. It has more to do with, as you have said, women seeking a "well deserved victory" instead of a "win at all cost".

Fortunately, some eastern countries have been presenting billiards to children, male and female, in a safe, respectable, productive manner. I get the feeling that very shortly, the female players coming thru that system are going to be fierce in ways the world has never seen.

Anyway, I see the difference between men and women players as more of a difference in naturally inclined perspective, than ability. It's like the auto mechanic job..... Women can do it as well as men (with the proper tools) but they typically don't pick that job. They just don't want to. It's not their cup of tea. And thats no big psychological mystery, some females simply see pool ( or the pool room scene) as " not girly enough".

There goes some of the potential world beaters.

With pool rooms being mostly male filled, it can get pretty creepy being vastly outnumbered in sometimes seedy remote locations. For you homophobes out there, imagine having to play pool in a gay bar full of lonely men every week.

There goes some more of the world beaters....

Flip the coin....
Women also discovered that dressing up, or undressing, with no talent whatsoever, can generate a lot of money. No practice and no boring drills.

There goes a few more world beaters...


Oh yes and somebody has to make, and watch the new baby world beaters.....

There goes more of the world beaters....

Men have the issue of .....get a job or don't.

Point being again, women have had - and do have "real" reasons for not wanting, not being allowed, or not being able to justify the time and " the risk " that men so easily do. So the lack of women at the "top" makes sense from that particular perspective.

But as the world attitudes change and more females are brought into the game on equal footing, with less "risk", perceived or otherwise, and more reward [ read: respect] I do believe the level of play will rise drastically in the female ranks. As a matter of fact, you can count on it.

Will there ever be a female " world " champion (over the men)?
I dont know.
But I don't think anyone else really does either.
One thing is for sure, many things will need to change before most of them would even want to try.

 

[FranCrimi]

There is much significance to your statement, perhaps even more than you intended.
You have touched on one of the core differences between men and women, which also happens to be perhaps the only reasonably sound scientific evidence to explain why more men have reached " world beater" status, so to speak.

Men undoubtedly and not surprisingly fit into the well known " risk taker" profile faaaaar more often than women. This of course has nothing to do with shot making, strategy, mental strength, or any other part of game play. It has more to do with, as you have said, women seeking a "well deserved victory" instead of a "win at all cost".

Fortunately, some eastern countries have been presenting billiards to children, male and female, in a safe, respectable, productive manner. I get the feeling that very shortly, the female players coming thru that system are going to be fierce in ways the world has never seen.

Anyway, I see the difference between men and women players as more of a difference in naturally inclined perspective, than ability. It's like the auto mechanic job..... Women can do it as well as men (with the proper tools) but they typically don't pick that job. They just don't want to. It's not their cup of tea. And thats no big psychological mystery, some females simply see pool ( or the pool room scene) as " not girly enough".

There goes some of the potential world beaters.

With pool rooms being mostly male filled, it can get pretty creepy being vastly outnumbered in sometimes seedy remote locations. For you homophobes out there, imagine having to play pool in a gay bar full of lonely men every week.

There goes some more of the world beaters....

Flip the coin....
Women also discovered that dressing up, or undressing, with no talent whatsoever, can generate a lot of money. No practice and no boring drills.

There goes a few more world beaters...


Oh yes and somebody has to make, and watch the new baby world beaters.....

There goes more of the world beaters....

Men have the issue of .....get a job or don't.

Point being again, women have had - and do have "real" reasons for not wanting, not being allowed, or not being able to justify the time and " the risk " that men so easily do. So the lack of women at the "top" makes sense from that particular perspective.

But as the world attitudes change and more females are brought into the game on equal footing, with less "risk", perceived or otherwise, and more reward [ read: respect] I do believe the level of play will rise drastically in the female ranks. As a matter of fact, you can count on it.

Will there ever be a female " world " champion (over the men)?
I dont know.
But I don't think anyone else really does either.
One thing is for sure, many things will need to change before most of them would even want to try.

Thank you for your very insightful post. I have spent many years struggling with the issues that I've stated, and I know for a fact that those things held me back from practicing more. I also know for a fact that many of my fellow women players felt the same --- and believe me --- I saw some real talent and great potential in many of them.

I've played with many of them on the WPBA tour. And what did most of us do when a tournament ended? We went home and back to our day jobs. I used to work full time as an accountant to pay my bills, and at night went to pool rooms to try to improve my game. I remember hating myself many mornings standing on a crowded subway after only 2 or 3 hours of sleep, dreading having to face an office-full of rested co-workers. At the end of the day I'd go home to change and head right out, and the cycle would start all over.

And what was my reward for spending all that time in the pool room? Sometimes it was great there, but many times there were disruptive ego-driven, chest-pounding antics that went on for hours. The drive to improve has to be unbelievably strong in order to fade that kind of behavior from the people around you.

 

[dorabelle]

This is crazy. I don't get how just changing your hormones makes anyone a woman. Rita the end of female sports.

 

[DJSTEVEZ]

Thank you for your very insightful post. I have spent many years struggling with the issues that I've stated, and I know for a fact that those things held me back from practicing more. I also know for a fact that many of my fellow women players felt the same --- and believe me --- I saw some real talent and great potential in many of them.

I've played with many of them on the WPBA tour. And what did most of us do when a tournament ended? We went home and back to our day jobs. I used to work full time as an accountant to pay my bills, and at night went to pool rooms to try to improve my game. I remember hating myself many mornings standing on a crowded subway after only 2 or 3 hours of sleep, dreading having to face an office-full of rested co-workers. At the end of the day I'd go home to change and head right out, and the cycle would start all over.

And what was my reward for spending all that time in the pool room? Sometimes it was great there, but many times there were disruptive ego-driven, chest-pounding antics that went on for hours. The drive to improve has to be unbelievably strong in order to fade that kind of behavior from the people around you.

Fran, excellent post. Thank you!

 

[BasementDweller]

Fran, excellent post. Thank you!

Not really.

When it comes to truly desiring to improve one's game -- there aren't too many sports that have a lower bar to get over than pool does. So you don't like the pool hall atmosphere -- then get yourself a table to practice on, find a regular sparing partner, and hit the tournament trail.

What I'm reading is someone that just didn't have the same fire that the champion players had. There's really nothing wrong with that since very few players have it. Instead of just admitting this she is blaming the passionate pool players for being too "selfish" about their games. This is laughable since this single mindedness is pretty much a requirement for being a championship caliber competitor in any sporting endeavor.

 

[FranCrimi]

Not really.

When it comes to truly desiring to improve one's game -- there aren't too many sports that have a lower bar to get over than pool does. So you don't like the pool hall atmosphere -- then get yourself a table to practice on, find a regular sparing partner, and hit the tournament trail.

What I'm reading is someone that just didn't have the same fire that the champion players had. There's really nothing wrong with that since very few players have it. Instead of just admitting this she is blaming the passionate pool players for being too "selfish" about their games. This is laughable since this single mindedness is pretty much a requirement for a being championship caliber competitor in any sporting endeavor.

Shame on you.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Not really.
When it comes to truly desiring to improve one's game -- there aren't too many sports that have a lower bar to get over than pool does. So you don't like the pool hall atmosphere -- then get yourself a table to practice on, find a regular sparing partner, and hit the tournament trail.
What I'm reading is someone that just didn't have the same fire that the champion players had. There's really nothing wrong with that since very few players have it. Instead of just admitting this she is blaming the passionate pool players for being too "selfish" about their games. This is laughable since this single mindedness is pretty much a requirement for a being championship caliber competitor in any sporting endeavor.

I think you're reading too much into what Fran is saying, BD, and at the same time over simplifying what she should do about it. Each of us has our own approach to pool.
Franny has paid her dues, make no mistake about it. How she paid those dues is unique only to herself and it is only to herself that she has to apologize. :smile:

 

[BasementDweller]

Then call me ignorant. There's one thing most women, including myself, aren't willing to do that men are. That is to become totally selfish in a game where the payout is so minimal, it's ridiculous. You have to be selfish to become great. If you're making tons of money, then there's a trade-off that you can make life better for your family.

It's not just about pool. You have to be selfish to be a great athlete because it's takes an incredible amount of time to be great. Now, if there's real money to be made, you will have a support team that will help pick up the slack for you while you neglect your adult responsibilities. However, if you're poor, then you are probably leaving someone in the lurch while you tirelessly practice for a sport that you know will probably not cover your bills.

[...]

First, you probably need at least some talent, but then desire has a whole lot to do with how far you take it. I always struggled with my conscience. So maybe that doesn't make me a candidate for the hall of fame, but I can sleep at night knowing that I took care of what I had to do in my life. Everyone's different.

Here's some actual reasons to chew on as to why we haven't shown up as world beater players. We're not as selfish as you guys, most of us don't aspire to be the best in something that won't pay the bills, and we don't like having to compete against big babies who whine, cry and carry on during a match. We also don't like the violence and woofing that goes along with gambling.

[...]
And what was my reward for spending all that time in the pool room? Sometimes it was great there, but many times there were disruptive ego-driven, chest-pounding antics that went on for hours. The drive to improve has to be unbelievably strong in order to fade that kind of behavior from the people around you.

Shame on you.

What did I say that you don't agree with? You're the one painting with the broad brush here.

 

[erhino41]

How is it a hate crime when I simply COPIED AND PASTED Rhea's own signature line?
It was to show that Rhea has a STRONG desire to be great at pool and considers herself a billiard phenom. It's a good thing to have a strong desire to be great at something. Far from hate.

But nice try.

You responded to this:

It was implied that someone would choose to change their life to play in women's pool tournaments because they're money to be won. That's ridiculous to say the least.

with this:

You can find out more about the person Rhea Nicole Brooks. Who is behind the billiard phenom. http://www.facebook.com/TheQueenOfDiamonds

Your intent is perfectly clear. Backpedaling now doesn't even make sense.

Nice try!

 

[watchez]

And you call my post a Hate Crime. You are the most ridiculous human being that I have dealt with in quite some time. I think I hate you not Rhea.

 

[JC]

I like this idea!

It would result in the majority of the women whining and quitting when they had no chance to cash. They only want to be equal until the check arrives at the table.

Feminism is at the root of most of the problems in America today when you really think about it.

JC

I'm sure the well trained lap dudes here will put this in the running with the other post for whatever that women hating accusation was.

 

[FranCrimi]

What did I say that you don't agree with? You're the one painting with the broad brush here.

Of course shame on you...You have to actually totally immerse yourself in it in order to truly understand what it's like to live in that subculture. I'm not talking about your league match once a week and a night or two of practice with your friends. I'm talking about living in it. It's a whole other animal when you do that, and women think differently about their priorities then men. It's not about whether or not we want to be a champion. It's about whether or not we're willing to hurt others close to us and even ourselves to do it. We draw the line where many men won't.

 

[haystj]

It would result in the majority of the women whining and quitting when they had no chance to cash. .

Well, I'll bite.

I think it would be so much better this way, because now all I see are a bunch of nitty dudes whining and quitting when they have no chance to cash.

And AZ seems to be the roost for a lot those whining birds.

 

[erhino41]

And you call my post a Hate Crime. You are the most ridiculous human being that I have dealt with in quite some time. I think I hate you not Rhea.

Yes, sir, i do. To completely belittle a person's plight and out right accused that person of something so ridiculous is offensive, mean and hurtful. That would definitely classify it as such. I do not care in the least bit how you feel about me. Have the courage of your own convictions and think before you speak.

 

[BasementDweller]

Of course shame on you...You have to actually totally immerse yourself in it in order to truly understand what it's like to live in that subculture. I'm not talking about your league match once a week and a night or two of practice with your friends. I'm talking about living in it. It's a whole other animal when you do that, and women think differently about their priorities then men. It's not about whether or not we want to be a champion. It's about whether or not we're willing to hurt others close to us and even ourselves to do it. We draw the line where many men won't.

Okay -- since you won't actually let me know what it is I said that should make me feel so shameful I will just say the same to you -- Shame on you.

Shame on you for painting this picture that all pool champions (Hall of Famers even) are a bunch of low lifes that don't care about anybody but themselves.

This whole notion that one must live their life in the pool room in order to become a champion is so antiquated.

Now back to the discussion at hand.

 

[FranCrimi]

Okay -- since you won't actually let me know what it is I said that should make me feel so shameful I will just say the same to you -- Shame on you.

Shame on you for painting this picture that all pool champions (Hall of Famers even) are a bunch of low lifes that don't care about anybody but themselves.

This whole notion that one must live their life in the pool room in order to become a champion is so antiquated.

Now back to the discussion at hand.

I'm sorry for you that you have been looking at pool through rose colored glasses, but the reality is that it's not a pretty path to becoming a champion when there's no money to be made.

Maybe someday things will change in the future. We're all keeping our fingers crossed that it does, and that up and coming players will not have to endure what players like myself had to endure.

People will behave themselves when there is money to be made and they're told that if they don't, they're out. I think of the IPT. Yes, it was a farce, but for a short while, the players all saw an opportunity to make real money. They dressed nicely and acted well. That's what happens when the rewards are real, or at least seemed real at the time. People start to get their act together and start to behave. Yes, there will always be the odd exception but for the most part, people can change when they have to.

 

[Neil]

Of course shame on you...You have to actually totally immerse yourself in it in order to truly understand what it's like to live in that subculture. I'm not talking about your league match once a week and a night or two of practice with your friends. I'm talking about living in it. It's a whole other animal when you do that, and women think differently about their priorities then men. It's not about whether or not we want to be a champion. It's about whether or not we're willing to hurt others close to us and even ourselves to do it. We draw the line where many men won't.

Fran, I think you have your finger on the reason why women will never equal the men, but you fail to see it, despite even naming it.

Men and women do not think alike. Their brains are wired differently. This isn't a bad thing, rather, it is a good thing. Women will never be able to think like men do when it comes to competitive things. It's just the way we were created. You can train till the cows come home, and it won't get you there.

Sure, you can make any shot Earl can make, so can I. But, that is only part of the needed equation to be a winner. As you know, after a certain point, pool becomes about 10% physical, and 90% mental. Women just don't have the capacity for that full mental state that is required.

For that matter, most of us, men included, don't have the mental wiring to be an elite player, such as Earl or Efren. No amount of training will get us there. We can become somewhat competitive, but never get to "that" level of play.

Now, to state again, it is not a bad thing that women are wired differently than men are. Nurturing is just one example. Sure, men can raise kids on their own, but they will always be "muddling" through it, working on "getting the job done". Whereas, women have that natural loving and caring instinct that makes the job so much easier for them. It just is what it is. Not good or bad.

 

[cueman]

Transgender rules.....hmm.

I suppose if you are of the camp that believes men are physically superior to women when it comes to pool, then it would be the physical body of a man that you fear in competition, as opposed to the physical body of a woman.

In that case, people with a natural born body of a male, no matter their sexual identity, should only play in men's events.

Likewise, a female body, in theory, should only compete in women's events...etc

Or - we could not worry about silly shit and just hold events open to anyone.

Some men were upset when Jean beat them in open events. But even so, if there were only true open events it would be the end of Women professional pool players making a good living from prize money. A few women might hang out in the top 32 on a top pro level open tour and not make any real money. One way to find out is get the Women's organization to give all top ten women waivers to play all the top open events that pay more than $3000 and see how they fair.

 

[Mr. Bond]

1) Men and women do not think alike. Their brains are wired differently. This isn't a bad thing....

2) Women just don't have the capacity for that full mental state that is required.

3) For that matter, most of us, men included, don't have the mental wiring to be an elite player, such as Earl or Efren. No amount of training will get us there. We can become somewhat competitive, but never get to "that" level of play.

1. Absolutely true.

2. "Capacity" is, I believe, the wrong word here.
Talented men and women both have the capacity. But, as Fran has mentioned, as natural born risk takers, a man will be more " selfish " ( more likely to " give up everything") than a woman, to achieve the same goal. As you have pointed out, this is simply a difference in mindset, but I personally wouldn't go so far as to say that women don't have the capacity at all. I don't think we know that for sure.

3. Also very true, and many times for the same practical reasons as the women.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Yet there are a hundreds of male players today who would rob her blind. Wrong century?

JC

I know male players that have never even considered being a pro that Allison Fisher won't play even with. How many times has she been a World Champion?