WPBA why top players were gay?
- Thread starter bobroberts
- Start date
Not necessarily. It may not be the simple addition of testosterone (or any particular chemical). It may be the way in which these hormones and other body chemistry combine in some people that is unique and that this particular combination only happens in some people some times.
A female body with the addition of testosterone would not be the same as a male body with added testosterone. In males it often leads to taller stature, dull normal intellect and other characteristics.
I doubt that we know what particular chemicals or which mixture is the source and it may be as Melissa implies the addition (or combination) of chemicals during gestation (pregnancy) that leads to a different body result. In this situation the female baby would not necessarily have "more" testosterone but would have been affected by the extra hormones in the mother's body which in turn results in a slightly different brain configuration.
For instance, children who learn a foreign language before the age of five (or so) have an easier time learning any foreign language in later life. It appears that early exposure leads to a rearrangement of the brain that facilitates language acquissition later in life.
There may be early experiences, fostered by the body chemistry, that leads to body / brain changes that are of use in pool playing later on. The early experiences could be chemical, environmental or experiential. It is interesting that one of the covariates of exceptional play may be homsexuality in women.
One of the first studies would be to determine what this group of women have in common that other exceptional female players do not have. Homosexuality is only a way to group a set of women for purposes of finding potential common sources that may have lead to their exceptional play.
As Melissa points out, it may be that spacial recognition and the ability to reason in spacial terms is the source of their exceptional play. This implies that teaching people (men and women) to reason in spacial terms would improve their ability to play.
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Forget sexual preference for a moment. If you want to know why the best are the best I can give you an answer.
Some years back (2003 ?) I had the opportunity to ask some of the best women's players how much they practiced. Most said they were able to put in a couple (2-4) hours "most days" of the week. Now this was during the Allison-Karen domination period,which Allie was getting the best of. When I asked Karen she said simply she practices 6 hours "every day". When I asked Allison she said simply that she practiced 8 hours "every day". :wink:
Some years back (2003 ?) I had the opportunity to ask some of the best women's players how much they practiced. Most said they were able to put in a couple (2-4) hours "most days" of the week. Now this was during the Allison-Karen domination period,which Allie was getting the best of. When I asked Karen she said simply she practices 6 hours "every day". When I asked Allison she said simply that she practiced 8 hours "every day". :wink:
One of things I have noted is that there is a subset of people who play pool who are not interested in learning how to control a cue ball. It is simply beyond them to consider more than one variable at a time. These people are not able to learn to play well because they don’t want to be bothered with all that stuff. People usually do not want to do (or learn) the things they are not good at doing and thus it would seem that their ability to reason in special terms is limited.
On the other hand, there are people who reason well in special terms but they do not have the ability to see the results of their reasoning. That is they are not able to predict or visualize the results of their reasoning though they know what they want to do.
In addition, there are people who do not have the fine motor coordination to control a cue ball as they want to control it.
To some extent all of us non-professionals have one or more of these problems or we would be professional caliber. But even with the necessary abilities one needs a particular interpersonal style that is suitable to a competitive environment to become a professional player.
Natural ability can be broken down in many ways and one can conduct self assessments to learn if the individual has the “natural” abilities to pursue a desired career. Some have the total package – most of us do not.
I agree that with the right "package" one then needs the determination and tenacity to achieve that level of play. But it begins with natural ability that can be fine tuned.
On the other hand, there are people who reason well in special terms but they do not have the ability to see the results of their reasoning. That is they are not able to predict or visualize the results of their reasoning though they know what they want to do.
In addition, there are people who do not have the fine motor coordination to control a cue ball as they want to control it.
To some extent all of us non-professionals have one or more of these problems or we would be professional caliber. But even with the necessary abilities one needs a particular interpersonal style that is suitable to a competitive environment to become a professional player.
Natural ability can be broken down in many ways and one can conduct self assessments to learn if the individual has the “natural” abilities to pursue a desired career. Some have the total package – most of us do not.
I agree that with the right "package" one then needs the determination and tenacity to achieve that level of play. But it begins with natural ability that can be fine tuned.
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that is one very likely answer
That is one very likely answer. Aside from having more time, people that are different in any way may be more driven. It is truly amazing how many people who are disadvantaged from birth, injury, or illness go on to be olympic champions, by definition the best in the world at that moment. Not saying that any sexuality is a disadvantage but the way a person perceives themselves and others perceive them can be.
Hu
That is one very likely answer. Aside from having more time, people that are different in any way may be more driven. It is truly amazing how many people who are disadvantaged from birth, injury, or illness go on to be olympic champions, by definition the best in the world at that moment. Not saying that any sexuality is a disadvantage but the way a person perceives themselves and others perceive them can be.
Hu
I thought about what Allie and Karen said and came to the conclusion that I could never dedicate myself to that much practice. I just don't have that kind of self discipline. I don't think either one of them practices that much anymore and I suspect a number of the other ladies have found a way to spend more time at the table during the week. Of course as JoeW said there's even more to the story of what makes a champion. Not sure if sex figures into it or not, race drivers swear it improves their reflexes.
Thank you Hu! This is getting closer to the truth. It's all about drive, determination and perseverance. Why do some small athletes make it in major sports. 5'6" guys in the NBA and playing MLB. Or a 5'9" 175 pound defensive back in the NFL. Baby, that ain't testosterone, that is plain old hard work.
I contend that a straight woman can be as good or better than a gay woman at any sport, including pool. IF she wants it badly enough! And if a gay woman excels, she must want it badly too. You can be the gayest of the gays and not amount to a hill of beans as a pool player, unless you work your ass off to get there. They have no inherent advantage imo.
Again it is my opinion that sexual preference has absolutely nothing to do with excellence in sports. The fact that there are many gay women who do well, only indicates to me that they prefer sports to other pastimes. But preference alone does not make you good at anything. You still must work hard and practice diligently to succeed.
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Absolutely!
How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice!
When Allison and Karen dominated, they were treating pool like a career. Most of the others were treating it like a hobby.
Steve
Or, it could be that more men play pool than women and therefore there are more good men pool players.
And, since we don't really know what the testerone levels of the professional women pool players are or what their sexual preference is, and since the best ones tend to be from Europe and the British Isles where snooker is the game they play from a young age, I'm going to go out on a limb and say a background and training from a young age at snooker gives women pros an advantage.
Now back to the testerone in the womb theories.
Your thoughts are not scientific as well.
Science supports your position that it is hard work that helps develop skill.
Science also supports the contention that some women are predisposed to become athletes.
Scientist are involved in the study which is at the crux of this thread.
From my earlier post:
"...Scientists believe that the link is caused by different levels of the hormones testosterone and estrogen in the womb -- and the effect they have on both brain development and finger length. This is nothing new, since scientists have known for many years that elevated levels of testosterone -- or other hormones closely resembling testosterone -- can cause the brains of both males and females to be more "masculine."
It has long been known that boys tend to do better on math tests while girls do better at writing, reading and verbal tests.
"Testosterone has been argued to promote development of the areas of the brain which are often associated with spatial and mathematical skills," said Dr Mark Brosnan, Head of the Department of Psychology at the University of Bath, who led the study...."
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THE EFFECTS OF GENDER AND ATHLETIC EXPERIENCE ON SPATIAL ABILITY TEST SCORES
SARA B. HAYDEL
DEPARTMENT OF PSYCHOLOGY
LOYOLA UNIVERSITY
"...spatial ability is a combination of biological factors such as gender, and socio-cultural factors that influence the development of spatial ability in both males and females. Spatial experience gained from activities and/or training may be a result of women with higher male hormone levels actively seeking out and exploring areas that are generally considered male sex typed.... "
Pool anyone?
Just saying.:smile:
I believe bobroberts was asking a non homophobic question. I also think his thread got off track. I think I and others have given some acurrate assesments of the answer. The PC answer (as in politically correct not IBM).
Now to address the question from the hijacked and non PC side of the thread. The simple answer is YES gay women are better pool players. Why? Because gay women eat at the Y :tongue: and therefore are more adept at peering into the dark corner pockets of the table whereas straight women have gone crosseyed from looking at the one eyed python and see multiple images
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:rotflmao1::duck:uttahere:
Now to address the question from the hijacked and non PC side of the thread. The simple answer is YES gay women are better pool players. Why? Because gay women eat at the Y :tongue: and therefore are more adept at peering into the dark corner pockets of the table whereas straight women have gone crosseyed from looking at the one eyed python and see multiple images
.:rotflmao1::duck:
uttahere:I believe bobroberts was asking a non homophobic question. I also think his thread got off track. I think I and others have given some acurrate assesments of the answer. The PC answer (as in politically correct not IBM).
Now to address the question from the hijacked and non PC side of the thread. The simple answer is YES gay women are better pool players. Why? Because gay women eat at the Y :tongue: and therefore are more adept at peering into the dark corner pockets of the table whereas straight women have gone crosseyed from looking at the one eyed python and see multiple images
:rotflmao1::duck:
Did you also hijack this thread?:smile:
I appreciate all the answers even the silly ones. I guess it comes down to a combination of a lot of different reasons why they were more dominant in the last 10 years.
Hard work is definitely one of the reasons. Focus is another. Testosterone seems to be another. Playing from an early age is definitely another.
I wish i could play half as good as these women, but its not in my genes.
Hard work is definitely one of the reasons. Focus is another. Testosterone seems to be another. Playing from an early age is definitely another.
I wish i could play half as good as these women, but its not in my genes.
If testosterone is a reason then that also argues for the guys will always be better than the girls debate.
You know.....maybe. I usually argue against the testosterone thing when it comes to skill but the military HAS determined that female fighter pilots SHOULD be able to best their male counterparts because of better hand eye coordination, faster reaction speed and because their bodies are shaped to handle g forces better. But when they actually go head to head the men USUALLY win.
This is just that same as asking, "Why aren't female pool players more attractive on average?" I often wonder why the wind from winter doesn't just save itself up and blow in the summer when we need it, but I wouldn't be silly enough to pose it on a forum as a serious question.
Not in your jeans either! :grin::grin::grin:
.......who by the way lived with our jr. high girls gym teacher, but I'm sure there were no shinanigans going on there!:thumbup:
See....it's real easy to pose a question....and get silly answers ....or good answers like Al Gore and his carbon credit scheme.:wink:
OK, let me ask you teh contrapositive of your question.
Why should straight people define what it is to live a good lifestyle?