Alleged padding of B&R's in the UPL tourney?? WTF?

[stevea]

This is a good idea, but why not make a volunteer score the whole match (all matches) and the players sign the score sheet before submitting it? Just ask for a pool of voluteers and don't let friends score friend's matches.

You're right, it is simple. :wink:

Dave

I agree with you... If they cheated or not there should still be a score keeper for each match. People would volunteer (i know i would have, I was even at the event). I say don't give them a chance to cheat in the first place, there should have been a score keeper to begin with!

EDIT: or just have more camera's recording the entire event (like someone else said).

 

[poolmaster]

I agree with you... If they cheated or not there should still be a score keeper for each match. People would volunteer (i know i would have, I was even at the event). I say don't give them a chance to cheat in the first place, there should have been a score keeper to begin with!

EDIT: or just have more camera's recording the entire event (like someone else said).

Well said!!

 

[foxcues]

I agree with you... If they cheated or not there should still be a score keeper for each match. People would volunteer (i know i would have, I was even at the event). I say don't give them a chance to cheat in the first place, there should have been a score keeper to begin with!

EDIT: or just have more camera's recording the entire event (like someone else said).

Saturday John Ditorro was asking the crowd if anyone wanted to be score keepers for the pro event.

 

[Johnnyt]

Saturday John Ditorro was asking the crowd if anyone wanted to be score keepers for the pro event.

Before the fact or after? Did anyone say they would? Johnnyt

 

[Johnnyt]

Well I could handle the truth but no one is going to tell it, so I won't be betting on matches anymore and if not betting won't be buying PPV. I can't watch pool w/o betting. Johnnyt

 

[Scott Lee]

This belongs in NPR...not here, please.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Maybe they are using the same math Neobama is using for Stimulus job creation.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

This belongs in NPR...not here, please.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

LOL, been there, done that.

 

[donny mills]

People will always justify it, some how some way. The greatest standard is either the person had it coming or they should have known better.

If something happened at Corey's tournament, that will be the statement made if the player(s) involved ever made one. They will state that with the format, what did Coery expect? And they won't think they were cheating the other players, at most they will think that they cheated the tournament.

And if someone would have spoke out LOUD they would have taken more heat that the person who actually was accused. It is kind of like when some guy that you know dances with your girlfriend. If he gets too friendly and you say something, you can guarantee he will switch it around and you will be made out to be the bad guy.

Good point.

 

[donny mills]

I just got back from Tampa and was there at the Innisbrook resort. The mood there among the pro players was not good. Privately, every player in the event I spoke to detailed to me that there was cheating and it was disgustingly blatant. The main issue being discussed was the 10 break and runs that were marked on the score sheet, six by one party , 4 by another. Up until that point most matches had just a few break and runs per match so this number stood out as statistically improbable.

Two spectators I spoke too watched good parts of that match. One told me that he saw the front end of the match and there was no break and runs a and instead he saw players missing. He went to eat after about a third of match was done. The other said he saw the back end of the match and saw a few break and runs but he also saw players hanging up the 10 and 9s. Nothing is actually proven but in the minds of all the players who were there at the event, there was no question in their minds as to what happened.

Any time you do a round robin format that the scores are listed, you have issues of collusion. I think the format is really interesting and the players and spectators get to see alot of pool. Its a shame you cant do the scoring in the blind until each cut is made, then start the scoring over so its not cumulative.

Kudos to Corey and the Seminoles for putting on a great event though. The tournament room was very nice and the resort they chose to have the event at was outstanding. The diamond barboxes they setup for the amateur event played great and the KF Cues tour had 78 players there on Saturday. Thx again to Tony and Natalie Crosby for running that event.

This is spot on.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

See.
Even more support from some people who were there.

But despite that, you are still gonna have the guys who feel like poolplayers are good clean and wholesome, who can't believe that some of their heros, are really crooks.

 

[momthebomb]

I was there ans I am well aware of the situation. What really got to me is that I have a son who is just testing the waters with these guys and he won a spot at this event. I think it's a shame that some of the players he idolizes would represent pool in this manner. I am not an idgit and know the ins and outs of the game and I am also well aware that there are a lot of unsavory players out there but I really really would like pool to be taken more seriously as a sport and to be more available to young people. I know that as long as you have highly visible players pulling stunts like this it's going to be a long time coming.
So, what do I tell this kid? He lives and breathes pool and I have always encouraged him but I sure as hell don't want him to EVER become a player like the guys in question.
Wow.

 

[JCIN]

Still waiting for someone to post their real name and say exactly who cheated and how. Based on this thread and the accusations leveled every single player in the event is guilty until proven innocent.

I dont know if anyone cheated. I would really like to know one way or the other. If someone wants to enlighten me please do. Specifically and in detail not in suspicion and " I knew it was happening" If you know then please explain how you know.

I have my opinions but no proof one way or the other.

I'm serious here. If someone can prove someone cheated let's do it. No one was able to put enough together on site to stand up and point at someone face to face. If someone can do it here then do it. Maybe I missed it but at no time did I see someone face to face tell anyone "You cheated."

We all know deals are made and things can happen but that is different than standing up and telling a man to his face that he is a liar and a cheater. Unless you have the balls and proof to do that all of this is just noise. Every single player in that event had the opportunity to cheat. Who did or didn't?

I can't point to anyone and with a clear conscious call them out for cheating because I didn't personally see it. If someone here can then they should. We get the game we deserve so let's start cleaning it up.

 

[Majic]

Still waiting for someone to post their real name and say exactly who cheated and how. Based on this thread and the accusations leveled every single player in the event is guilty until proven innocent.

I dont know if anyone cheated. I would really like to know one way or the other. If someone wants to enlighten me please do. Specifically and in detail not in suspicion and " I knew it was happening" If you know then please explain how you know.

I have my opinions but no proof one way or the other.

I'm serious here. If someone can prove someone cheated let's do it. No one was able to put enough together on site to stand up and point at someone face to face. If someone can do it here then do it. Maybe I missed it but at no time did I see someone face to face tell anyone "You cheated."

We all know deals are made and things can happen but that is different than standing up and telling a man to his face that he is a liar and a cheater. Unless you have the balls and proof to do that all of this is just noise. Every single player in that event had the opportunity to cheat. Who did or didn't?

I can't point to anyone and with a clear conscious call them out for cheating because I didn't personally see it. If someone here can then they should. We get the game we deserve so let's start cleaning it up.

I thought the same thinig when Morra made accusations on your stream Fiday night. Why didn't he point it out or are the players really looking the other way?

 

[JCIN]

I thought the same thinig when Morra made accusations on your stream Fiday night. Why didn't he point it out or are the players really looking the other way?

A few players thought something was going on but just like here no one seemed to be able to actually prove anything which is why I did not bring it up on the stream. If I could have proved anyone was cheating you can bet your ass I would have been talking about it non stop. I couldn't so I saw no need to get everyone stirred up and talking about something no one could prove that would be nothing but negative.

If I could prove anything I would be right here talking about it. I was there for most of the discussions and no one could make the case to DQ someone well enough to do it so I am curious how some here claim to be able to. If you can then do it.

 

[DrMikeUSN]

I agree with JCIN here, stand up tell your real name, and point out the facts. For most of my adult life I was in Law Enforcement, and prior to making and arrest, you have to have probable cause.

Being defied as: Facts or circumstances, leaving a reasonable prudent person to believe that a crime has, is or will be committed.

Note: Reasonable Prudent Person, Those that were not there, and not in the tournament, and no affected by the payouts should stand up and say what they saw. Then and only then would I entertain the fact that someone cheated. The ones affected by the payouts are not reasonable. An eye witness that states they watched a match and saw 4 break and runs, and more were reported would stand up in my book.

I watched the entire Strickland and Williams match and 3 break and runs were reported, 2 by Williams and 1 by Strickland and I watched the set... I was an eye witness to that match.

Now please someone come forward with the eye witness in public forum, with their real name, and tell me the facts. Otherwise, what the hell good are we doing here? We are in a public forum *****ing about cheating without probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion, and this is accessible to the general public and we are making our sport look worse than it is.

IMHO.

Still waiting for someone to post their real name and say exactly who cheated and how. Based on this thread and the accusations leveled every single player in the event is guilty until proven innocent.

I dont know if anyone cheated. I would really like to know one way or the other. If someone wants to enlighten me please do. Specifically and in detail not in suspicion and " I knew it was happening" If you know then please explain how you know.

I have my opinions but no proof one way or the other.

I'm serious here. If someone can prove someone cheated let's do it. No one was able to put enough together on site to stand up and point at someone face to face. If someone can do it here then do it. Maybe I missed it but at no time did I see someone face to face tell anyone "You cheated."

We all know deals are made and things can happen but that is different than standing up and telling a man to his face that he is a liar and a cheater. Unless you have the balls and proof to do that all of this is just noise. Every single player in that event had the opportunity to cheat. Who did or didn't?

I can't point to anyone and with a clear conscious call them out for cheating because I didn't personally see it. If someone here can then they should. We get the game we deserve so let's start cleaning it up.

 

[greyghost]

indifference

I thought the same thinig when Morra made accusations on your stream Fiday night. Why didn't he point it out or are the players really looking the other way?

If players are looking the other way....

"this kind of evil is that which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men"

Grey Ghost

 

[ShootingArts]

interesting

I agree with JCIN here, stand up tell your real name, and point out the facts. For most of my adult life I was in Law Enforcement, and prior to making and arrest, you have to have probable cause.

Being defied as: Facts or circumstances, leaving a reasonable prudent person to believe that a crime has, is or will be committed.

Note: Reasonable Prudent Person, Those that were not there, and not in the tournament, and no affected by the payouts should stand up and say what they saw. Then and only then would I entertain the fact that someone cheated. The ones affected by the payouts are not reasonable. An eye witness that states they watched a match and saw 4 break and runs, and more were reported would stand up in my book.

I watched the entire Strickland and Williams match and 3 break and runs were reported, 2 by Williams and 1 by Strickland and I watched the set... I was an eye witness to that match.

Now please someone come forward with the eye witness in public forum, with their real name, and tell me the facts. Otherwise, what the hell good are we doing here? We are in a public forum *****ing about cheating without probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion, and this is accessible to the general public and we are making our sport look worse than it is.

IMHO.

First you have several typo's but even after the typo's are ignored you say that the victims aren't a reasonable person. Interesting take for someone involved in law enforcement. I've seen that viewpoint a time or two but only when the LEO wanted to sweep something under the rug. Vandals cut down a fair sized pecan tree of mine. Despite the fact it was sawn down and the stump and next piece would be a perfect match if put together I was told there was no way to prove it was my pecan tree cut down and laying on someone else's property. Several thousand dollars of value gone and I couldn't do a damned thing because the LEO and his superior wanted to play games. This moron with two years experience was the trainer for the rookies on the force!

This deal at the tournament is a case where it may be a swan. However if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck the odds are pretty damned good that it is a duck! Too many people that were there that can't weigh in publicly because of the effect it could have on future income have weighed in privately. I now say the thing is a duck and should be going in the gumbo. The conflict of a promoter being involved and the fact that all pro players have to scrape for every crumb they can get means this one gets swept under the rug. Welcome to the real world of pool. Nothing matters except who controls the dollars.

Hu

 

[ShootingArts]

You could tell him what I told my mom!

I was there ans I am well aware of the situation. What really got to me is that I have a son who is just testing the waters with these guys and he won a spot at this event. I think it's a shame that some of the players he idolizes would represent pool in this manner. I am not an idgit and know the ins and outs of the game and I am also well aware that there are a lot of unsavory players out there but I really really would like pool to be taken more seriously as a sport and to be more available to young people. I know that as long as you have highly visible players pulling stunts like this it's going to be a long time coming.
So, what do I tell this kid? He lives and breathes pool and I have always encouraged him but I sure as hell don't want him to EVER become a player like the guys in question.
Wow.

If you are a smart mom you tell your kid that pool is a dangerous seedy world to live in and if you try to make it a career you will be involved in many things an ethical person doesn't want to be involved in.

This was true in the early seventies when I had to make the decision your son has to make now. It is still true today. Pool is a great game. It is a terrible sport or career.

Your son has to be one of the top six or eight players in the world or extremely lucky to make a good living at pool from competition and endorsements. If he is handsome, articulate, and able to win world class events from day one he might be able to find a real sponsor. Most of the sponsors are a joke that don't begin to pay expenses much less a living.

I beat some of the very best and I had a chance to hit the road with one of the greatest road players of the time. I still think that turning my back on pool as a career is one of the smartest things I ever did.

Hu

 

[Rubyron]

My words to Corey on this subject were "If you make this accusation you can't take it back so you better be damn sure you're right before you do it because some day it could be you in that spot." .

I think the only person who could prove this happened is Corey (or whoever saw the score sheet). Corey might not want to come forward with this if he ever wants to play in another Dragon Promotions event...and I wouldn't blame him.

I just find it hard to believe he would make something like this up.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I think the only person who could prove this happened is Corey (or whoever saw the score sheet). Corey might not want to come forward with this if he ever wants to play in another Dragon Promotions event...and I wouldn't blame him.

I just find it hard to believe he would make something like this up.

DING DING DING
We have a winner!