rank these players

ask shannon or varner if they would like to play alex one hole?

Chris,
As a pro player and major league gambler who posts here with us, I have lots of respect for you.

My opinion is that Shannon beats Alex in 1P. Did you forget all the major "Legends of One Pocket" tournaments that Shannon has won?
What major One Pocket titles does Alex hold?

Also, in the finals of the 2000 World One Pocket Championship, Nick Varner beat Alex 4-0. People forget that Nick has World Championships in 1P, Banks, 9 Ball, 8 ball and 14.1.

Alex's best game is 9 ball. U.S. Open & World Champion. Just like Nick Varner.

Also, Varner has 2 Derby City Classic championships...the 1999 Banks title and the 2000 One Pocket Championship.

Shannon Daulton has 4 DCC championships....the 2000 Banks title, the 2001 9 Ball title, the 2001 All-Around title and the 2003 9 Ball title.

Alex has zero wins at the DCC.
 
Good post Jay

Assuming all four were in their prime, I'll take Varner if they're playing One Pocket, 9-Ball, Banks and 14.1. Shannon and Alex tied for second. Nick's a big favorite at 14.1 and equal to Shannon and Red at Banks. He can also win (it's close) against any one of the three others at One Pocket or 9-Ball. Nick stands up well in a long session and rarely has a weak moment. He NEVER gives up! I've seen the other guys have bad days and bad matches.

On a game by game basis, I like Varner at 14.1, Shannon at Banks, Alex at One Pocket and 9-Ball. For REALLY big money, like a $1,000 9-Ball or 5K a game One Hole, Cornbread might just be the favorite. Although Alex and Shannon handle high stakes pretty well also. Red could be a very intimidating opponent for anyone!

Jay,
I like your thinking here, as you give Nick the credit he deserves. many younger players have no idea what a force he was in his prime.

Varner is head & shoulders above Alex and Shannon in 14.1. Shannon doesn't even play much 14.1.
1 Pocket, I'm giving the slightest of edges to the Doughboy, Nick 2nd by a whisker. Shannons credentials in 1P are awesome!
Banks-Push between Daulton & Varner.
8 Ball-Varner
9 Ball-Alex. His U.S. Open & World 9 Ball Championship were against stronger fields than when Nick won his. Deeper talent pool today. I also give Alex the edge in 10 ball.

All four of these great champions had / have tons of gamble and heart.
 
Chris,
As a pro player and major league gambler who posts here with us, I have lots of respect for you.

My opinion is that Shannon beats Alex in 1P. Did you forget all the major "Legends of One Pocket" tournaments that Shannon has won?
What major One Pocket titles does Alex hold?

Also, in the finals of the 2000 World One Pocket Championship, Nick Varner beat Alex 4-0. People forget that Nick has World Championships in 1P, Banks, 9 Ball, 8 ball and 14.1.

Alex's best game is 9 ball. U.S. Open & World Champion. Just like Nick Varner.

Also, Varner has 2 Derby City Classic championships...the 1999 Banks title and the 2000 One Pocket Championship.

Shannon Daulton has 4 DCC championships....the 2000 Banks title, the 2001 9 Ball title, the 2001 All-Around title and the 2003 9 Ball title.

Alex has zero wins at the DCC.

thats cause he is out gambling all night.
 
Great Post..........

Chris,
As a pro player and major league gambler who posts here with us, I have lots of respect for you.

My opinion is that Shannon beats Alex in 1P. Did you forget all the major "Legends of One Pocket" tournaments that Shannon has won?
What major One Pocket titles does Alex hold?

Also, in the finals of the 2000 World One Pocket Championship, Nick Varner beat Alex 4-0. People forget that Nick has World Championships in 1P, Banks, 9 Ball, 8 ball and 14.1.

Alex's best game is 9 ball. U.S. Open & World Champion. Just like Nick Varner.

Also, Varner has 2 Derby City Classic championships...the 1999 Banks title and the 2000 One Pocket Championship.

Shannon Daulton has 4 DCC championships....the 2000 Banks title, the 2001 9 Ball title, the 2001 All-Around title and the 2003 9 Ball title.

Alex has zero wins at the DCC.

I agree with every comment you make in your post. The only thing I would add is that Nick was enjoying multiple world titles before Alex was even born.
 
Chris,
As a pro player and major league gambler who posts here with us, I have lots of respect for you.

My opinion is that Shannon beats Alex in 1P. Did you forget all the major "Legends of One Pocket" tournaments that Shannon has won?
What major One Pocket titles does Alex hold?

Also, in the finals of the 2000 World One Pocket Championship, Nick Varner beat Alex 4-0. People forget that Nick has World Championships in 1P, Banks, 9 Ball, 8 ball and 14.1.

Alex's best game is 9 ball. U.S. Open & World Champion. Just like Nick Varner.

Also, Varner has 2 Derby City Classic championships...the 1999 Banks title and the 2000 One Pocket Championship.

Shannon Daulton has 4 DCC championships....the 2000 Banks title, the 2001 9 Ball title, the 2001 All-Around title and the 2003 9 Ball title.

Alex has zero wins at the DCC.

i dont give a shit about a tourney never have.
im talking about gambling for the money.
these guys have no chance with alex if they are in their prime or not.
and 14.1 ask john s about alex playing that game and i love johns 14.1 game.
no american could play alex no chance for money.
 
Chris,
As a pro player and major league gambler who posts here with us, I have lots of respect for you.

My opinion is that Shannon beats Alex in 1P. Did you forget all the major "Legends of One Pocket" tournaments that Shannon has won?
What major One Pocket titles does Alex hold?

Also, in the finals of the 2000 World One Pocket Championship, Nick Varner beat Alex 4-0. People forget that Nick has World Championships in 1P, Banks, 9 Ball, 8 ball and 14.1.

Alex's best game is 9 ball. U.S. Open & World Champion. Just like Nick Varner.

Also, Varner has 2 Derby City Classic championships...the 1999 Banks title and the 2000 One Pocket Championship.

Shannon Daulton has 4 DCC championships....the 2000 Banks title, the 2001 9 Ball title, the 2001 All-Around title and the 2003 9 Ball title.

Alex has zero wins at the DCC.

All those guys are double tough and champions. Still for the dough I like Alex when he decides to like pool. He made me a believer.

When it comes to action there is a reason that DFWTP is a well known saying.

(Don't Fool With The Pinoys)

Shannon and Nick in their prime playing Alex at their best games in his prime would be amazing to see and gambling all the way around IMO. Out of those I think when Shannon was in dead punch playing one pocket he could have given anyone fits playing one hole.

Favorite Shannon Daulton story:

Three years ago I was sitting in the lobby talking to Shane and Shannon came strolling by. It was late and he had had a few so he was feeling good and in a good natured way started woofing at Shane a little talking about betting some crazy bazillion dollar amount of money. Shane said something like "You don't have that much" and that's when Shannon dropped one of the best lines of all time:

"Son there is three things I ain't on. That's a schedule, a diet, or a budget."
 
i dont give a shit about a tourney never have.
im talking about gambling for the money.
these guys have no chance with alex if they are in their prime or not.
and 14.1 ask john s about alex playing that game and i love johns 14.1 game.
no american could play alex no chance for money.

I liked your first response better. I don't understand your first sentence in this one.

So why is Alex playing cards? He can't get a game with NO American??
 
All those guys are double tough and champions. Still for the dough I like Alex when he decides to like pool. He made me a believer.

When it comes to action there is a reason that DFWTP is a well known saying.

(Don't Fool With The Pinoys)

Shannon and Nick in their prime playing Alex at their best games in his prime would be amazing to see and gambling all the way around IMO. Out of those I think when Shannon was in dead punch playing one pocket he could have given anyone fits playing one hole.

Favorite Shannon Daulton story:

Three years ago I was sitting in the lobby talking to Shane and Shannon came strolling by. It was late and he had had a few so he was feeling good and in a good natured way started woofing at Shane a little talking about betting some crazy bazillion dollar amount of money. Shane said something like "You don't have that much" and that's when Shannon dropped one of the best lines of all time:

"Son there is three things I ain't on. That's a schedule, a diet, or a budget."

JCIN,
That's a great SD story and one that I haven't heard before. Thanks for posting it!

Remember when he was playing Mizerak and right before the lag, Shannon turned to the Miz and asked "Care to bet on yourself?" Mizerak declined. :)
 
JCIN,
That's a great SD story and one that I haven't heard before. Thanks for posting it!

Remember when he was playing Mizerak and right before the lag, Shannon turned to the Miz and asked "Care to bet on yourself?" Mizerak declined. :)

C'mon Terry, that's not really fair, is it? Wasn't Miz one of the non-gambling champions? That sounds like Shannon needling the Miz more than anything.

These threads about who would beat who are fun, I guess, but really are just a debate with no conclusion.

While Shannon undoubtedly has more trophies than Alex has height, there is no doubt in my mind Shannon would NOT leave the buffet line to play Alex. The game would never happen. Shannon, despite all the talk, is way too careful to get in a game like that. On the flipside, Alex would unquestionably swim across an ocean if he got to play Shannon everyday.
 
I liked your first response better. I don't understand your first sentence in this one.

So why is Alex playing cards? He can't get a game with NO American??

it means who cares what they have done in tourneys.
if they want to play alex i can make it go down.
 
who's the best all around player?

1. alex
2. nick varner
3. shannon
4. cornbread
You listed four great all around players -- including one from an different generation entirely (Cornbread), one about a half a generation different (Varner), so it is tough to compare. Between Alex and Shannon, I give Shannon the edge in One pocket and Banks, and 9-ball edge to Alex, so it really comes down to how you weigh the different games in your all-around. I tend to give extra weight to One Pocket and Banks :)

But all of these guys are likely Hall of Fame players (some already are in) either in the BCA or the One Pocket Hall of Fame, or potentially both...
 
ALEX
NICK
SHANNON
CORNBREAD


"all around" @ the peak of their power, and, in ALEX'S case, is yet to be seen
 
C'mon Terry, that's not really fair, is it? Wasn't Miz one of the non-gambling champions? That sounds like Shannon needling the Miz more than anything.

These threads about who would beat who are fun, I guess, but really are just a debate with no conclusion.

While Shannon undoubtedly has more trophies than Alex has height, there is no doubt in my mind Shannon would NOT leave the buffet line to play Alex. The game would never happen. Shannon, despite all the talk, is way too careful to get in a game like that. On the flipside, Alex would unquestionably swim across an ocean if he got to play Shannon everyday.

Senor,
That's all that was, Shannon ribbing Mizerak. They were buds, but the funny part is SD even trying to get into the great Steve Mizerak's head. He knew he wouldn't gamble at that time, although the Miz did gamble previously.

These threads about who would beat who are the BEST and MOST fun, especially when knowledgeable people add their imput. I wish more pros would post on these type threads like Chris Bartram does.

I'll dispute the snide comment about SD not leaving the buffet line to play the Lion!:grin: Shannon has tons of gamble in him.

I really wish T.A.R. would feature Shannon Daulton in an all-around format. 9 Ball, banks and 1P against Chris Bartram would be great to watch. :)

A dream match up for me would be Shannon Daulton vs John Schmidt in a 9 ball and 1 pocket match up.
 
Who is in the HOF?

Thats my answer.....

KEN

I've tried nominating Shannon Daulton for the past 3 years over at Steve's 1 Pocket.org. Steve says that next year (2010) Shannon will be eligible.

Did you ever see them crazy shoppers who camp outside a store overnight in a sleeping bag to get in early? That's ME next year when Shannon is eligible for induction....I'm nominiating him early and candidating hard for him. :grin:

Steve Booth is a great guy and a tireless workhorse. But I'm also considering driving up to his house next year and walking back and forth in front of his house with a home-made sign reading "Shannon Daulton for the 1P.org H.O.F." :grin:
 
i dont give a shit about a tourney never have.
im talking about gambling for the money.
these guys have no chance with alex if they are in their prime or not.
and 14.1 ask john s about alex playing that game and i love johns 14.1 game.
no american could play alex no chance for money.

All four of these guys were gamblers, and good ones at that. And no question Alex was a great player for the dough. No telling when he will play again. He's hooked on poker right now. I know that you didn't know Cornbread, but if you locked all four of these guys in a room and they had to play until only one was standing, Red would have come out with the cash. And the other three guys might have trouble drawing their ball for a month.

Only Nick is old enough to remember Red in his prime and believe me, even when he was winning championships, he was in no hurry to match up with Red. No one was! Not Sigel, not Buddy, not Miz, NO ONE! The higher the bet, the better he played. And the more intimidating he became. I remember a young Johnny Archer thinking he could beat this old man out of some money playing Banks. Well, once the 55 year old Red got loosened up, it was the kid who tucked tail and quit. I was there. And Johnny played good.

Cornbread was cut from the same mold as you my friend, and he would bet just as high as you on your best day. You could not out gamble the man! I saw him play a 9-Ball match against another top player of his era and when it was hill-hill he was faced with a diagonal table length nine ball to win the match. He hit it in the pocket so hard it bounced up after it hit the pocket! He smiled BEFORE he shot it too. There was never anyone quite like Cornbread. That's why all of us still talk about him. You would have followed him around like a puppy dog, no disrespect intended. I'm certain you would have idolized him if you had known him. He was one of kind.

Just ask any old timer (my generation) about Cornbread. You'll hear more of the same. In an era full of great players, Jersey Red, Boston Shorty, NY Blackie, Kelly, Ervolino, Ambrose, Sigel, Hubbart, Marino, Wade Crane, Mataya, Hall, Reid, Allen, Varner, Florence, Hopkins and Rempe to name a few. I didn't include all the great tournament players like Martin, West, Mizerak, Butera and Margo. Red was the most feared money player, period! If you ever achieve his status then you've really done something.

The way Alex came back and beat Shane a few times in a row was the most impressive money shooting I've seen this decade. And Alex has been wiping up pretty good since he was a teenager. Alex and Corey on the road 10-12 years ago was the best road team of the last 20 years. Shannon was on the road at 13, playing men for money. And winning! He also never backed down from a bet. I'm going venture a guess that the great road team of Alex and Corey made a wide berth around Shannon Daulton 12 years ago. He was no one to mess with back then and everyone knew it. Even Parica in his prime was not going to play Shannon any Banks or One Hole.
 
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Senor,
That's all that was, Shannon ribbing Mizerak. They were buds, but the funny part is SD even trying to get into the great Steve Mizerak's head. He knew he wouldn't gamble at that time, although the Miz did gamble previously.

These threads about who would beat who are the BEST and MOST fun, especially when knowledgeable people add their imput. I wish more pros would post on these type threads like Chris Bartram does.

I'll dispute the snide comment about SD not leaving the buffet line to play the Lion!:grin: Shannon has tons of gamble in him.

I really wish T.A.R. would feature Shannon Daulton in an all-around format. 9 Ball, banks and 1P against Chris Bartram would be great to watch. :)

A dream match up for me would be Shannon Daulton vs John Schmidt in a 9 ball and 1 pocket match up.

you cant want me to play shannon all around can you?
you know i have no chance.
damn you said he could beat alex
when people say all around to me its
10 ball one pocket 8 ball banks 14.1 which i dont play
 
All four of these guys were gamblers, and good ones at that. And no question Alex was a great player for the dough. No telling when he will play again. He's hooked on poker right now. I know that you didn't know Cornbread, but if you locked all four of these guys in a room and they had to play until only one was standing, Red would have come out with the cash. And the other three guys might have trouble drawing their ball for a month.

Only Nick is old enough to remember Red in his prime and believe me, even when he was winning championships, he was in no hurry to match up with Red. No one was! Not Sigel, not Buddy, not Miz, NO ONE! The higher the bet, the better he played. And the more intimidating he became. I remember a young Johnny Archer thinking he could beat this old man out of some money playing Banks. Well, once the 55 year old Red got loosened up, it was the kid who tucked tail and quit. I was there. And Johnny played good.

Cornbread was cut from the same mold as you my friend, and he would bet just as high as you on your best day. You could not out gamble the man! I saw him play a 9-Ball match against another top player of his era and when it was hill-hill he was faced with a diagonal table length nine ball to win the match. He hit it in the pocket so hard it bounced up after it hit the pocket! He smiled BEFORE he shot it too. There was never anyone quite like Cornbread. That's why all of us still talk about him. You would have followed him around like a puppy dog, no disrespect intended. I'm certain you would have idolized him if you had known him. He was one of kind.

Just ask any old timer (my generation) about Cornbread. You'll hear more of the same. In an era full of great players, Jersey Red, Boston Shorty, NY Blackie, Ed Kelly, Ervolino, Richie Ambrose, Sigel, Hubbart, Marino, Wade Crane, Mataya, Hall, Reid, Varner, Florence, Allen, Hopkins and Rempe to name a few. I didn't include all the great tournament players like Martin, West, Mizerak, Butera and Margo. Red was the most feared money player, period! If you ever achieve his status then you've really done something.

The way Alex came back and beat Shane a few times in a row was the most impressive money shooting I've seen this decade. And Alex has been wiping up pretty good since he was a teenager. Alex and Corey on the road 10-12 years ago was the best road team of the last 20 years. Shannon was on the road at 13, playing men for money. And winning! He also never backed down from a bet. I'm going venture a guess that the great road team of Alex and Corey made a wide berth around Shannon Daulton 12 years ago. He was no one to mess with back then and everyone knew it. Even Parica in his prime was not going to play Shannon any Banks or One Hole.

I love you.
:grin::grin::grin:
 
I've tried nominating Shannon Daulton for the past 3 years over at Steve's 1 Pocket.org. Steve says that next year (2010) Shannon will be eligible.

Did you ever see them crazy shoppers who camp outside a store overnight in a sleeping bag to get in early? That's ME next year when Shannon is eligible for induction....I'm nominiating him early and candidating hard for him. :grin:

Steve Booth is a great guy and a tireless workhorse. But I'm also considering driving up to his house next year and walking back and forth in front of his house with a home-made sign reading "Shannon Daulton for the 1P.org H.O.F." :grin:

If he makes it in are you gonna make it to Derby for the dinner?
 
i dont know 14.1 and i mean theat.
who would win nick varner or john s?

In their respective primes, it's a toss up. I won't go into all the reasons why, because they both have their strengths. Either one could win on a given day. Mizerak was by far the best 14.1 player of the modern era. No one yet that I've seen could have handled him. Sigel is a close second. These are two guys who never played a bad match and made every inning count. They were both capable of running out the match at any time, and might never leave you a look at a ball all day. Ask Hopkins, Rempe or Varner about dueling with the Miz or Sigel. Forget about the Sigel we saw in the IPT matches. Barely a shadow of his old self.

There may have never been a player with a more powerful stroke than Miz. When he broke the balls in 14.1, the cue ball was like a buzz saw cutting through the pack. It just kept churning and churning until it cut it's way through. In his prime Sigel very simply never missed! In the early days of Accu-Stats rating system, Sigel's errors per 100 shots was half that of the next best players (like Buddy, Varner and Hopkins).
 
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