rank these players

you cant want me to play shannon all around can you?
you know i have no chance.
damn you said he could beat alex
when people say all around to me its
10 ball one pocket 8 ball banks 14.1 which i dont play

You're highly respected and regarded by many here Chris. You got major gamble and heart.

You can play 9 ball, 1p and banks good enough. You don't need to be wrangling for no weight!:grin:

And yes, I would like to see you match up with Shannon. He doesn't play 14.1 either, so that wouldn't be one of the games.

Shannon is busy running his own tour and is sometimes forgotten about when talk of the best all-around American players is bantered about. I got lots of confidence in his game, his heart and his wallet.

And yes Chris, I would love to see a T.A.R. match up of SD vs AP in 1P.
 
In their respective primes, it's a toss up. I won't go into all the reasons why, because they both have their strengths. Either one could win on a given day. Mizerak was by far the best 14.1 player of the modern era. No one yet that I've seen could have handled him. Sigel is a close second. These are two guys who never played a bad match and made every inning count. They were both capable of running out the match at any time, and might never leave you a look at a ball all day. Ask Hopkins, Rempe or Varner about dueling with the Miz or Sigel.

and alex beat john s for the money at 14.1
 
All four of these guys were gamblers, and good ones at that. And no question Alex was a great player for the dough. No telling when he will play again. He's hooked on poker right now. I know that you didn't know Cornbread, but if you locked all four of these guys in a room and they had to play until only one was standing, Red would have come out with the cash. And the other three guys might have trouble drawing their ball for a month.

Only Nick is old enough to remember Red in his prime and believe me, even when he was winning championships, he was in no hurry to match up with Red. No one was! Not Sigel, not Buddy, not Miz, NO ONE! The higher the bet, the better he played. And the more intimidating he became. I remember a young Johnny Archer thinking he could beat this old man out of some money playing Banks. Well, once the 55 year old Red got loosened up, it was the kid who tucked tail and quit. I was there. And Johnny played good.

Cornbread was cut from the same mold as you my friend, and he would bet just as high as you on your best day. You could not out gamble the man! I saw him play a 9-Ball match against another top player of his era and when it was hill-hill he was faced with a diagonal table length nine ball to win the match. He hit it in the pocket so hard it bounced up after it hit the pocket! He smiled BEFORE he shot it too. There was never anyone quite like Cornbread. That's why all of us still talk about him. You would have followed him around like a puppy dog, no disrespect intended. I'm certain you would have idolized him if you had known him. He was one of kind.

Just ask any old timer (my generation) about Cornbread. You'll hear more of the same. In an era full of great players, Jersey Red, Boston Shorty, NY Blackie, Ed Kelly, Ervolino, Richie Ambrose, Sigel, Hubbart, Marino, Wade Crane, Mataya, Hall, Reid, Allen, Varner, Florence, Hopkins and Rempe to name a few. I didn't include all the great tournament players like Martin, West, Mizerak, Butera and Margo. Red was the most feared money player, period! If you ever achieve his status then you've really done something.

The way Alex came back and beat Shane a few times in a row was the most impressive money shooting I've seen this decade. And Alex has been wiping up pretty good since he was a teenager. Alex and Corey on the road 10-12 years ago was the best road team of the last 20 years. Shannon was on the road at 13, playing men for money. And winning! He also never backed down from a bet. I'm going venture a guess that the great road team of Alex and Corey made a wide berth around Shannon Daulton 12 years ago. He was no one to mess with back then and everyone knew it. Even Parica in his prime was not going to play Shannon any Banks or One Hole.

you might not know this about alex cause you think red would out last him.
i played him 24 hours straight.
10 hour break then 30 hours straight 10 hour break
then i8 hours straight .
so lock him in a room with red alex would get that money.
red might tush hog it back but playing pool he has no chance to get that money.
 
and alex beat john s for the money at 14.1

Chris,
Every great player has beaten and been beaten by every other great player. Nobody has has an undefeated career. I don't know how to post a poll, but if there were a poll asking who would win a race to 1500 in 14.1 between John Schmidt and Alex Pagulayan, the numbers would favor JS bigtime.

When Alex won the U.S. Open and then World 9 Ball Championship, he was awesome. But then he cut so far back on his pool playing. Who knows what all he could have accomplished if he had kept more active?

Mika is not one of my favorite players but I do give him oodles of credit for running with what he has. He is on an incredible streak and his stock in pool is still rising. But if he had cut back like Alex did, we would never have known his capabilities.

Alex has so much talent and heart. He's a great player. But he needs to play more and re-focus on pool. Then maybe when people talk about him being all-universe, we'll be able to agree.

Every champion in this thread has had major victories. Let's not just remember some recent money matches and discount all the other exploits by the other great champions.
 
Chris,
Every great player has beaten and been beaten by every other great player. Nobody has has an undefeated career. I don't know how to post a poll, but if there were a poll asking who would win a race to 1500 in 14.1 between John Schmidt and Alex Pagulayan, the numbers would favor JS bigtime.

When Alex won the U.S. Open and then World 9 Ball Championship, he was awesome. But then he cut so far back on his pool playing. Who knows what all he could have accomplished if he had kept more active?

Mika is not one of my favorite players but I do give him oodles of credit for running with what he has. He is on an incredible streak and his stock in pool is still rising. But if he had cut back like Alex did, we would never have known his capabilities.

Alex has so much talent and heart. He's a great player. But he needs to play more and re-focus on pool. Then maybe when people talk about him being all-universe, we'll be able to agree.

Every champion in this thread has had major victories. Let's not just remember some recent money matches and discount all the other exploits by the other great champions.

they are good players.
but the players talked about in this thread alex is the best its not close.
 
in fairness to me

and alex beat john s for the money at 14.1

we played 4 long games.
i won 2 games by large margins.
he one 1 game 298-300 and another game 300 160.
we are tied 2 games a peice and i would like to play more.
he is awesome though and great at any game
 
we played 4 long games.
i won 2 games by large margins.
he one 1 game 298-300 and another game 300 160.
we are tied 2 games a peice and i would like to play more.
he is awesome though and great at any game

and like i said in the thread before i love your 14.1 game.
im just trying to say what a great all around player he is.
who would you bet on john s in this all around.
10 ball banks one pocket 8 ball 14.1 alex and its not close.
 
you might not know this about alex cause you think red would out last him.
i played him 24 hours straight.
10 hour break then 30 hours straight 10 hour break
then i8 hours straight .
so lock him in a room with red alex would get that money.
red might tush hog it back but playing pool he has no chance to get that money.

Chris I respect your opinion, but I'm not talking about tushing anyone. Red would and could find a bet that made his opponent uncomfortable. Yes, Red could play a long time too and he often did. But it was getting a man out of his comfort zone that made him so strong.

One more story about Red. The best 9-Ball player on the West Coast cruised across the United States beating everyone in his path. He got to Detroit and asked for Red. He had a pocket full of money and wanted to play a thousand a game (in the 70's!). They called Red at home and told him about this young gun who was looking for him. Red told them to ask him how much money he had on him. When told he had ten thousand, Red replied, "Tell him that's the bet, ten thou a game." The young gun hit the road. He could have found a backer for a few games but he got a little gun shy.

Red could do things like this. A young Alex would have had NO chance messing with Red. An older Alex (the one who beat Shane) might have. Hard to say. One thing for sure, if he had the opportunity to gamble with Red he never would have forgot that experience. It would have made him an even stronger player.
 
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they are good players.
but the players talked about in this thread alex is the best its not close.

Chris,
If we talked 24 hours straight.
10 hour break then 30 hours straight 10 hour break
then i8 hours straight...I think you would STILL say Alex is the best! You are one stubborn dude!:grin:
 
and alex beat john s for the money at 14.1

There is the loaded answer for the loaded question. lol.

How many times did they play? Once or twice at the DCC? Even if they played another time or two, that does not make alex the better of the 14.1 players.

For the record, I always root and bet on the filipinos. But plenty of knowledgeable people here (from Varners and Nicks generation) have given the nod to those two players for all around best of the group we are talking about.

As others have said, this is just fun conversation, none of these mathcups will ever happen. But if by a miracle they did, its a good thing we all like different sides. Otherwise there would be no action for us to bet on.
 
Chris,
If we talked 24 hours straight.
10 hour break then 30 hours straight 10 hour break
then i8 hours straight...I think you would STILL say Alex is the best! You are one stubborn dude!:grin:

he is not the best orcullo is.
but he is the best of the players in this thread.
and its not close.
 
There is the loaded answer for the loaded question. lol.

How many times did they play? Once or twice at the DCC? Even if they played another time or two, that does not make alex the better of the 14.1 players.

For the record, I always root and bet on the filipinos. But plenty of knowledgeable people here (from Varners and Nicks generation) have given the nod to those two players for all around best of the group we are talking about.

As others have said, this is just fun conversation, none of these mathcups will ever happen. But if by a miracle they did, its a good thing we all like different sides. Otherwise there would be no action for us to bet on.

what games are these guys the fav at?
banks thats it.
i have 4other games on my all around list.
 
we played 4 long games.
i won 2 games by large margins.
he one 1 game 298-300 and another game 300 160.
we are tied 2 games a peice and i would like to play more.
he is awesome though and great at any game

John,
I just figured out how to post a poll! It's you vs Alex in a race to 1,500 in 14.1.

I think you're going to win this handily.

If I had a John Schmidt campaign button, I'd wear it! :)

This has been a super great thread. I appreciate you and Chris's imput here. Chris is a good guy. He's just a little itsy-bitsy bias towards Alex. You and me ain't bias at all. :angel2: We'll do the right thing and vote for the best player.:wave3:
 
John,
I just figured out how to post a poll! It's you vs Alex in a race to 1,500 in 14.1.

I think you're going to win this handily.

If I had a John Schmidt campaign button, I'd wear it! :)

This has been a super great thread. I appreciate you and Chris's imput here. Chris is a good guy. He's just a little itsy-bitsy bias towards Alex. You and me ain't bias at all. :angel2: We'll do the right thing and vote for the best player.:wave3:

im not sure about your poll.
why dont you ask john s who backed him when he played alex the big money set?
 
You must be losing it Slim.... Umpteen posts in this thread and they aren't agreeing with you yet? When someone finally builds a time machine everyone can come back to this thread and find out you are right.
 
You must be losing it Slim.... Umpteen posts in this thread and they aren't agreeing with you yet? When someone finally builds a time machine everyone can come back to this thread and find out you are right.

the sawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
just afew who dont know much about pool. its ok
and jay h he knows pool but would not go for the young guy.
we all know if alex played these guys an all around its a joke.
 
It is pretty common knowledge that Shannon ain't gonna scare anyone playing 14.1 so......

IMO.... Alex and Nick would have been a great match in straights , I like Nick by a hair in his prime.

IMO.... Shannon is the best banker of the group

IMO.... SD, NV and Alex could trade sets back and forth when they were all playing. I never saw Red play but I have heard Berle talk about him and he could probably hang with all of them, especially for big cash.

IMO.... Alex is the best 9 and 10 ball player of the group. Although 8-10 years ago he didn't go out of his way to try to play Shannon. It was a short list of guys who would play SD 9-ball at that time. Alex and Varner's time just missed each other by a few years but I give Alex the edge.


I think Alex is one of the most gifted people to ever hold a cue. If he were to focus on pool without the lulls he has had over the years this may not even be a discussion. An in-stroke Alex is one of the top 3-5 players in the WORLD in my opinion, whatever that is worth.
 
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