Hypothetical Survey
- Thread starter Gammaray
- Start date
Come.
Let us reason together.
Lacking any documentation about the term or interest rate of the 'loan', we must conclude that the loan has no due date, that is, it is perpetual, and that the interest rate is zero.
I trust this will satisfy all concerned :grin::grin::grin:
Let us reason together.
Lacking any documentation about the term or interest rate of the 'loan', we must conclude that the loan has no due date, that is, it is perpetual, and that the interest rate is zero.
I trust this will satisfy all concerned :grin::grin::grin:
The Truth behind the Curtains
Around the end of 2008 or so, I was turned on to the pool streams that TAR and The Bigtruck Show were airing on the internet both free and PPV. I, being a pool player, really enjoyed this new pool streaming technology! I then found out that I could also chat in the chat rooms. I started talking in the chats to Bigtruck and others and was having a great time. As I would log in to the Bigtruck show, my screen name would appear in the chat and Ray Hansen would say "Gammaray in the house." I felt so welcomed and it was totally awesome! As time went on, I would then meet ****, as I had always heard Ray talk about how **** could make computers run so much faster! I called **** and paid him to tweak my PC.
A while after this, Ray had a stream airing and I was in the chat trying to help out giving people info and what ever else I could do to help Ray out! After the show was over, I received a phone call from ****, asking me if I wanted to be a part of the "Stream Team" and I said positively yes! Then I was introduced to skype. I would meet Bob and ****** for the first time, and what a fantastic job those guys were doing for the Bigtruck Show! Now everything was going so smooth and everyone was enjoying themselves as we were all putting in a lot of time and effort to make the show a success!
Here is where it all started- One night we (Bob, ******, ****, Ray, myself and two other people that were listening to the conversation with me via my loudspeakers) were all on Skype discussing certain issues. The Valley Forge event was coming up quickly and Ray wanted to go HD to make impressions of having the best looking stream out there. Bob said he did not know what all was involved in the technical department, so **** explained a little about it and Bob asked how much would be needed to do this and **** and Ray worked up a price and Bob said ok, I will send Ray a check for that amount. Bob reminded Ray about a previous conversation they had in regarding money Bob had sent to Ray, and said that this would be the same deal and that it usually takes 5 years for a business to see any profit. This was a quick decision that Bob had to make, due to the time frame of the Valley Forge event right around the corner. Everything at this point was still moving along smoothly! My understanding was that this was not a contribution, but a loan!
Now here is where things start to turn sour! Ray had a show to do in New Orleans at a place called The Big Easy. I had spoken to Ray and offered a helping hand to help him set up for the show. The night before, I must have eaten something bad, as I was having symptoms of what could have been a touch of food poisoning. The next day Ray comes into town and I called him and said how bad I was feeling, but would try my best to make it there and help him out. A few hours later, I arrived there and asked Ray what needs to be done. He really didn’t tell me a whole lot as a guy named Tony was with him to also help out. Bob had sent me $500 by pay pal for Robley, as he wanted to help Robley out. How many people would do that? By the way, Bob was going to send the $500 to Ray, but Ray said he had lost his pay pal account for some unknown reason! Anyways, I helped him with setting things up and Robley took a ride with me to go get a clamp from Home Depot to use in hanging up the overhead camera. After this, Bigtruck asked me to play some 9-ball on the bar box. I said sure, I asked jokingly what we were going to play for and he said lets just play for bragging rights. I said that will be fine and I beat him in a race to 9. He had seemed to have a different demeanor about him. I then smiled and said, aren’t you glad we didn’t bet anything! He then said we can play some on a big table and play races to 5 for $20. I believe after beating Ray, that he developed some sort of animosity towards me. The next day I drove over again to help out and he was streaming a match with Glenn Brathbury aka Nawlins Glenn. It was like I was a ghost or something and he never acknowledged me there. I was a little upset and called ****. **** said that was messed up and that he and ****** were going to pm him in the chat. Bob aka cmbwsu was out of town and was unable to be in the chat at that time. A little while later Ray asked me if I wanted to help commentate. I swallowed my feelings and sat next to him as he gave me instructions as to what to do. After it was over, I had left and went home still having mixed feelings. Now I am presuming that Ray had changed his feelings about me in which I could not understand why.
Sometime afterwards I received a call from Ray telling me that he did appreciate what I had done, but he was not looking for any partners in business and that I was not a part of the core team. He also said as for as Bob was concerned, that any contributions that were made were appreciated. He went on to say that Bob and ****** did not have to spend 10-12 hours working on flyers for his show, when he (Ray) could do them in 15 minutes. I was flabbergasted what Ray had just told me and further more I was not trying to be a business partner as I was just doing all of these things to help Ray and pool! I then called Bob and told him what Ray had said about the money being a contribution. Bob was like in disbelief and it took me a while to finally convince him what Ray had said. The whole team was in disbelief! From that moment everything started to go down hill. I also remember that before all of the crap started, Ray had wanted me to purchase him a mixer for the show. I had mentioned to him that I could get good prices on Berhinger mixers and he said that they were crap and wanted a $400 Heath and Allen. He said if you buy the mixer I will name it the Gamma-mixer. Well, I told him I would see what I could do, but at the moment I did not have the extra money. Not one time did Ray ever ask me if there was something he could do to show his appreciation, not that I was wanting anything or would have taken anything from him! There is more, but, I just wanted to explain what the real truth of behind the curtains was all about! I would also like to add that ****** and **** are good people, and they have a lot of time and other things involved with the Bigtruck show. I am sorry that it has come down to this, but I have to stand up for what’s right!
-Gamma
Around the end of 2008 or so, I was turned on to the pool streams that TAR and The Bigtruck Show were airing on the internet both free and PPV. I, being a pool player, really enjoyed this new pool streaming technology! I then found out that I could also chat in the chat rooms. I started talking in the chats to Bigtruck and others and was having a great time. As I would log in to the Bigtruck show, my screen name would appear in the chat and Ray Hansen would say "Gammaray in the house." I felt so welcomed and it was totally awesome! As time went on, I would then meet ****, as I had always heard Ray talk about how **** could make computers run so much faster! I called **** and paid him to tweak my PC.
A while after this, Ray had a stream airing and I was in the chat trying to help out giving people info and what ever else I could do to help Ray out! After the show was over, I received a phone call from ****, asking me if I wanted to be a part of the "Stream Team" and I said positively yes! Then I was introduced to skype. I would meet Bob and ****** for the first time, and what a fantastic job those guys were doing for the Bigtruck Show! Now everything was going so smooth and everyone was enjoying themselves as we were all putting in a lot of time and effort to make the show a success!
Here is where it all started- One night we (Bob, ******, ****, Ray, myself and two other people that were listening to the conversation with me via my loudspeakers) were all on Skype discussing certain issues. The Valley Forge event was coming up quickly and Ray wanted to go HD to make impressions of having the best looking stream out there. Bob said he did not know what all was involved in the technical department, so **** explained a little about it and Bob asked how much would be needed to do this and **** and Ray worked up a price and Bob said ok, I will send Ray a check for that amount. Bob reminded Ray about a previous conversation they had in regarding money Bob had sent to Ray, and said that this would be the same deal and that it usually takes 5 years for a business to see any profit. This was a quick decision that Bob had to make, due to the time frame of the Valley Forge event right around the corner. Everything at this point was still moving along smoothly! My understanding was that this was not a contribution, but a loan!
Now here is where things start to turn sour! Ray had a show to do in New Orleans at a place called The Big Easy. I had spoken to Ray and offered a helping hand to help him set up for the show. The night before, I must have eaten something bad, as I was having symptoms of what could have been a touch of food poisoning. The next day Ray comes into town and I called him and said how bad I was feeling, but would try my best to make it there and help him out. A few hours later, I arrived there and asked Ray what needs to be done. He really didn’t tell me a whole lot as a guy named Tony was with him to also help out. Bob had sent me $500 by pay pal for Robley, as he wanted to help Robley out. How many people would do that? By the way, Bob was going to send the $500 to Ray, but Ray said he had lost his pay pal account for some unknown reason! Anyways, I helped him with setting things up and Robley took a ride with me to go get a clamp from Home Depot to use in hanging up the overhead camera. After this, Bigtruck asked me to play some 9-ball on the bar box. I said sure, I asked jokingly what we were going to play for and he said lets just play for bragging rights. I said that will be fine and I beat him in a race to 9. He had seemed to have a different demeanor about him. I then smiled and said, aren’t you glad we didn’t bet anything! He then said we can play some on a big table and play races to 5 for $20. I believe after beating Ray, that he developed some sort of animosity towards me. The next day I drove over again to help out and he was streaming a match with Glenn Brathbury aka Nawlins Glenn. It was like I was a ghost or something and he never acknowledged me there. I was a little upset and called ****. **** said that was messed up and that he and ****** were going to pm him in the chat. Bob aka cmbwsu was out of town and was unable to be in the chat at that time. A little while later Ray asked me if I wanted to help commentate. I swallowed my feelings and sat next to him as he gave me instructions as to what to do. After it was over, I had left and went home still having mixed feelings. Now I am presuming that Ray had changed his feelings about me in which I could not understand why.
Sometime afterwards I received a call from Ray telling me that he did appreciate what I had done, but he was not looking for any partners in business and that I was not a part of the core team. He also said as for as Bob was concerned, that any contributions that were made were appreciated. He went on to say that Bob and ****** did not have to spend 10-12 hours working on flyers for his show, when he (Ray) could do them in 15 minutes. I was flabbergasted what Ray had just told me and further more I was not trying to be a business partner as I was just doing all of these things to help Ray and pool! I then called Bob and told him what Ray had said about the money being a contribution. Bob was like in disbelief and it took me a while to finally convince him what Ray had said. The whole team was in disbelief! From that moment everything started to go down hill. I also remember that before all of the crap started, Ray had wanted me to purchase him a mixer for the show. I had mentioned to him that I could get good prices on Berhinger mixers and he said that they were crap and wanted a $400 Heath and Allen. He said if you buy the mixer I will name it the Gamma-mixer. Well, I told him I would see what I could do, but at the moment I did not have the extra money. Not one time did Ray ever ask me if there was something he could do to show his appreciation, not that I was wanting anything or would have taken anything from him! There is more, but, I just wanted to explain what the real truth of behind the curtains was all about! I would also like to add that ****** and **** are good people, and they have a lot of time and other things involved with the Bigtruck show. I am sorry that it has come down to this, but I have to stand up for what’s right!
-Gamma
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I am trying to be completely objective here and all I am taking from your comments above is that you really didn't hear anything that supports whether a loan was made, just that it was your understanding there was a loan based on a conversation you heard where Bob reminded Ray that this would be the same deal as the last money. And then they acknowledged that it usually takes 5 years for a business to make a profit. I don't believe that based just on this alone, there is any real evidence of a loan being made, however, it might be worthwhile to get some clarification on what was meant regarding the comments about the 'same deal' and 'profits in five years'.
The rest of your commentary about being treated like a ghost when you showed up to help out, then your feeling like Ray developed animosity toward you over you winning a race to 9 against him, and the "gamma-mixer" discussion, all, to my mind, seem petty and not particularly relevant to the main issue.
Everyone agrees that Ray received a good chunk of money from Bob. I think that the crux of the matter is whether there was any AGREED UPON expectation for repayment of that money.
Did Sharken or Upstate Al hear anything regarding a loan?
Best,
Brian kc
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So you started your little journey with Ray at the end of 2008, then sometime later you had some more encounters, then you had a phone conversation, at which time Ray said he would pay the money back when his business see a profit, which would be about 5 years......
Let's count boys and girls....
2008 (1 year)
2009 (2 years)
2010 (3 years)
2011 (4 years)
2012 (5 years)
Please revive your post and whining at the end of 2012 or later.
This whole situation needs a tahoe, women abuse, and wet balls imo.
Ok. Question.
Was it one lump payment of around 8k, or was it as Ray described in his thread that it was 2300 plus a later 5200.
If it was indeed one check for around 8k, then there should be a copy of the canceled check that would directly contradict the other two figures.
And if it was 2 different occasions, and not cash, the check/s are evidence of a transaction.
Whether a determination can be made on what agreement truly transpired, is probably up to the courts.
I'm quoting myself here. I want to add after reading Gammaray's post the following thing that will happen:
YOU will become the fool. You infact have become the fool. I just read your post explaining what happened, and it sounded like you were a 7th grade girl arguing with another 7th grade girl that a boy likes you more than he likes the other girl. I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here. I'm literally sitting here shaking my head at this crap.
Advice for those who ever get stiffed, cheated, betrayed, lied to, etc: DONT TELL ANYONE. It will make you look like a fool. People will even think YOUR DESERVED it. You will come off looking like a fool.
Instead, keep it to yourself. Learn why it happened. Make sure this new knowledge prevents it from happening it to you again. Use it for positive.
Are you for real? Do you really reside on Earth? With your statements I see now why you used to be rich!
IMO- I really did not want to reply to your comments, but I just cant help myself- Looking at your avatar- You must live in the San Fransico area! How is that for whining!:grin:
I would ask a lawyer if I could win a judgement to get the equipment back with the 3 witnesses and no paperwork. If not, saying derogatory things about him even if they are true may get you sued and cost a lot more. I think if the witnesses won't hold up you will be best suited to wait and pray that he makes a real go of it {your initial hope to begin with} and then is remorseful and gives you your money back. Hope it all works out for you, and for the other guy.
Gamma - to be fair, you didn't lend the money, so don't take it personal at all what he's saying.
This really is a good point, iusedtoberich. I lent money to someone in Feb and ironically, I feel like the fool, just as you stated. I didn't quite realize that til your post - thanks for speaking up... gives me some perspective.
i'd kick myself for being so stupid. you don't loan out large sums of money with nothing but a handshake agreement.
i feel for you but i almost think you had this coming. do whatever you think you have to get your dough back. it doesn't sound like a huge deal to you though. anyone that on a whim loans out 8k probably isn't in a financial bind anyway
i need collateral to loan out a hundred
iusedtoberich, not everyone is a seasoned gambler/businessman
As a matter of fact, most seasoned gamblers/businessmen were at one time, suckers, who had to learn the hard way, who then came away with the knowledge of how to do business to safeguard their interests.
Is that to say that no one can learn, or is capable of learning from others mistakes and misfortunes? Surely you must know some people who have made informed decisions, based on what they saw going on around them, both in and out of the pool world.
If someone doesn't have a reputation of stiffing, cheating or betraying, etc etc, and someone who is trusting gets taken advantage of, you could hardly call them a fool. Naive maybe, but certainly not a fool.
If the person DOES have a reputation of stiffing, cheating, or betraying etc etc, and it is well known, THEN, if someone ignores all the warning signs because they think it won't happen to them, and then they get taken advantage of because they never took the appropriate precautions, THEN you can call them a fool and say they deserved it.
As far as i know, Ray doesn't have a rep of ripping people off left and right for large dollar amounts, and this is the first i think anyone has ever heard allegations like this made against him.
If someone venting about a possible deal gone wrong gets one person to maybe rethink the way they go about business, or to maybe take some precautions where they otherwise might not have, so that they don't suffer the same potential fate, is it really that foolish?
Personally, i give everyone a free pass on breaking their "get-taken-advantage-of" cherry.
After that, you can lay the blame on them if they keep wanting to put themselves in that position.
As a matter of fact, most seasoned gamblers/businessmen were at one time, suckers, who had to learn the hard way, who then came away with the knowledge of how to do business to safeguard their interests.
Is that to say that no one can learn, or is capable of learning from others mistakes and misfortunes? Surely you must know some people who have made informed decisions, based on what they saw going on around them, both in and out of the pool world.
If someone doesn't have a reputation of stiffing, cheating or betraying, etc etc, and someone who is trusting gets taken advantage of, you could hardly call them a fool. Naive maybe, but certainly not a fool.
If the person DOES have a reputation of stiffing, cheating, or betraying etc etc, and it is well known, THEN, if someone ignores all the warning signs because they think it won't happen to them, and then they get taken advantage of because they never took the appropriate precautions, THEN you can call them a fool and say they deserved it.
As far as i know, Ray doesn't have a rep of ripping people off left and right for large dollar amounts, and this is the first i think anyone has ever heard allegations like this made against him.
If someone venting about a possible deal gone wrong gets one person to maybe rethink the way they go about business, or to maybe take some precautions where they otherwise might not have, so that they don't suffer the same potential fate, is it really that foolish?
Personally, i give everyone a free pass on breaking their "get-taken-advantage-of" cherry.
After that, you can lay the blame on them if they keep wanting to put themselves in that position.
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Which is exactly why I'm at a loss as to why Gamma has made themselves the spokesperson for Bob's side of things. :scratchhead:
I like Bob but I don't particularly care for Ray. I'm not letting my personal feelings about these two guys cloud my judgement on this particular issue. I will say that I find Bob's silence and Gamma's carrying on about it rather off putting.
Gamma posted this to see what others on here have to say about the situation so here is my view point.
A. Gamma it wasn't your money, not your dog in the fight, stay out of it and let Bob speak for himself.
B. I would not accept the kind of money that Ray accepted without knowing explicitly what it was meant to be - a donation or a loan. Once I knew what it was, I would get it in writing before accepting.
C. If Bob (not gamma, but Bob) thinks the money was a loan, then shame on him for not getting it in writing.
D. If Ray knows it was a loan (in his heart of hearts, knows) then shame on him for taking advantage of someone being kind enough to help him.
First time, shame on you. Second time, shame on me. :wink:
Without a doubt, this is the most intelligent post I have read in a month. Greenie to you.
i can't help but think whoever lends that kind of cheddar out without some sort of written contract is too well off for their own good and or doesn't work hard enough for their dough.
anyone that sweats for their money keeps a way tighter grip on it than this.
this is a textbook example of how not to handle money.
i've actually got a check from the crown prince of nigeria for 20k. if you'll cash it for me i'll let you have half. i just don't feel like going to the bank!!!!!!!!!LOL
anyone that sweats for their money keeps a way tighter grip on it than this.
this is a textbook example of how not to handle money.
i've actually got a check from the crown prince of nigeria for 20k. if you'll cash it for me i'll let you have half. i just don't feel like going to the bank!!!!!!!!!LOL