This is right on. Mark shouldn't have done that.
Post dated checks for final 8 at Master's
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
This is right on. Mark shouldn't have done that.
??????????????
I am just wondering at what point did it become AZ's responsibility to get these players paid or to hang Barry. The only people who can complain are the top 8. However, I don't hear a word from them. Do you know why? Let me tell you why, because they are going to get paid.
Instead of a thread congratulating Mike Davis on his outstanding play we have to be the f..cking pool police and tell the world what is wrong with our game. It becomes painful after awhile to watch everyone attack easy targets. Barry took a shot at creating something special. He now has to reach into his pocket and pay for it. It seems Johnny and his group sat down with Barry and worked out a deal. Johnny's press release is on AZ and it should satisfy everyone involved. If at some point Barry goes back on the deal Johnny and the ABP will deal with it.
FYI - it isn't the pro's or the promoters that keep pool down. It is the nitty people that play this game and won't part with a f--cking nickel. A sponsor is advertising to the fans not the pros. If the fans won't spend a nickel than the advertise won't waste their money. I've done many things in my life and met all kinds of people and you just can't find cheaper people than you find in a pool room.
Problem is if most pool fan's opened their wallets GW would start rubbing his eyes.
I am just wondering at what point did it become AZ's responsibility to get these players paid or to hang Barry. The only people who can complain are the top 8. However, I don't hear a word from them. Do you know why? Let me tell you why, because they are going to get paid.
Instead of a thread congratulating Mike Davis on his outstanding play we have to be the f..cking pool police and tell the world what is wrong with our game. It becomes painful after awhile to watch everyone attack easy targets. Barry took a shot at creating something special. He now has to reach into his pocket and pay for it. It seems Johnny and his group sat down with Barry and worked out a deal. Johnny's press release is on AZ and it should satisfy everyone involved. If at some point Barry goes back on the deal Johnny and the ABP will deal with it.
FYI - it isn't the pro's or the promoters that keep pool down. It is the nitty people that play this game and won't part with a f--cking nickel. A sponsor is advertising to the fans not the pros. If the fans won't spend a nickel than the advertise won't waste their money. I've done many things in my life and met all kinds of people and you just can't find cheaper people than you find in a pool room.
Problem is if most pool fan's opened their wallets GW would start rubbing his eyes.
Not even close... 57 players... 55k in prize money... I don't think you would personally would stand good for the debt in a month...
Barry IS PAYING them.. Post dated checks or not he is reaching into his own pocket.. The players know exactly when the money is good... They won't have to chase him down after he has a good event for the green owed them.
The top 8 eight finisher I talked to at QMasters after the finals was not thrilled but he wasn't up in arms over it either. I find that very humorous based on the monkeys slinging poo from the AZrail.
Basically the said player was hopeful for the Masters event making it into the future and understood that this was money out of Barry's pocket.
The US is in major danger of losing pro pool. Another staple event on US soil is a godsend. In addition to lowering the fees next year Barry stated that he WILL be working with the World sanctioning body to make this a World points event so that they will not step on him with the World 8ball event like they did this year.
When Barry originally released the dates for the Masters at the Open there was a thread about what was wrong with pool and the politics of owning the game was mentioned. I looked on the WPA website and the World 8ball event was NOT showing to be a conflict.
If you think for a second that WPA scheduling (which is appearing to be done with intent) won't hurt a field and resultantly the prize fund lets see how the Ultimate 10ball works out this year since it is situated between 2 world points events.
I have heard personally out of the mouth of 1 world champion that while they would like to attend the 10Ball event in April the travel involved would likely cause fatigue and a possible bad showing in 2 events so instead of risking the world points they will lay over across the pond waiting on Beijing......
Green to you sir! Good thing AZ is free or half the posters would dry up.... LOL
Purdman
Banned
It's just to easy to kick a man when he's down. Thanks for giving another prospective to the situation GMAC. I have been in the exact situation with Barry. 13 grand, 2 checks to be cashed two weeks apart. Same reason exactly, waiting for the vendors to pay. Both checks cleared and Barry's word was good. I didn't tell anybody, I guess that's why nobody complained about it.
Good on you GMAC
Don
keith@greatbilliards
Registered
Wouldn't it be great if maybe all these groups (BCApl, APA, and all the smaller tours) came together and paid for air time on ESPN and started to show more of these events for the fans? Maybe then players in the APA might know the big names in pool and this could be the start of getting big name sponsors. You can't get big name sponsors if there is no place to showcase their product.
Imagine if you had on ESPN a table at the start of a big pool event with a huge pile of cash on it just like at the pokers events. People will watch when they see cash.
There are too many fragmented groups and tours. Unity can only help this sports. And yes this also applies to the players. They need to get out there and promote the sport. They should go and visit rooms that are having tournaments and watch, talk and help the local players. This goes a long way.
Imagine if you had on ESPN a table at the start of a big pool event with a huge pile of cash on it just like at the pokers events. People will watch when they see cash.
There are too many fragmented groups and tours. Unity can only help this sports. And yes this also applies to the players. They need to get out there and promote the sport. They should go and visit rooms that are having tournaments and watch, talk and help the local players. This goes a long way.
LOL. Love the internet.
You are right. Because I wouldn't do an event I couldn't pay for in the first place.
Edit: Forget it. Players don't care so I won't.
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A very understandable response.
Sadly, that's going to be the general consensus, and the standard response, so nothing will change.
(Not a knock on you, JCIN. I get where you're coming from, completely.)
You should. It's the basis of your business.
Do you disagree that Mark turned this in to a Mark vs. Barry thing by weighing in on this thread?
Tournament payouts
Mike,
Please go back and read my posts. Not once did I bash BB. I have said this non-payment of prize money has got to stop. If you consider that bashing, I respectfully disagree.
My position is constant, it makes no difference who is the promoter. They are hurting everyone in the industry if payment is not prompt.
You seem to think this is between BB and Mark Griffin. You are so wrong. Where was your voice on the USPPA (Annigoni) fiasco thread?
YOU are the one turning this into a bashing thread.
BTW- to correct a couple of items. CSI was paying out somewhere around $65,000 to $70,000 between February 21-27. Ithink that qualifies as 'doing something'.
I am currently in Los Angeles and will be the office tomorrow. I encourage anyone who really wants to understand what I am saying to pick up the phone and call me. I will respond more fully when I get to a computer.
There are a coupje of posters who just do not understand a few of the facts- at least as I see them
In closing- as said before. I wish (for pool's sake) that Annigini and BB had paid as they said they would. There is no rejoicing from me. After all - these actions have made it harder for everybody in the industry.
BTW- anytime someone wants to see the extent of what we do, you are welcome to stop by our office at any time. I think most would be in for a HUGE surprise.
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI
Mike,
Please go back and read my posts. Not once did I bash BB. I have said this non-payment of prize money has got to stop. If you consider that bashing, I respectfully disagree.
My position is constant, it makes no difference who is the promoter. They are hurting everyone in the industry if payment is not prompt.
You seem to think this is between BB and Mark Griffin. You are so wrong. Where was your voice on the USPPA (Annigoni) fiasco thread?
YOU are the one turning this into a bashing thread.
BTW- to correct a couple of items. CSI was paying out somewhere around $65,000 to $70,000 between February 21-27. Ithink that qualifies as 'doing something'.
I am currently in Los Angeles and will be the office tomorrow. I encourage anyone who really wants to understand what I am saying to pick up the phone and call me. I will respond more fully when I get to a computer.
There are a coupje of posters who just do not understand a few of the facts- at least as I see them
In closing- as said before. I wish (for pool's sake) that Annigini and BB had paid as they said they would. There is no rejoicing from me. After all - these actions have made it harder for everybody in the industry.
BTW- anytime someone wants to see the extent of what we do, you are welcome to stop by our office at any time. I think most would be in for a HUGE surprise.
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI
Mark has never wished for any promoter's failure. If you pay attention actually he is quite the opposite and have helped OTHER promoters out of goodness of his heart! Everyday and night someone calls him on his cell phone asking for advice or just what his thoughts are. I have never seen him turn anyone away because they are his potential competitor seeking his advice. To the contrary, he's been awakened from sleep and ate cold meal because he's so eager to help other people in the industry. He drops everything to help them as much as he can.
As a matter of fact, there was $5,000 added tournament that would had conflicted with the Masters AND IT WAS MARK GRIFFIN WHO CALLED THE POOL ROOM AND ADVISED THEM TO CHANGE THE DATE!!! So the players have more events to go and BOTH PROMOTERS don't get hurt!!! Does this sound like someone just waiting for BB to fail?
Some people thought it was distasteful of me to quote a press release given by BB...
Why? They were his own words! Here is the complete press release http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=8478 I never said anything bad about the promoter or the event! I love US Open 9 Ball and Behrman has made it into the prestigious event that is today all on his own! No one is denying that. I even stuck up for this event when someone started a thread with a topic "Masters 10-Ball - FLOP or NOT ??" http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=222429 I said it NOT a flop and low attendance was due to event being new and to slow economy. I even wished them success for the event.
I guess people are getting a bad taste in their mouth about me saying players should get paid on time and it should be a standard practice. I am not going to apologize for that statement and that is not bad mouthing anyone! Pool players have bills to pay just like you and me and they have to get paid from events in timely manner to make a living. I don't know how many of you would work and not expect to get paid on time, or is it only me who knows people who barely make month to month... I hate to say this but I'm sure there were few players who got in the money and were relieved knowing they had some money coming to get caught up on their bills...
I used to joke about how pool is just an expensive hobby - exception to maybe 10% of top players in the world - but I guess it is what it is!
S.G.
I wasn't kidding. I love the internet.
Yes I disagree. But I am done talking about it. Greg had a good point. The guys who are affected by it don't seem to care, so why should anyone else worry about it. Anyone in the industry who talks about it seems to be seen as anti-Barry or will be painted that way by some, its a no win situation.
So SNAFU, drive on.
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mlalum
Banned
I think the point is not whether you're bashing or not but why you and your group feel a need to participate in a thread that is bashing a direct competitor. It looks unseamly even if you don't see why. And most CEOs just don't do it.
Tournament payouts
Mike,
First of all - everybody just needs to step back and examine one thing. What exactly are BB and mark Griffin supposed to be competitors in?
My main business is running nationsl leagues and national tournaments Does BB run leagues? The answer is no - except for leagues in his room. He actually runs BCAPL leagues in his room. And we have had events where the national office added money.
The 'only' area that anyone could say we are competitors is the US Open 9-ball that BB has and that I do the US Open 10-ball.
I also have plans on doing several other US Open titles. Does that make us even more competitors?
The problem is too many critics want to think that BB and me are enemies. We are not (from my viewpoint) - just let the facts tell the story.
I wish BB could have made the masters work - and I hope he makes it work next year. But any promoter that does not pay the players will not win praise from me. Whys does everyone have such a hard time understanding this simple principal?
I am glad this thread is winding down - it is not good for pool.
But one last statement. I did the Ill fated Qlympics in louisville in october of 2007. I LOST $80,000 and i paid on the spot. Checks were written and a local bank cashed them. Was I happy about it? Not really, but I was the one that opened my mouth and promised certain things.
I firmly believe all a person has is their word.
And none of this is bashing. It is what it is. BTW, have any of the critics really looked at what occurred? This was a $25,000 added event. If my math is correct (from jay Helfert list on the payouts), I believe there is $41,000 owed to the top 8 players! What does that tell you?
Once again, anyone that wants to talk anymore can call me. I am real easy to find. I answer my phone and will not duck. 702-719-7665. Markg@playcsipool.com.
Mark griffin, CEO
CSI
(PS - phone number was originally wrong. Caused by using ipad and not a computer-lol)
Mike,
First of all - everybody just needs to step back and examine one thing. What exactly are BB and mark Griffin supposed to be competitors in?
My main business is running nationsl leagues and national tournaments Does BB run leagues? The answer is no - except for leagues in his room. He actually runs BCAPL leagues in his room. And we have had events where the national office added money.
The 'only' area that anyone could say we are competitors is the US Open 9-ball that BB has and that I do the US Open 10-ball.
I also have plans on doing several other US Open titles. Does that make us even more competitors?
The problem is too many critics want to think that BB and me are enemies. We are not (from my viewpoint) - just let the facts tell the story.
I wish BB could have made the masters work - and I hope he makes it work next year. But any promoter that does not pay the players will not win praise from me. Whys does everyone have such a hard time understanding this simple principal?
I am glad this thread is winding down - it is not good for pool.
But one last statement. I did the Ill fated Qlympics in louisville in october of 2007. I LOST $80,000 and i paid on the spot. Checks were written and a local bank cashed them. Was I happy about it? Not really, but I was the one that opened my mouth and promised certain things.
I firmly believe all a person has is their word.
And none of this is bashing. It is what it is. BTW, have any of the critics really looked at what occurred? This was a $25,000 added event. If my math is correct (from jay Helfert list on the payouts), I believe there is $41,000 owed to the top 8 players! What does that tell you?
Once again, anyone that wants to talk anymore can call me. I am real easy to find. I answer my phone and will not duck. 702-719-7665. Markg@playcsipool.com.
Mark griffin, CEO
CSI
(PS - phone number was originally wrong. Caused by using ipad and not a computer-lol)
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mlalum
Banned
Mark. What it tells me is you're criticizing a competitor on a public forum. IMHO. We agree to disagree. I don't have a problem with disagreement. But you're right it's not good for pool. That too is the point. It means absolutely nothing if mlalum criticizes someone in pool on a forum because mlalm is a nobody in pool. But when one of the most important men and his company obviously do it well that's quite a bit different.
Looking forward to your U.S. Open 1-Pocket and 10-ball event. It should be a fantastic week in Vegas.
I believe MG has the right to participate in any thread he feels like.
So whats the big deal, we criticize everyone and everything on this board. Well, some people do anyway.
Malum, when you have achieved what MG and his group have in the pool world, come back and have an opinion, OK.
Its guys like you that have to fk with everyone on this board and chase them off. Constantly, ya know, its so f/n old.
Then when Mark decides its not worth his while to post here, what do we have, one less valuable poster.
Lamlun, I don't think I've ever read a post from you that has been in a positive note, thats all you know is negative, right?
So whats the big deal, we criticize everyone and everything on this board. Well, some people do anyway.
Malum, when you have achieved what MG and his group have in the pool world, come back and have an opinion, OK.
Its guys like you that have to fk with everyone on this board and chase them off. Constantly, ya know, its so f/n old.
Then when Mark decides its not worth his while to post here, what do we have, one less valuable poster.
Lamlun, I don't think I've ever read a post from you that has been in a positive note, thats all you know is negative, right?
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I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you for speaking the truth.
We should all pray for people who are this unhappy in their personal lives. Healthy people don't hurt people. Hurt people hurt people.
I hope Mark Griffin continues to post and is able to recognize that sometimes unhappy people crave attention in the form of antagonizing, bullying and/or causing anger and hurt. Mark Griffin is one of the good guys, and we need more people just like him on AzBilliards.