Ralf Forfeits!???

[FranCrimi]

Plus million to every comment that said that Corey shouldn't have been asked.

In fact, I think Corey should have answered with: "you shouldn't ask me."

Good point, but if Corey said that alone, it could have backfired on him. When the TD asked Corey to make the decision, it meant that the TD not only was willing to bend the rules, but didn't want to take responsibility. So, if Corey threw it back to the TD, the TD was liable to make the wrong decision and say that the match should be played.

I don't know exactly what Corey's words were but maybe he should have said something like: "You shouldn't be asking me, but since you did, the answer is that I will play by the rules."

 

[jay helfert]

It's good to have rules to abide by, and absolutely necessary in running any event or sports contest. That said, there can always be extenuating circumstances that require the use of good judgement. Being delayed in traffic is not one of them, so it's hard for me to sympathize with Ralf here. Not that he's asking anyway.

A true emergency medical situation might be an extenuating situation that would require the use of good judgement to be made. Once again this is not without precedence in professional sports. I can think of at least one case where I delayed a scheduled match because one of the players was undergoing emergency dialysis. I was in contact with someone who accompanied him to the clinic and told him that we would delay the match until that evening. This way it would not affect the scheduling of the tournament or the round that needed to be completed. If the player in question was either too weak to play at that time, or unable to play for whatever reason I would have to forfeit him. They agreed and he showed up to play his match in a weakened condition. He lost the match but gained the respect of all who were aware of his situation, INCLUDING his oppenent.

I learned a good lesson a long time ago. It's the exception that proves the rule! In life there will always be exceptional situations that require good judgement and may allow for some bending of the rules. It happens in courtrooms every day. We are human beings, not robots, and thus fallible. A good judge (or TD) will take everything into account before making a ruling. Good judgement is a prerequisite for this job. If you don't agree with me that is fine. I will continue to operate using my own moral compass. Thanks for listening.

 

[duckie]

If you start bending the rules, when do you stop and if you bend one rule, why not just bend a few more while your at it.

I mean just because my shirt touches a ball and does not have any affect on on the ball placement, just bend the rule.

Really, is a double hit that bad, just bend the rule.

So what if a ball doesn't touch a rail in a missed shot, just bend the rule.

Get my drift.

Once you bend one rule, the box is opened for others make arguements for bending other rules.

Rule benders are not really doing anyone a favor and those exepcting the rules to be bent don't get it either.

I even hate seeing the law bent for some and not for others.

In the example Jay provided above, I hate to say it, unless there was a rule for delay of game for good cause, the example was set that the rules really do not need to be followed. Jay's intentions were good and all that, but, rules are rules.

Wanting to do good for one person is not always the right thing to do for everybody that is involved in that activity.

 

[JoeyA]

Very nice post, JoeyA.

I agree Corey should not had been asked to make a decision. This was a 'special' situation TD had never faced or even expected and there wasn't exactly had a lot of time to evaluate calmy at the same time feeling bad and worrying about Ralf.

It will be written into CSI's policy now that any player not at the match table by their pre assigned time will forfeit their match. No special circumstance will be subject for reassignment.

I like to further add please, do not fault or blame Corey - he did nothing wrong or out of line.

S.G.

Thanks Sunny. I agree Corey did nothing wrong or out of line. Classy for CSI to step up to the plate and explain your position on Corey and your new perspective on this situation.

When rules aren't followed to the letter, it can put tournament directors into difficult situations like this one. I sympathize with the TD facing a new situation as I've said Ralf is one of my favorite players but THE SUN SHINES ON EVERYONE.

CSI continues to lead the way with improving the pool world. Look forward to more advancements. Now, if we can talk about these Senior Events.....

 

[JoeyA]

Good point, but if Corey said that alone, it could have backfired on him. When the TD asked Corey to make the decision, it meant that the TD not only was willing to bend the rules, but didn't want to take responsibility. So, if Corey threw it back to the TD, the TD was liable to make the wrong decision and say that the match should be played.

I don't know exactly what Corey's words were but maybe he should have said something like: "You shouldn't be asking me, but since you did, the answer is that I will play by the rules."

Can I get you telephone number? I like your answer for Corey best. I may need a good answer for a TD one day.

JoeyA

 

[vagabond]

.......A true emergency medical situation might be an extenuating situation that would require the use of good judgement to be made. .........
.

When u extend that noble gesture to APA 3 also it will then be applauded.Many people are opposed to that because many on the board had bad experiences with some tournament directors who made exceptions to some privileged few.


PS:In my life I learned that every rule has an exception but that exception has to be defined in clear language.
I also learned that 'Time and Tide wait for none'.

 

[Johnnyt]

This is what happened. The cop had a bet on Corey. Cop dragged his/her feet on paperwork=cop won bet.. Johnnyt

 

[John Brumback]

Thanks Sunny. I agree Corey did nothing wrong or out of line. Classy for CSI to step up to the plate and explain your position on Corey and your new perspective on this situation.

When rules aren't followed to the letter, it can put tournament directors into difficult situations like this one. I sympathize with the TD facing a new situation as I've said Ralf is one of my favorite players but THE SUN SHINES ON EVERYONE.

CSI continues to lead the way with improving the pool world. Look forward to more advancements. Now, if we can talk about these Senior Events.....

Way to go CSI!! Simple really. Rules a rule.No exceptions period.
Ralph just got a bad roll.he took a chance and It cost him a chance at beating Corey.Like I said before..bet he stays close next time.And someone said Ralph doesn't gamble. John B.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

I replied that I am not ready to play right now but I would be in an hour (needed time for my pre-match routine).

The TD responds that I am playing right now and if I don't like it, I will be forfeited. WOW! (Opponent was from the same town as the TD!?)

i had this same situation in a major event. but, the delay was caused by the tournament director delaying the prior match on my scheduled table.

I go up to the score table and report my win and am told I am up IMMEDIATELY on table 7! I say " I need time to eat and my pre-match routine" i am told " no time up now" I complained it was not my fault the director delayed the prior match on my table and I should not be penalized for it. The directors assistant was not budging "play or be forfeited" i did not see the director or promoter to elevate my complaint and just left UPSET.

Fuming that some PRO"S get matches delayed and I cant get 30 minutes to eat and regroup! THATS UNFAIR!!!!

KD

 

[jay helfert]

If you start bending the rules, when do you stop and if you bend one rule, why not just bend a few more while your at it.

I mean just because my shirt touches a ball and does not have any affect on on the ball placement, just bend the rule.

Really, is a double hit that bad, just bend the rule.

So what if a ball doesn't touch a rail in a missed shot, just bend the rule.

Get my drift.

Once you bend one rule, the box is opened for others make arguements for bending other rules.

Rule benders are not really doing anyone a favor and those exepcting the rules to be bent don't get it either.

I even hate seeing the law bent for some and not for others.

In the example Jay provided above, I hate to say it, unless there was a rule for delay of game for good cause, the example was set that the rules really do not need to be followed. Jay's intentions were good and all that, but, rules are rules.

Wanting to do good for one person is not always the right thing to do for everybody that is involved in that activity.

Actually they now are "bending" the rules on "All Ball Fouls" in many European and Asian events. No longer is "incidental" touching of a ball by your hair or shirt a foul. It must be contact by your hand, the cue or a bridge that moves a ball to be considered a foul.

But please don't get me started on cue ball fouls only. It's a bad rule and it needs to be changed in this country, the sooner the better. It's far easier to call fouls on all balls then it is to make calls with cue ball fouls only. We have played all ball fouls forever in Straight Pool and that is the way pool should be played. If you move a ball, you foul. PERIOD!

The USA needs to get in line with the rest of the world, and make it foul on all balls. No more of this nit picky stuff when a guy is jacked up over a ball and moves it when he shoots. Or when using a bridge a ball is moved. These are all fouls and should be called as such. This is currently not the case in most American events.

 

[Snapshot9]

Comments

That is all well and fine Jay, except when you are 5'7" and on a big table, and can not reach a shot, or even use the bridge without touching something. One of the reasons I quit playing on big tables about 7-8 years ago, and I grew up on big tables.

 

[jay helfert]

That is all well and fine Jay, except when you are 5'7" and on a big table, and can not reach a shot, or even use the bridge without touching something. One of the reasons I quit playing on big tables about 7-8 years ago, and I grew up on big tables.

Scott, I'm the same height as you, 5'7", and I can hear where you're coming from. I used to take off one shoe to stand on when playing for money, just to keep one foot "on the floor."

Nowadays, all the little guys are using cue extensions, and with the new style bridges I truly feel there is no reason to foul unless you're being careless.

 

[the420trooper]

Actually they now are "bending" the rules on "All Ball Fouls" in many European and Asian events. No longer is "incidental" touching of a ball by your hair or shirt a foul. It must be contact by your hand, the cue or a bridge that moves a ball to be considered a foul.

But please don't get me started on cue ball fouls only. It's a bad rule.

That's a rule that needs to be bent, imo. If a ball is moved by a player, it should be a foul, but when one strand of Jeanette Lee's hair touches a ball...ehhh. If the position of balls isn't disturbed, I say leave it alone.

I've always hated CB fouls only, but I think the all ball foul rules are a little too strict. It sounds like the Euros and Asians have found the perfect medium.

 

[Mark Griffin]

Ralf forfeit and CSI policy

I did not read all 9 pages of this thread. I did notice a couple of good ones. Joey A. was right on.

We never had a situation similar to this. We would never consider postponing a match for any minor reason.

After discussing this situation for just a few minutes, we came to the conclusion that we had no choice - Ralf would be forfeited if he showed up late (just as the rules state).

To do otherwise would mean we would have to determine (in the future) if a reason was valid or not. I do not want the job of determining if one person's excuse is good enough and someone elses isn't. That is a no-win problem.

Corey was asked by an official as the situation unfolded. It was done to expedite the problem because the schedule could be moved around without affecting anyone else.

However, as we looked into the whole situation, we figured out that a POLICY had to be set.

And we did that. In retropsect, Corey should not have been contacted. Corey did nothing wrong.

In all fairness, Ralf did nothing wrong either. He was involved in a car accident and the police reports and rental car paperwork is what cost him his match. We cannot help that.

It is just part of the learning process to make CSI events fair to all the players - with no favoritism. We take priode in our process and this just shows that it worked properly.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CueSports International
Mark Griffin

 

[Palmerfan]

Not anymore

If Corey had agreed to play at 3pm and then lost to Ralf, he would have hated himself.

It's a no brainer, really. Would you play Ralf Souquet if you had the option to cruise past him via forfeit?

PS: Ralf is better than Corey...and I'm sure that played a part in Corey's decision.

I don't believe for one second that Ralph Souquet is a better 9 or 10 Ball player then Corey..He used to be but not now. And it seems that they are all looking up at Shane. I don't know about the Filipinos but the Americans and Europeans take a back seat to Van Boening right now..he's playing out of his mind and a MONSTER at 9 or 10 ball. Corey isn't too far behind and there are a few in between like Mika or Hohman before Souquet gets in there. Check out the World Rankings..it isn't close between Corey and Ralf and thats not based on opinion..its based on points.

 

[jay helfert]

I don't believe for one second that Ralph Souquet is a better 9 or 10 Ball player then Corey..He used to be but not now. And it seems that they are all looking up at Shane. I don't know about the Filipinos but the Americans and Europeans take a back seat to Van Boening right now..he's playing out of his mind and a MONSTER at 9 or 10 ball. Corey isn't too far behind and there are a few in between like Mika or Hohman before Souquet gets in there. Check out the World Rankings..it isn't close between Corey and Ralf and thats not based on opinion..its based on points.

Beg to differ, I watch him play in several tournaments a year. Ralf is in the upper echelon of tournament pool. There is NOBODY that is a favorite over him and definitely not Corey. There may be players (like Shane, Darren, Lee Vann and Dennis O.) who are near equals, but favorites no. JMHO based on what I see. I am not as swayed by current rankings, as they can shift quickly with one win.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Beg to differ, I watch him play in several tournaments a year. Ralf is in the upper echelon of tournament pool. There is NOBODY that is a favorite over him and definitely not Corey. There may be players (like Shane, Darren, Lee Vann and Dennis O.) who are near equals, but favorites no. JMHO based on what I see. I am not as swayed by current rankings, as they can shift quickly with one win.

I concur with Jay.
Souquet is still in the super-elite class of player. He's liable to win any 8, 9 or 10 ball event he enters. Add 14.1 to that also.

As for the rankings, if a player does not play in a tournament that has ranking points, he gets zero points & loses ground to more active players.

 

[Rooolfl]

I don't believe for one second that Ralph Souquet is a better 9 or 10 Ball player then Corey..He used to be but not now. And it seems that they are all looking up at Shane. I don't know about the Filipinos but the Americans and Europeans take a back seat to Van Boening right now..he's playing out of his mind and a MONSTER at 9 or 10 ball. Corey isn't too far behind and there are a few in between like Mika or Hohman before Souquet gets in there. Check out the World Rankings..it isn't close between Corey and Ralf and thats not based on opinion..its based on points.

what rankings are you talking about? While I dont believe rankings accurately state which player is better, I wondered in which ranking Corey could beat Ralf in 2011.
In WPA rankings, Ralf is 19th, Corey is 91st. In AZb money rankings Ralf has 58k, Corey isnt even in the top 30 males list, which means under 11,8k.
Even if Corey would be ahead of Ralf in the rankings, Ralf would still be the big favorite imo.

 

[Nostroke]

I concur with Jay.
Souquet is still in the super-elite class of player. He's liable to win any 8, 9 or 10 ball event he enters. Add 14.1 to that also.

As for the rankings, if a player does not play in a tournament that has ranking points, he gets zero points & loses ground to more active players.

Ralf is a great bet in any 8, 9-10ball or straight pool event and besides his shooting/playing ability-3 main reasons

1 He wont make a stupid mistake
2 He wont rattle
3 He wont dog it

 

[alstl]

I don't believe for one second that Ralph Souquet is a better 9 or 10 Ball player then Corey..He used to be but not now. And it seems that they are all looking up at Shane. I don't know about the Filipinos but the Americans and Europeans take a back seat to Van Boening right now..he's playing out of his mind and a MONSTER at 9 or 10 ball. Corey isn't too far behind and there are a few in between like Mika or Hohman before Souquet gets in there. Check out the World Rankings..it isn't close between Corey and Ralf and thats not based on opinion..its based on points.

Truth is, none of the top players are going to get a spot from another top player. They can all beat each other on a given day.

Earl just beat Van Boening in a long race, 10 ball.