ABP boycotts Berhman's event

ABPpros said:
The hotels wouldn't take a postdated check , the airlines wouldn't take an IOU to come to the Open, Gas station wanted my money before I fueled up to come to the Open ! Oh, and Our entrees had to be sent in before we started the event . Does anybody see a pattern here ? If we paid all of our expenses with a credit card, 30 days from then the card company wants there money or we pay huge finance charges ! Please tell me all you guys and gals understand what I am saying ?
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The convention center wouldn't take a postdated check. The bleacher rental company wouldn't take an IOU. The table movers and mechanics wanted money before they got to the open. Oh, and the spectators won't buy seats, shirts, food before they start the event. Does anyone see a pattern here?

Shawn, Johnny, Charlie... whoever this is, I'm sorry but its a two way street. You're not doing manual labor, under the table. Its not 'dig the ditch, get your cash'. This is how things work in the professional world. The fact that he even has cash to pay ANYONE is simply amazing. CASH! Only in pool man... only in pool. That's funny!

I'm a professional in my industry and I work for very large clients. Nearly always I work for clients who are working for a client who are working for a client. The money exchange is never quick. Sometimes up to a year. It's my responsibly to manage my money. The larger the amount, usually the longer it takes. Do they have the money, of course, but I'm not the only bill they got.

How does this translate? Well, I think players need to manage their money better. I do understand you want to get paid, and you should. But if you have to wait a month or even 3 months to get paid $10k, $20k or even $50k... I think you should be more thankful that you had the opportunity to win that amount than worry about how quickly you can get it. A tournament like the US Open doesn't happen weekly.

Take a look at the lotto. Say you win $20million. YEAAAA... let me hold a hundo! :) But for real, say you win. You got a choice to make. Do you want a lump sum NOW or do you want it broken up? A pool player wants its ALL NOW!!!!! Well, all now means a lot less. Its the sucker move.

So would you rather win $15k and have to wait 3 months to get it or win nothing at all? This boycott is exactly that.
 
Instead of straight seeding, why don't they try distributing the top pros throughout the brackets? In a 256 player field there are 8 brackets of 32. Take the top 32 pros and blindly place 4 into each of the brackets, then fill the rest of the tournament with a blind draw. This would reduce the perception that the top pros are getting a free pass into the round of 32 (because there would be a good chance that 2 pros would play each other in the first 3 rounds), but it would eliminate the possibility of having a "stacked" bracket. It would also be easier from the stand point that you wouldn't have to determine how the top 32 ranked relative to each other. Also, I'd actually prefer this arrangement to a true blind draw if I was a lower level pro or an amateur because it would increase my chances of matching up with a top 32 player in the tournament. Win or lose, I'd rather have had the opportunity to play a top 32 player in the US Open than to go 2 and out against another short stop.
 
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FranCrimi said:
Good observation about the wording. Being that the ABP is an international organization, I'm guessing that some of the players involved need months to plan out their schedules. They may have other options waiting for them during those dates and they have to make decisions. It wouldn't be fair to those players for the ABP to reach a last minute agreement with Barry when some of their members would have already committed to other arrangements for those dates. They probably had to set a deadline and this was it.
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Right Fran. That's why I think they somewhat painted themselves into a corner. The leadership really cannot play in the tournament this year without it looking like a double cross on some level to the rank and file who followed them on this. They probably would have been better off having stated that UNLESS the prize fund is posted before the event or some other acceptable solution was worked out, then they would not play. But they didn't say this.

So if the stated goal is to get the US Open to pay players on time upon conclusion of the event, for this year they have actually taken away the biggest incentive for Barry to do so. That is IF the ABP leadership is being genuine and sincere in the official statements they release, to wit that because of past problems and the inability to resolve the issues for this year the association members will not play this year to call attention to their plight in the hope that this will initiate change for next year or beyond. Otherwise, it just comes off as a strong arm tactic. If so, this wouldn't be the first one I think we've seen from this new organization.
 
vasilios said:
Berry should limit past champions to a 5 year exemption.

bill
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This is absolutely true. After 35 years the number of players getting a freeroll in the tournament has become significant and that money they "don't" pay to play in the USOpen is money that on turn does not add to the prize pool.

Truth is if you won $50,000 or so in a US Open toucan not only afford to play in it next year, it is probably a pretty good gamble to do so as you are good enough toaube win it again.
 
cleary said:
The convention center wouldn't take a postdated check. The bleacher rental company wouldn't take an IOU. The table movers and mechanics wanted money before they got to the open. Oh, and the spectators won't buy seats, shirts, food before they start the event. Does anyone see a pattern here?

Shawn, Johnny, Charlie... whoever this is, I'm sorry but its a two way street. You're not doing manual labor, under the table. Its not 'dig the ditch, get your cash'. This is how things work in the professional world. The fact that he even has cash to pay ANYONE is simply amazing. CASH! Only in pool man... only in pool. That's funny!

I'm a professional in my industry and I work for very large clients. Nearly always I work for clients who are working for a client who are working for a client. The money exchange is never quick. Sometimes up to a year. It's my responsibly to manage my money. The larger the amount, usually the longer it takes. Do they have the money, of course, but I'm not the only bill they got.

How does this translate? Well, I think players need to manage their money better. I do understand you want to get paid, and you should. But if you have to wait a month or even 3 months to get paid $10k, $20k or even $50k... I think you should be more thankful that you had the opportunity to win that amount than worry about how quickly you can get it. A tournament like the US Open doesn't happen weekly.

Take a look at the lotto. Say you win $20million. YEAAAA... let me hold a hundo! :) But for real, say you win. You got a choice to make. Do you want a lump sum NOW or do you want it broken up? A pool player wants its ALL NOW!!!!! Well, all now means a lot less. Its the sucker move.

So would you rather win $15k and have to wait 3 months to get it or win nothing at all? This boycott is exactly that.
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In the pro world of sports, they strike kinda like the nfl, mba, and baseball.

Oh, at least the lotto is a known amount because the money is already there.
 
cleary said:
The convention center wouldn't take a postdated check. The bleacher rental company wouldn't take an IOU. The table movers and mechanics wanted money before they got to the open. Oh, and the spectators won't buy seats, shirts, food before they start the event. Does anyone see a pattern here?

Shawn, Johnny, Charlie... whoever this is, I'm sorry but its a two way street. You're not doing manual labor, under the table. Its not 'dig the ditch, get your cash'. This is how things work in the professional world. The fact that he even has cash to pay ANYONE is simply amazing. CASH! Only in pool man... only in pool. That's funny!

I'm a professional in my industry and I work for very large clients. Nearly always I work for clients who are working for a client who are working for a client. The money exchange is never quick. Sometimes up to a year. It's my responsibly to manage my money. The larger the amount, usually the longer it takes. Do they have the money, of course, but I'm not the only bill they got.

How does this translate? Well, I think players need to manage their money better. I do understand you want to get paid, and you should. But if you have to wait a month or even 3 months to get paid $10k, $20k or even $50k... I think you should be more thankful that you had the opportunity to win that amount than worry about how quickly you can get it. A tournament like the US Open doesn't happen weekly.

Take a look at the lotto. Say you win $20million. YEAAAA... let me hold a hundo! :) But for real, say you win. You got a choice to make. Do you want a lump sum NOW or do you want it broken up? A pool player wants its ALL NOW!!!!! Well, all now means a lot less. Its the sucker move.

So would you rather win $15k and have to wait 3 months to get it or win nothing at all? This boycott is exactly that.
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I know a bunch of these international events are basically net-30 or more when it comes to payment. No one seems to have a problem with that. Seems to me the Barry could just say "OK. Everyone gets paid in full on site except for the top 10 finishers who will receive a percentage on site and the balance in 30 to 90 days"

One of the biggest problems is Barry just flat out won't acknowledge before hand the issue. Every year it's all going to be golden. That makes people nuts. If he just changed the paradigm of how he pays up front no one can complain they just make the business decision of whether to accept those terms or not. And they would almost all accept them as long as they were honored.

Boom. I just solved the worlds problems. Let's go steal a boat Big Tony.
 
cleary said:
I'm a professional in my industry and I work for very large clients. Nearly always I work for clients who are working for a client who are working for a client. The money exchange is never quick. Sometimes up to a year. It's my responsibly to manage my money. The larger the amount, usually the longer it takes. Do they have the money, of course, but I'm not the only bill they got.
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Your post reminded me of when I used to work in acccounts receivable for a local wholesale company.

Most of the smaller, local businesses would pay thier invoices well within 30 days. Occasionally we would receive payment from a 'local' after the 30 days, and the majority of the time I would waive the late charge (depending on the customer and thier history). But there always seemed to be a problem collecting from the larger customers. And for the longest time, I couldn't understand why.

A casual conversation at a banquet/seminar with the payables department and the controller for the large company that "never payed us on time" told me why.
The controller proceeded to tell me that their company "will always be in 60 days with (my company), sometimes 90 days". I asked why that was, and the answer astounded me.......... and made complete business sense.

The interest that they collected (back when banks offered businesses MUCH higher interest-bearing acccounts) over two or three months on thier accounts paid for most, if not all, of any invoices that were 60 or 90 days past due.
Simply put, the interest they gained paid thier outstanding invoices with us.

Sucked for my company that we had to wait so long for payment, but made perfect business sense for the ones that owed us money :grin-devilish:
 
duckie said:
In the pro world of sports, they strike kinda like the nfl, mba, and baseball.

Oh, at least the lotto is a known amount because the money is already there.
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And in the pro world of Sports a player signs a contract with a team. They get paid $x over X years. Say $2million in 3 years (not everyone is a superstar). They will get $55k/month for 3 years not $2 million the day they sign the contract. So they can sign a contract and be like "im a millionaire!!!!! but, well... I need a creditcard to get a $5 footlong at Subway until I get paid."
 
duckie said:
In the pro world of sports, they strike kinda like the nfl, mba, and baseball.
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Yeah, because they are unionized.

Everyone seems to think that pool is going down the tubes in the U.S.

Well I guarantee the following:

Creating a players union would be the absolute WORST thing to ever happen to the pool world.

I was starting a thread yesterday about how the ABP feels like a union to me, but had to go back to work and didn't finish it.

Barry should be able to run his tournament how ever he wants. Don't like it? Don't play then. Start your own tournament. Go away. But telling other people how to run their business is bullsh*t.

Why did these players have to create an association to boycott a tournament anyways? To weak to just stand on their own and not go?

So you want to "follow your dreams" and be a pro player and make your living off of pool huh? That's nice. But how the hell does that give you the right to come out and tell someone how to run their tournament which you are voluntarily choosing to go to?



I don't always create associations, but when I do, I have convicted drug dealers on my board of directors. Stay professional my friends.
 
JCIN said:
I know a bunch of these international events are basically net-30 or more when it comes to payment. No one seems to have a problem with that. Seems to me the Barry could just say "OK. Everyone gets paid in full on site except for the top 10 finishers who will receive a percentage on site and the balance in 30 to 90 days"

One of the biggest problems is Barry just flat out won't acknowledge before hand the issue. Every year it's all going to be golden. That makes people nuts. If he just changed the paradigm of how he pays up front no one can complain they just make the business decision of whether to accept those terms or not. And they would almost all accept them as long as they were honored.
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Makes a lot of sense to me. The top players would get their expenses paid with the percentage and know the rest would be coming if they felt they could trust the man. It seems to me that BB brought this on himself with his attitude - or, as I think one poster put it, "volatile personality".
 
MahnaMahna said:
Yeah, because they are unionized.

Everyone seems to think that pool is going down the tubes in the U.S.

Well I guarantee the following:

Creating a players union would be the absolute WORST thing to ever happen to the pool world.

I was starting a thread yesterday about how the ABP feels like a union to me, but had to go back to work and didn't finish it.

Barry should be able to run his tournament how ever he wants. Don't like it? Don't play then. Start your own tournament. Go away. But telling other people how to run their business is bullsh*t.

Why did these players have to create an association to boycott a tournament anyways? To weak to just stand on their own and not go?

So you want to "follow your dreams" and be a pro player and make your living off of pool huh? That's nice. But how the hell does that give you the right to come out and tell someone how to run their tournament which you are voluntarily choosing to go to?



I don't always create associations, but when I do, I have convicted drug dealers on my board of directors. Stay professional my friends.
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Berry keeps putting his tournament in a bad spot.he puts in print what he is going to do then backs off what is printed.then he has to catch back up to what he promised after the tournament has long passed.Berry should reorganize that the players are paid as they complete the event.when he hands the trophy out and the money for 1ST place that should conclude all business with the players.then Berry should wind the facility down.butt Berry has the players intertwined with the show as one unit.Berry needs to separate the two.the way Berry has it now the players are the event.Berry needs to change it to where the US Open is the event and the players play in it.

bill
 
The players that are boycotting the event are idiots.

Pool is a game and these guys don't have some godly gifted athletic ability like other major sports' players. Replacement players may not work in athletics......

But replacement players sure as heck work in billiards.....

I can find a couple of guys in my local pool room who would probably put on the same performance as these pros.

How many of these guys would love to be called a US Open Champion?...Many.

The show must go on.
 
JAM said:
I found their website: http://www.abp-players.com/board.php


ABP Board of Directors:
Shane Van Boening USA
Mika Immonen FIN
Johnny Archer USA - President
Shawn Putnam USA - 2nd Vice President
Rodney Morris USA - Vice President
Mike Davis USA
Thorsten Hohmann GER
John Schmidt USA
Stevie Moore USA
Oscar Dominguez USA- Secretary & Treasurer
Charlie Williams USA
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Ok, not a big deal but something I find hysterical.
WTF is a 2nd Vice President? I work in corporate America and this is a first for me. As if Vice President isn't bad enough there is a 2nd Vice President.

Sorry, just found it funny.
Don't go hunting with Dick Cheney is all I can say.
 
Koop said:
Ok, not a big deal but something I find hysterical.
WTF is a 2nd Vice President? I work in corporate America and this is a first for me. As if Vice President isn't bad enough there is a 2nd Vice President.

Sorry, just found it funny.
Don't go hunting with Dick Cheney is all I can say.
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It's called a Caddy. :smile:
 
Koop, its like this.
Awww, if he gets to be Vice Pres, what do I get to be?
Ok, you can be ummm, 2nd Vice Pres.

Heyyyy, no fair, if he get to be something, what do I get?
OK, ahh, you get to be Sergeant at Arms then, OK.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
Koop, its like this.
Awww, if he gets to be Vice Pres, what do I get to be?
Ok, you can be ummm, 2nd Vice Pres.

Heyyyy, no fair, if he get to be something, what do I get?
OK, ahh, you get to be Sergeant at Arms then, OK.
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LOL. One thing's for sure, they're missing a Miss Congeniality. ;)
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
LOL. One thing's for sure, they're missing a Miss Congeniality. ;)
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Actually, they need an Office of Public Affairs. Sometimes those at the top shouldn't speak in public.

There are a few unnamed heads/secretaries/administrators of Federal Government entities who do not speak publicly due to their inability to communicate the vision of their agency correctly. They end up getting in trouble with the administration, meaning Office of the President, and later they have to appear before Congress and explain what they meant before Congress cuts off their Budget Request for the next appropriations.

People trained in public affairs know how to speak. They should be utilized to represent the best interests of their organization.
 
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