i got argument live right now with JA on the phone

Blue Hog ridr said:
Eric, does JA have carpet in his house?
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Yes, its horrible under his table. Its nice carpet, but its too thick and then has a real thick pad, It took Mark 2 weeks to get the slates to settle in before he could level it. Its like walking with heavy shoes on, my legs get tired on padded carpet, I used to play at this one joint in Tracy Ca that had padded carpet and after 3 hours, my legs were on fire.

JA's carpet is real nice, top top stuff, but its the wrong carpet to put a box on. IMO and Marks(table mechanic-wow he is awesome!!!), too. I perfer a thin indoor/outdoor high grade carpet. Lege never get tired and the table dont have to settle in when your installing it.

no lint on his carpets at home either;). If you notice he aint picking lint as much like 5 years ago. He sure is playing good rite now. He is pumped up, I might open the window and take JA to win turningstone if I get a good price.

it was funny as heck when we were arguing about this, i wish I had a audio clip of it, I know everyone would havre laughed their ass off-listening to us sling shit at each other like that movie "Grumpier Old Men".

on a seroius note thanks for the wiki copy/paste, I red that quote to JA and he said "since thats Mosconi's quote I believe it 100%, thanks". JA has more respect for the old school that you might think.


In the heat of the argument I told him it was a 8' table so he didnt have to walk as far, JA said "Good point, but I still dont believe it.

the whole beef got started in Oh this past weekend talking on the rail, some guy told JA it took 95minutes, JA said "It would take 9-10 hours. Thats when the beef started(all in good fun). We yell at each other like old men or kids. its too funny.


thanks for the posts in this thread.
 
sneakynito said:
at the end of this video Mosconi is asked about his high run and he says ~2hours and 20 minutes. But when asked if he missed he says that he did not, he quit because he got tired.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E&feature=related
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As competitive as Mosconi was said to be it's highly doubtful that he would simply walk away from a run like that. I would tend to think that a player in that sort of zone shoots until they miss.
 
lfigueroa said:
I saw Mosconi shoot several times -- he was fast. I mean really fast. Most times he'd almost run to the next shot, but gracefully, like a dancer. Very occasionally he'd look at shot for a moment and then shoot it off it a blink.

Lou Figueroa
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What Lou said. Watching Willie run balls was a thing of smooth rhythhm.

Scott
 
Willie was a slow-poke

Lou 'Machinegun' Butera, in his prime and on a good day, could run a rack
in under a minute....and a hundred in ten minutes.
..maybe the fastest world champion ever.

Frank Taberski had a period of dominance at straight pool....
..and he may have been the slowest world champion...
.but dominate he did.

Sooo....speed may not be the criteria of a great player.

so just maybe....JA gonna take one down
 
pt109 said:
Lou 'Machinegun' Butera, in his prime and on a good day, could run a rack
in under a minute....and a hundred in ten minutes.
..maybe the fastest world champion ever.

Frank Taberski had a period of dominance at straight pool....
..and he may have been the slowest world champion...
.but dominate he did.

Sooo....speed may not be the criteria of a great player.

so just maybe....JA gonna take one down
Click to expand...

Yup, and Lou also holds the record for the fastest 150-and-out ever. Quoting from Lou Butera's wiki:
"His nickname, 'Machine Gun Lou', derives from his stunning the crowd and fellow competitors by running 150-and-out in straight pool in 21 minutes against Allen Hopkins in 1973."​
​
Lou's also got a couple videos on YouTube showing him run a complete rack of 15 balls in under a minute and a half:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k79m0-4q_Rs

Lou's always been one of my favorites to watch, for sure! No deliberation whatsoever; he instinctively "knows" which is the correct shot to complete the pattern.

-Sean
 
pt109 said:
Lou 'Machinegun' Butera, in his prime and on a good day, could run a rack
in under a minute....and a hundred in ten minutes.
..maybe the fastest world champion ever.

Frank Taberski had a period of dominance at straight pool....
..and he may have been the slowest world champion...
.but dominate he did.

Sooo....speed may not be the criteria of a great player.

so just maybe....JA gonna take one down
Click to expand...

Then there's the other "machine gun" and your fellow countryman: :smile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV-wbGrvP9o

I always thought how funny it would be to see him and Kid Delicious play each other. :rolleyes:

Best,
Brian kc
 
two seperate runs and a stroke

pdcue said:
For years he claimed that he did not miss, for reasons I never did understand. In "Willies' Game", he did admit he had missed.

Dale
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Willie Mosconi had a stroke. I am in no position to know what effect this had on his memory, but there is an undocumented run by Willie wherein he did indeed just quit because he was tired and hungry. It was witnessed by Charles J. Ursitti, the noted billiard historian. I will ask him again about the details, and maybe I can get him to post on here, but I remember Charlie telling me that he witnessed Mosconi make 600 and then lay his cue down and quit because he wanted to go to dinner. Part of the run was witnessed by Pete Margo if I am remembering correctly. In the video Mosconi says he quit on the 526, but a man with a history of stroke could have mixed up runs. Either way, the run did end. Don Brink, who runs Raytown Rec in Raytown MO (KC area) was a rack boy at Kling & Allen and saw Mosconi many times in Mosconi's prime. When I told him of Mosconi's unfinished run of 600, he said "John, if you told me Mosconi ran a million balls, I would believe you." I believe the 8 foot table size was a handicap because of the difficulty separating balls.
 
hunger strike said:
... I believe the 8 foot table size was a handicap because of the difficulty separating balls.
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Having watched John Schmidt run 182 on a 7-foot table in less than an hour, I have to disagree with this. I asked Jimmy Caras about whether he felt playing on an 8-foot table was easier or harder than a 9-foot, and he said that 8-foot tables were easier and top players would only miss out of fatigue.

As for the 8-foot table that's in the record, George Rood was familiar with it as he bought the room about 6 months after the run. He said that the pockets were not particularly easy.
 
pt109 said:
Lou 'Machinegun' Butera, in his prime and on a good day, could run a rack
in under a minute....and a hundred in ten minutes.
..maybe the fastest world champion ever.

Frank Taberski had a period of dominance at straight pool....
..and he may have been the slowest world champion...
.but dominate he did.

Sooo....speed may not be the criteria of a great player.

so just maybe....JA gonna take one down
Click to expand...

Did Lou Butera actually tell you that? Maybe I should spend a couple more minutes on this subject, but what immediately comes to mind is that Lou must have averaged around 5 balls per inning on such a run of 100 for he figured to lose 1-1/2 to 2 minutes just from having to re-rack the balls six times. I guess it's possible if one puts setting a speed record ahead of playing well but don't yet see the possibility of anyone accomplishing that except for the possibility of Frankie Boughton. No body else could do that when wanting to win in a competitive match of any importance.

In the 50s, I'd seen Mosconi run balls in exhibition matches vs. Onofrio Laurie at around the speed of a Lou Butera, if not even faster, though he looked slower from how graceful he was at the time. He went out in two innings in both 125 games on 9-foot old Brunswick tables with 5.25-inch corner pockets.

I've done quite a bit of research on this subject upon attempting to understand the relationship between speed and rhythm and as to how they relate to one's ability level and I'm quite confident that, of those that could play professional level, the fastest shooter in pocket billiards, was quite definitely by far a Frankie Boughton. He'd played in world straight-pool tournament(s). He'd supposedly sometimes miss from failure to wait for the cue ball to fully come to rest. Eddie Robin
[/I]
 
Eddie Robin said:
Did Lou Butera actually tell you that? Maybe I should spend a couple more minutes on this subject, but what immediately comes to mind is that Lou must have averaged around 5 balls per inning on such a run of 100 for he figured to lose 1-1/2 to 2 minutes just from having to re-rack the balls six times. I guess it's possible if one puts setting a speed record ahead of playing well but don't yet see the possibility of anyone accomplishing that except for the possibility of Frankie Boughton. No body else could do that when wanting to win in a competitive match of any importance.

In the 50s, I'd seen Mosconi run balls in exhibition matches vs. Onofrio Laurie at around the speed of a Lou Butera, if not even faster, though he looked slower from how graceful he was at the time. He went out in two innings in both 125 games on 9-foot old Brunswick tables with 5.25-inch corner pockets.

I've done quite a bit of research on this subject upon attempting to understand the relationship between speed and rhythm and as to how they relate to one's ability level and I'm quite confident that, of those that could play professional level, the fastest shooter in pocket billiards, was quite definitely by far a Frankie Boughton. He'd played in world straight-pool tournament(s). He'd supposedly sometimes miss from failure to wait for the cue ball to fully come to rest. Eddie Robin
[/I]
Click to expand...
I used to go to Lou Butera's House of Champions when I was a kid...
..Wilkes-Barre, I believe...in Pennsylvania
I never caught Lou in, he always seemed to be busy.We became acquainted later in life.I asked him about these speed stories...he said
one minute for a rack was possible on a good day, so I figure 10 minutes
for a 100 balls is also possible...NOT counting rack time.
Understand, this was his patrons and supporters telling me the times.
Lou was not a braggart, at least to me.
I figure 4 seconds a ball left him 4 seconds per minute for chalking.

...never heard of Frankie Boughton...would love to see some footage.

regards
pt..<..who owns your 1-pocket books and refuses to sell...the stories
alone are worth the price, the instruction is a bonus
 
pt109 said:
I used to go to Lou Butera's House of Champions when I was a kid...
..Wilkes-Barre, I believe...in Pennsylvania
I never caught Lou in, he always seemed to be busy.We became acquainted later in life.I asked him about these speed stories...he said
one minute for a rack was possible on a good day, so I figure 10 minutes
for a 100 balls is also possible...NOT counting rack time.
Understand, this was his patrons and supporters telling me the times.
Lou was not a braggart, at least to me.
I figure 4 seconds a ball left him 4 seconds per minute for chalking.

...never heard of Frankie Boughton...would love to see some footage.

regards
pt..<..who owns your 1-pocket books and refuses to sell...the stories
alone are worth the price, the instruction is a bonus
Click to expand...

With Kamui chalk, he might get to 9 minutes! :thumbup:
 
Bob Jewett said:
Having watched John Schmidt run 182 on a 7-foot table in less than an hour, I have to disagree with this. I asked Jimmy Caras about whether he felt playing on an 8-foot table was easier or harder than a 9-foot, and he said that 8-foot tables were easier and top players would only miss out of fatigue.

As for the 8-foot table that's in the record, George Rood was familiar with it as he bought the room about 6 months after the run. He said that the pockets were not particularly easy.
Click to expand...

That is accurate about the pockets. I had an extended conversation with
a gentleman who was 15 at the time of "The Run". He later became a
decent shortstop and probably the best player in Springfield as long
as George stayed in New Carlisle:)

He said he later played some road players on that table, or one of
the 5 or 6 identical other ones, and none of them found it a push-over.

There was a very good 9 footer that the owner had recoverd just for
the event. Unfortunately, it was an A. E. Schmidt, and since there were
Brunswick tables in the room, Willie was required to play on one of them
due to his contract.

Dale
 
History question possibly answered...

pdcue said:
That is accurate about the pockets. I had an extended conversation with
a gentleman who was 15 at the time of "The Run". He later became a
decent shortstop and probably the best player in Springfield as long
as George stayed in New Carlisle:)

He said he later played some road players on that table, or one of
the 5 or 6 identical other ones, and none of them found it a push-over.

There was a very good 9 footer that the owner had recoverd just for
the event. Unfortunately, it was an A. E. Schmidt, and since there were
Brunswick tables in the room, Willie was required to play on one of them
due to his contract.

Dale
Click to expand...

PD CUE.... I had wondered about the A.E. Schmidt thing because all accounts I read said brunswick 8' but one guy said 8' A.E. Schmidt with "tough pockets." What you are saying makes sense. I am glad Bob Jewett straightened me out about the ease of 8 footers. Now that I think about it, I like to break out clusters and it is easier on an 8 footer. But I had been imagining breaking secondary breaks and having balls rebound back into more clusters. Anyway, thanks for the great input Bob, always accurate, friendly, well written and authoritative. Young whipper snappers like me love to hear this stuff.... (Thanks to Eddie Robin for the input by the way)
 
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Mosconi's run of 589 at age 66 or so in '79(born 1913)

I just spoke with Charles Ursitti. He is ok right now riding out the hurricaine in Florida. I asked him about the run he witnessed which I knew to be near 600. The details are that it was done in the practice room of a major Las Vegas tournament in 1979. Charlie says that all the tournament pros came in to watch portions of the run at one point or another. Pete Margo came in and watched some.... then asked Charlie what the score is up to and Charlie said over 20 racks. He quotes Margo as saying that "if there was a 5000 point match right now, I'd bet on Willie." On the 589th ball, which was set up as a perfect break shot, Charlie told Willie that the next rack would put him over 600, but just as he was saying it, Willie fired in the 589th ball before the balls were racked. It was over because Willie was hungry and tired. I know Charles Ursitti very, very well and in doing research for him he has made me check and recheck facts. The overwhelming majority of his data (as seen on his website on the history of the game's records) has multiple sources. He is a stickler for facts. He has also been referee for many big matches. I have ZERO doubt in my mind as to the validity of this story. No doubt. This feat was accomplished on a standard 4.5'x9' Brunswick Gold Crown. If the tournament director is on AZ, he will probably know the pocket size being used at that time.
 
There are probably a few who frequent the 14.1 portion of AZ that could contribute to these accounts.
 
Fatboy, have you and JA been discussing pool? Cease and desist immediately!! :D

If I were to venture a guess I would think you are correct - he did it in under 5 hours. Willie played very fast as any old footage would show. 5 hours would have given him over 30 seconds per shot, way more time than Willie typically took between shots. And obviously there would have been no need for "think" time about playing safe along the way.
 
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