Dragon World 14.1 Tournament, is still the World 14.1 Championships

[JAM]

Well, my little chickadees, Pepsi Cola is now sponsoring the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship.

A non-industry sponsor at a pool event is a step in the right direction to put pool on the American map.

Bravo to Team Behrman for making this happen.

And once again, bravo to AzBilliards for reporting the news on the Main Page. Sometimes the topics may be political, and I love the fact that AzBilliards does not take sides and reports the facts for its readership to form their own opinions. Again, this is what separates AzBilliards from all the rest. :smile:

 

[JAM]

If Mike Davis wins, do you think he is going to think he is now a World Champion?

I do. I think Mike Davis will be proud as punch to have that title on his pool portfolio. :smile:

I go back to the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship when it only had a 64-player field. Winning that title then sure is a lot different than winning that title today with a 256-player field of champions from around the world. True, a shortstop, amateur, D player, ball banger, and a railbird like me can pay their $500 and get in this tournament, but it's a tough row to hoe to make it to the top! :grin:

 

[JAM]

Well, the problem with statements about who should be doing what with someone else's money is that it's not THEIR own money they are spending.

Lou Butera doesn't know the financials of the companies he speaks about and he evidently doesn't understand that income does not equal profit. Anything spent on sponsoring, promoting, advertising etc...is an expense that doesn't immediately translate into more sales.

Unlike other sports the reach of any particular action in the billiard industry is dismal. If a company spends $100,000 on a tournament then so what? The increase in sales is so slight that it's not worth measuring. Tournaments do nothing to raise public awareness of pool as something they should be doing over any other activities.

Sponsoring is great for the players and tournaments are great for the players but they suck for the companies who pay for them....

Well, John, looks like Pepsi is jumping on the pool wagon. If more non-industry sponsors get in on sponsoring pool, maybe the pool industry sponsors will take notice. After all, aren't most of the pool industry sponsors members of the BCA? Therein likes an opportunity.

I kind of agree with Lou. Back in his prime, things were different than today. Pool was shown on ESPN with Willie, Steve Mizerak, Allen Hopkins, and Fats. It wasn't only the lady pros or Jeanette Lee. Pool did have a bigger footprint.

I get the return on the investment, though. I am optimistic and will hope for the best. Maybe the BCA's members will find it in their heart the give the poor pool dogs a little bone with not much meat on it from time to time.

 

[JB Cases]

Well, John, looks like Pepsi is jumping on the pool wagon. If more non-industry sponsors get in on sponsoring pool, maybe the pool industry sponsors will take notice. After all, aren't most of the pool industry sponsors members of the BCA? Therein likes an opportunity.

I kind of agree with Lou. Back in his prime, things were different than today. Pool was shown on ESPN with Willie, Steve Mizerak, Allen Hopkins, and Fats. It wasn't only the lady pros or Jeanette Lee. Pool did have a bigger footprint.

I get the return on the investment, though. I am optimistic and will hope for the best. Maybe the BCA's members will find it in their heart the give the poor pool dogs a little bone with not much meat on it from time to time.

We don't know the particulars of the Pepsi deal. Just because it says Pepsi on the poster doesn't mean that Pepsico HQ is even aware that there is a pool tournament going on. Every local bottler has a marketing budget that they can throw towards local events.

Pool has been on ESPN since ESPN's inception. When ESPN wants filler they have a vast archive of pool tournament footage that they can show without paying a single cent to anyone. In fact that is one of the selling points of promoters when selling banner space for televised events; that there might be endless reruns.

Trust me, this Pepsi thing is not what you think it is. The sad part is that for the tiniest fraction of their annual marketing budget PepsiCo could OWN pool as could any Fortune500 company. They could own pool and give it an attractive platform for the sports channels or other channels (think Travel Channel) to have a consistent tour to showcase.

"Pool" is too niche, too diverse and not sexy enough for mainstream America to get interested in. When Tennis and Golf get great ratings most of the people watching don't even play.

Anyway, I am kind of jaded these days when it comes to the billiard industry and professional pool. Whatever is going to happen will happen. If it grows then great, if it stagnates then whatever. Pool won't die. It's a great game, diverse with lots of history but it's been looking for a savior for 150 years. I don't think one is coming.

 

[JAM]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_advertising may help.

Thanks for sharing the interesting link. Here is the part about sports in this well-written Wiki article: Tobacco advertising is the advertising of tobacco products or use (typically cigarette smoking) by the tobacco industry through a variety of media including sponsorship, particularly of sporting events. It is now one of the most highly regulated forms of marketing. Some or all forms of tobacco advertising are banned in many countries.

I wish it would elaborate more on sponsorship of sports events, though it was crystal clear about print media and broadcast not allowing advertising of cigarette products. I actually did a great deal of work with the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids as well as the congressional committees when they were investigating Big Tobacco back in the '90s, so it's a topic that's very familiar to me. I don't remember anything about sponsoring sports events, but back then, it wasn't a topic of interest to me, so I might have missed it.

Interestingly, I think it was in 2004 or 2005 that we went to the Virginia State 9-Ball Championship in Richmond, where there are several cigarette factories. Man, I can remember buying a carton of cigarettes for $17 when they cost $45 in my neck of the woods back then.

Camel cigarettes sponsored and came to this pool event, gave out free Camel cigarettes, souvenirs, and Camel memorabilia. I still have ours. I was a smoker back then and really enjoyed this. The Camel cigarettes had different exotic flavors, like vanilla cream, et cetera.

Today, I would not want to attend any tournament that allowed smoking. It's amazing what a flip-flop you do when you quit smoking, which for me it's been 3-1/2 years as a non-smoker.

Here's a shot of the infamous Action Table Pit at the Super Billiards Expo in Valley Forge when smoking used to be allowed.

 

[JAM]

One more pool shot of the Action Pit when smoking was allowed. :embarrassed2:

 

[JB Cases]

One more pool shot of the Action Pit when smoking was allowed. :embarrassed2:

Jenny,

If you EVER want to publish a book of your images with captions please put my name at the top of the list. You always have the right shot for the occasion.

 

[JAM]

We don't know the particulars of the Pepsi deal. Just because it says Pepsi on the poster doesn't mean that Pepsico HQ is even aware that there is a pool tournament going on. Every local bottler has a marketing budget that they can throw towards local events.

Pool has been on ESPN since ESPN's inception. When ESPN wants filler they have a vast archive of pool tournament footage that they can show without paying a single cent to anyone. In fact that is one of the selling points of promoters when selling banner space for televised events; that there might be endless reruns.

Trust me, this Pepsi thing is not what you think it is. The sad part is that for the tiniest fraction of their annual marketing budget PepsiCo could OWN pool as could any Fortune500 company. They could own pool and give it an attractive platform for the sports channels or other channels (think Travel Channel) to have a consistent tour to showcase.

"Pool" is too niche, too diverse and not sexy enough for mainstream America to get interested in. When Tennis and Golf get great ratings most of the people watching don't even play.

Anyway, I am kind of jaded these days when it comes to the billiard industry and professional pool. Whatever is going to happen will happen. If it grows then great, if it stagnates then whatever. Pool won't die. It's a great game, diverse with lots of history but it's been looking for a savior for 150 years. I don't think one is coming.

I understand the jadedness, John. I know of some instances where pool players were sponsored with product by industry members, and unfortunately, the pool players did not promote the industry member the way they were supposed to. You are right in that this is not conducive to having pool industry members attracted to provide sponsorship.

That said, not all pool players are "lazy bums" or should be blamed for pool's problems in the States. Look at Tony Robles, Tommy Kennedy, Mike Zuglan, Mike Janis, and Tony Crosby, as just a few examples, of players who have or are now running regional pool tours to keep pool alive in their regions.

Look at Melissa Little, Vivian, Alison, Mike Massey, Ewa, and Charlie Wiliams, et al., who have put on charity events.

I'd have to include Keith in this as well. He has not only attended several charity events, but we also go to a senior assisted living facility each Christmas to spend a day with the residents. Just yesterday, we mailed five packages out of product to fans -- FREE OF CHARGE.

When BCA's own members thumb their nose at pool players that they are supposed to represent, well, these are the same people who are supposed to be making decisions as the representatives of the United States to the WPA. This is a little disconcerting.

 

[JAM]

Jenny,

If you EVER want to publish a book of your images with captions please put my name at the top of the list. You always have the right shot for the occasion.

I know. It makes you want to cough just looking at that picture. LOL!

 

[azhousepro]

When Buster Douglas and John Wayne won those things, they really won them.

While I agree that Mike is deserving of a World Title, it would be nice if he actually won one instead of thinking he was competing for one when he wasn't.

Mike

Did Buster Douglas? Why not?
When John Wayne won the award for Best Actor in 1969 for True Grit do you think he was the Best?
Whats your point?
Man people work hard for success. Mike Davis is just as deserving as any other pro of a world title.
Its history that determines what will stand. Not you or I?

 

[azhousepro]

John, while I agree that this is probably not Pepsico getting involved in the event, I think that even having a Pepsi bottling company involved in the event is better than not.

Mike

We don't know the particulars of the Pepsi deal. Just because it says Pepsi on the poster doesn't mean that Pepsico HQ is even aware that there is a pool tournament going on. Every local bottler has a marketing budget that they can throw towards local events.

 

[lfigueroa]

Who says money doesn't talk? For a $500 entry fee, these lower-tiered players can buy their way into a world championship event and rub shoulders with some of the best players in the game.

Everyone knows that these filler players aren't going to get very far in the tournament. At least they help fill out the 64-player field and contribute about $8000 to the prize fund. If you're a spectator watching the tournament, hold your nose, cover your eyes and look the other way if necessary.

Having said that, I agree with the other posters that DP's calling this a "World Tournament (championship)" with lower-tiered players buying their way into the tournament, is pushing the limits of credibility.

OK, so I was thinking about this "pulling players out of the stands" thing and have to ask: are there players in the stands, pool cue case in hand AND wearing a vest to meet the dress code? IOW, is the word out there that if you show up with the money and the right clothes you get into the World Championship? Does it matter if you can play at all?

Lou Figueroa

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

OK, so I was thinking about this "pulling players out of the stands" thing and have to ask: are there players in the stands, pool cue case in hand AND wearing a vest to meet the dress code? IOW, is the word out there that if you show up with the money and the right clothes you get into the World Championship? Does it matter if you can play at all?

Lou Figueroa

Well, I imagine if DP is going to pluck spectators out of the stands or ask if there are any volunteers who'd like to play in the tournament, they should give them a free entry. And if a spectator/volunteer happens to be wearing a t-shirt, jeans and sneakers, they'll give you a vest so you look halfway presentable. If you forgot your cue at home, no problem, they'll loan you a house cue.

Regardless of whether you can play or not, the DP circus act must go on! :thumbup:

 

[JB Cases]

John, while I agree that this is probably not Pepsico getting involved in the event, I think that even having a Pepsi bottling company involved in the event is better than not.

Mike

Sure. But let's not make it out to be more than it is. Just like the discussion about whether the current DP event has been made out to be more than it is...

 

[JB Cases]

When Buster Douglas and John Wayne won those things, they really won them.

While I agree that Mike is deserving of a World Title, it would be nice if he actually won one instead of thinking he was competing for one when he wasn't.

Mike

Actually the players are competing for a world title. Professional players from all over the globe are competing for the title. It's an international event. The winner can call himself a world champion since there is no other event in 2011 that can compete with it. He can't call himself a WPA World Champion because this accomplishment will not be recorded by the WPA or the BCA.

The WPA is not the final arbiter of titles. They MAY elect to recognize titles earned in non-WPA sanctioned events but they don't have to. Whether they recognize a title or not does not diminish the achievement.

Is Darren Appleton not a "true" World Champion because he didn't beat the best players in the world because of Makabenta's politics? Should he feel like less of a champion because a lot of the world's greatest players boycotted the event he won?

DP has certainly played very loose with their advertising. This is NOT the 71st World Championship of Straight pool. That is a blatant lie. However I have ZERO problem with Dragon Promotions calling it a World Championship. They don't want to be sanctioned by the WPA so whoever wins their world championship will have no WPA/BCA recognition. But the winner can certainly have the title. What the title is ultimately "worth" is unknown. I imagine that I would not want to be the one who was walking around telling folks I was the world champion in 2011 and yet there was no record of it anywhere that counts.

I do have a problem with any tournament that purports to be a World Championship that has less than the best possible players in it. That's just false advertising to charge people to come in and watch bangers in an event billed as a World Championship. At least in the WPA events which have qualifiers the qualifiers are all contested among top players and everyone knows that the players who come through the qualifiers are tough opponents.

 

[nathandumoulin]

While I agree that Mike is deserving of a World Title, it would be nice if he actually won one instead of thinking he was competing for one when he wasn't.

Regardless of the WPA, this is the most prestigious 14.1 event of the year. It is clearly recognize by the players as the world championship, and in their eyes, the winner will be the 2011 World Champion.

Until there is an event that can meet WPA sanction regulations, I really can't blame the players. Unofficial or not, it's the best event of it's kind.

 

[yobagua]

When Buster Douglas and John Wayne won those things, they really won them.

While I agree that Mike is deserving of a World Title, it would be nice if he actually won one instead of thinking he was competing for one when he wasn't.

QUOTE Mike}

See this is the point I want to bring up. Just because an organized body certifies you as "World Champion" doesnt conversly make you a world champ either. I brought up Wayne because everyone knows it was a tribute to his longevity and friendship to the powers that be that got him the award. Not really because he is known as a world class actor but a world class box office phenom.
Whatever Mike Davis or any other pro feels about himself is not up to you, Jerry Forsyth, or myself to determine. Think about all those ball players who played before Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier. None of them ever got to claim World Champion title because the body politic at that time didnt recognize them.
Politics be damned. Anyone who beats a field of Soquet, Schmidt, Ortmann, Cohen, Archer, Robles, Sigel, Pagulayan, et al can call themselves whatever they want.
I do understand the need for organization, clarity, and legitimizing the sport but lets think of the participants first. The Olympics under Brundage was a joke. Americans could take no money while Europeans and Asian athletes were getting all kinds of government funding, gifts, and support.
Whether it be the BCA, WPA, or DP let them come under scrutiny. Let the players have their day without doubt.

Keone

 

[maldito]

Lou,

Just so you know (and the other that are interested),

CSI has been granted use of the name: US OPEN STRAIGHT POOL CHAMPIONSHIP.



Mark Griffin

Who granted the use of the name " US OPEN STRAIGHT POOL CHAMPIONSHIP " to CSI ??

 

[Eddie Robin]

All Games Deserve A Single & Current World Champ

When Buster Douglas and John Wayne won those things, they really won them.

While I agree that Mike is deserving of a World Title, it would be nice if he actually won one instead of thinking he was competing for one when he wasn't.

QUOTE Mike}

See this is the point I want to bring up. Just because an organized body certifies you as "World Champion" doesnt conversly make you a world champ either. I brought up Wayne because everyone knows it was a tribute to his longevity and friendship to the powers that be that got him the award. Not really because he is known as a world class actor but a world class box office phenom.
Whatever Mike Davis or any other pro feels about himself is not up to you, Jerry Forsyth, or myself to determine. Think about all those ball players who played before Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier. None of them ever got to claim World Champion title because the body politic at that time didnt recognize them.
Politics be damned. Anyone who beats a field of Soquet, Schmidt, Ortmann, Cohen, Archer, Robles, Sigel, Pagulayan, et al can call themselves whatever they want.
I do understand the need for organization, clarity, and legitimizing the sport but lets think of the participants first. The Olympics under Brundage was a joke. Americans could take no money while Europeans and Asian athletes were getting all kinds of government funding, gifts, and support.
Whether it be the BCA, WPA, or DP let them come under scrutiny. Let the players have their day without doubt.

Keone

Keone,

All Games Deserve A Single & Current World Champ.

I agree with you that John Wayne having received an undeserved award for great acting and how the top-level black baseball players of yesteryear were not properly rewarded are certainly regrettable. I always appreciate those that are concerned and strive to remedy the many injustices that do take place in our world. However, it is for those very same pool players that you say should come first that we want and need continual improvements in areas such as “organization, clarity, and legitimizing”.

I’d think several world champions in any specific game in a specific year should be avoided much as a failure to have a world champion in any given year should be avoided. I suggest that the highest-level competitiive event in any given year should decide World Champion in a game if and when no other such events have qualified and been sanctioned as per organizational requirements of a ruling body.

BTW; though Dragon Promotions seem to have made some mistakes, praise received for all that have contributed to this very fine event is certainly very well deserved and I expect their future events to continually improve in various ways with each such experience. Those that help the game more than they hurt it deserve support just as those that hurt the game more than they help it should be exposed.

Eddie Robin

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Who granted the use of the name " US OPEN STRAIGHT POOL CHAMPIONSHIP " to CSI ??

My guess would be the US Patent and Trademark Office.