LMAO!!!! i suspect he is LHAO at the 163 remark.
Tight Pockets
- Thread starter Island Drive
- Start date
I'm telling you, when playing 10 ball, no holds barred, you'd see shots like you'd never see in any other game played. When a player comes up on a shot that would seem impossible to make, he'd have to do something creative, because there's no safeties, and no legal shot that don't require pocketing a ball, meaning if the player DON'T pocket the ball...it's ball in hand to the incoming player...so shoot to make what ever you can...any way you can if you want to keep shooting. THAT is when you'll see the rabbit being pulled out of the hat, and that is what's missing in todays pool.
Glen
I agree with a lot of this, but my angle is a bit different than yours.
I have often suggested that, just like in golf, the toughtest playing conditions should be reserved only for the biggest championships. Tightening the pockets for a US Open 9-ball event makes sense, but the use of supertight equipment in unprestigious events doesn't make sense to me.
Incidentally, in recent times, new rules are a) gradually taking the two way shot out of nine and ten ball and b) reducing the importance of billiard knowledge (as the jump cue often replaces the kick shot even for poor players). Ours is a generation doing everything in its power to take strategy and knowledge out of rotation games. Fifty years from now, pros will be playing the ghost and a match will be decided by who runs more racks out of ten, and the oldest guy in the room will be the only one able to speak of the days when strategy was an integral part of rotation games.
Thank the lord for one pocket and straight pool, two games that continue to demand extremely creative decision making and insightful solutions. Neither of these games is evolving in a way that will deemphasize the inherent strategic aspects.
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been there, done that, no magic
Glen,
One of the TV games, maybe seven ball or skins, did just that. We didn't get any magic or superhuman efforts, we just got players shooting to tie up balls when they didn't have a fairly high percentage shot.
Hu
Glen,
One of the TV games, maybe seven ball or skins, did just that. We didn't get any magic or superhuman efforts, we just got players shooting to tie up balls when they didn't have a fairly high percentage shot.
Hu
Yep,
Watching players that caught a second and third gear and came from waaaaaaaay down, then causing their opponent to fold was the nature of the VERY agressive style of the last generation of players of nine ball, and its VERY exciting for the audience. Seeing as the amount of travel needed and all the risks to actually pay for ones expenses, this somewhat makes sense. But, like Billy Incardona said, 24 sec shot clock, then if you add sets of 3 out of five or 4 out of seven, and have em lag for break....Light went ON!!!!!!!!
OH YEAH..this Just came to me, tennis aspect. In these sets, have one person break that set, then the other person break the next set, lets say race to 5 or race to 3 or 4, and with a tiebreaker like tennis, Now that could work. You rack completely for your opponents set of first whatever race is chosen, then the next set your opponent racks for YOU.
Hummmmmmmmmm, very interesting, as this is the first time I thought of it, but as always, I would like whats best for the GAME and then whats best for the PLAYERS. I wish someone would try this, and the majic rack would address the rackers situation and the breakers too.
here is another thing i have learned from playing on triple shimmed pockets. seeing how english shots DO effect accuracy, i have found you get a better understand of the natural rolls the cue ball takes for specif types of shots. i.e. off rail cuts and when i hard stroke is needed to round a table.
i hope i made it clear.
john
i hope i made it clear.
john
Must have been one of those pesky Bar Flies.:smile:Sounds like it might be time to get some glasses!Seriously though, to me, the bigger problem is the cloth. Why mechanics feel they have to stretch it as tight as they possibly can is beyond me. I've seen bartables that were faster than the billiard tables in the same room! I once saw a fly by the table, and I swear half the balls rolled a little when that little sucker farted.
The cloth today doesn't need a stroke. It requires just a rolling cb to get around the table. Bring back slower cloth! It doesn't have to be napped, just not stretched so blame tight.
Hu, in my 10 ball no holds barred tournaments, if you made the 10 out of rotation, it counted as a win and spotted back up. I've seen as many as 7 wins in one game. Frenchie and Rich Geiler were playing a race to 13, score was tied up 12/12, Rich broke, made the 10 on the break, score 13/12 thought he'd won the match, until Frenchie reminded him they were still in the middle of the game and proceeded to spot the 10 and remind Rich it was still his turn. The match ended with Frenchie wining 15/14 as the 10 ball was made last:grin:
Glen
I also promoted an early win rule. Any time you get a 7 game lead on your opponent it would be considered to be an early knock out, as long as the last full rack was complete. Dan Louie, in a race to 13, won his first match 7-0, second match 7-0, and his third straight knock out 8-1 over Rich Geiler. Dan Louie won the tournament with a 13/12 win over Frenchie, but the score of the last game started at 12/9, Frenchie won 3 times in that last game to tie up the score up before rattling the 10 in a corner pocket which let Dan out for the win.
Glen
I don't see how tight pockets make "force follow" a harder shot to execute than bucket pockets. If I see someone getting position a few times spinning the rock, it dosen't really do much...because it really isn't much. I don't know really what force follow is, but there are other shots guys play on tight pockets that are much more demanding than a simple force follow. A guy putting 3 together on tight pockets rattles me more than a guy going 5 rails on any table.
force follow
Force follow is when the cue ball is still spinning forward faster than a natural roll when it strikes the object ball. It makes the cue ball take a path that people used to drawing all the time rarely consider. It is seen seldom enough now that I have had my opponent jump out the chair a handful of times wanting to know what the hell I just did. The more I think about it the more I agree that one of the things to make the game more interesting would be to bring back a slower cloth, napped or not. Gives spin more to bite on and makes more things possible.
Hu
Force follow is when the cue ball is still spinning forward faster than a natural roll when it strikes the object ball. It makes the cue ball take a path that people used to drawing all the time rarely consider. It is seen seldom enough now that I have had my opponent jump out the chair a handful of times wanting to know what the hell I just did. The more I think about it the more I agree that one of the things to make the game more interesting would be to bring back a slower cloth, napped or not. Gives spin more to bite on and makes more things possible.
Hu
One of the drawbacks of play a lot of top spin/follow english, is that that very same shot can transfer draw/backspin on the object ball being pocketed, which can result in the ball being rejected out of the pocket as well
can't resist
Not if the pockets are cut right! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Hu
One of the drawbacks of play a lot of top spin/follow english, is that that very same shot can transfer draw/backspin on the object ball being pocketed, which can result in the ball being rejected out of the pocket as well
Not if the pockets are cut right! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Hu
Here is a quote of a post of mine that was in another thread on the subject. Just follow the link, there are really good referenced informations in that article.
Well...ah, well...you know what I mean:grin::thumbup:
How do you hit it?
With follow and a firm stroke. Have you ever hit a ball hanging in a pocket with top and expecting the cue ball to hit the end rail and come back up to the other end of the table for shape and instead see the CB essentially die and stick to the end rail?
You cannot put a lot of top spin on a cue ball (spin referring to the ball rotating faster than its natural roll) like you can put back spin on it. But when a shot hit with a lot of top spin hits the object ball, especially full, it stops its forward motion but not all the roll that's on it, so it will sort of spin in place before grabbing and then rolling forward (like the opposite of a draw shot). What happens in the situation I described above is when you hit the hanger full the CB now has excess forward spin on it when it hits the rail which immediately becomes draw on the rebound. So the CB dies right there and probably actually comes back to the rail rather than heading back up table like intended.
The way to hit that particular shot to keep it from dying on the rail is to either hit it softer, hit it thinner (so the CB forward momentum is not stopped in relation to the forward roll it has), or don't hit it with follow.
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Here's a high speed video from Dr. Dave showing the shot that I was referring to. It shows how the top spin becomes draw after contact with the rail, so the CB does not go back up table.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/HSV4-3.htm
You can clearly see that before contact the CB is basically rolling but because it hits the OB pretty full, its forward momentum get stopped rather abruptly but not it's roll, which now becomes top spin. This is force follow, where the CB is spinning forward faster than it is rolling. Of course, force follow has other uses besides killing the cue ball on contact with the rail, just as power draw has uses. For instance FF will help you get the ball farther back up table so long as the contact with the end rail occurs after the CB has lost the top spin and is now more rolling naturally - as in where the OB is more towards the middle of the table rather than close to the end rail.