Teaching our children to gamble/hussle

Roger Long said:
Jerry, you forgot to mention that while gambling is the thing that has always attracted many to the game of pool, it is also the thing that has kept mainstream America from accepting it as a viable sport.

Roger
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i am not so sure it has kept the game out of the mainstream. It is out of the mainstream more now than 25 years ago. Gambling has declined immensely in the poolrooms. Let's face it there isn't much Gambling these days and what there is is not much.
It seems to me that most are playing races to 7-9 for $20, and occasionally for $200.
Are we basing attitudes on what Dippy and Bartram do? They are only two out of thousands and thousands of players. I love what they do and contribute to the game but, I am not going to credit them as the ruination of todays game. They do what they like and harm nobody, at least nobody I have heard of.
I find humor in the fact that so many can make so much noise about gambling and know so little of it. The Hustler was made over 45 years ago. The thumbs have healed and Willie laughed his ass off. Bert died of natural causes.
If there were an audience for the game, Visa, Buick, so on and so on would have it on TV every weekend just as Golf is. The audience determines the money and sponsors. That may never change.
As far as teaching kids to gamble? That is already going on by looking at it's absence. Myself, I would rather be flogged than to have my mom think I taught my kid to gamble.
I find it interesting that there are far more players and good players today than yesterday but not convinced at all that they are better. just more doing it a a high level. Because of todays game and need to get it over with once we see it, we may never know. plus todays formats are geared toward keeping the lesser players competitive and around longer.
Granted, the nearby plant is far safer and more secure as far as building futures and nice retirements and that is great and the life I hope my daughters husband clings to, but life is about choices and the price one pays for that choice. many die being somewhat famous if only in our little sub culture, and wishing they had never walked into a pool room or having picked up a cue. That is just another sad reality.
Others have lived what we call exciting and mysterious lives. many of us wish we could have spent more time talking to them and hoping to find the secrets they had. How could they make something look so effortless when we work so hard to do the same and fail at a high percentage of the time.
Teaching kids to gamble? I think we are paranoid and worry about kids being hustled as we were.
As Jam said, things are changing so fast, the Hustlers are far and few now. how much can one lose at $20 sets? I don't feel it so much to worry about.
I am far more worried about them playing Poker!
 
ironman said:
i am not so sure it has kept the game out of the mainstream. It is out of the mainstream more now than 25 years ago. Gambling has declined immensely in the poolrooms. Let's face it there isn't much Gambling these days and what there is is not much.
It seems to me that most are playing races to 7-9 for $20, and occasionally for $200.
Are we basing attitudes on what Dippy and Bartram do? They are only two out of thousands and thousands of players. I love what they do and contribute to the game but, I am not going to credit them as the ruination of todays game. They do what they like and harm nobody, at least nobody I have heard of.
I find humor in the fact that so many can make so much noise about gambling and know so little of it. The Hustler was made over 45 years ago. The thumbs have healed and Willie laughed his ass off. Bert died of natural causes.
If there were an audience for the game, Visa, Buick, so on and so on would have it on TV every weekend just as Golf is. The audience determines the money and sponsors. That may never change.
As far as teaching kids to gamble? That is already going on by looking at it's absence. Myself, I would rather be flogged than to have my mom think I taught my kid to gamble.
I find it interesting that there are far more players and good players today than yesterday but not convinced at all that they are better. just more doing it a a high level. Because of todays game and need to get it over with once we see it, we may never know. plus todays formats are geared toward keeping the lesser players competitive and around longer.
Granted, the nearby plant is far safer and more secure as far as building futures and nice retirements and that is great and the life I hope my daughters husband clings to, but life is about choices and the price one pays for that choice. many die being somewhat famous if only in our little sub culture, and wishing they had never walked into a pool room or having picked up a cue. That is just another sad reality.
Others have lived what we call exciting and mysterious lives. many of us wish we could have spent more time talking to them and hoping to find the secrets they had. How could they make something look so effortless when we work so hard to do the same and fail at a high percentage of the time.
Teaching kids to gamble? I think we are paranoid and worry about kids being hustled as we were.
As Jam said, things are changing so fast, the Hustlers are far and few now. how much can one lose at $20 sets? I don't feel it so much to worry about.
I am far more worried about them playing Poker!
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Yep, Jam pretty much nailed the coffin on the ''old ways'' and most definitely pointed out....the ''new way'' is in the doorway. Whether on not there will be enough to feast on for those newcomers to live, will be determined by ones skill and work ethic, and that comes from mom and dad and their core.
SVB comes to mind and is most likely the tipping point of this next generation. Having ran the Jr. Nationals about ten yrs ago, there were quite a few VERY talented young players that are now in their late twenties, they remind me of ''old school'' players, and correct me if I'm wrong, but these guys (cept for Sylver)would never play in the US Open because they Know what it takes to get there, and they chose to Not become ''that'' type of person or to develop any kind of work ethic. It takes a hell of allot of work to become and Archer or a SVB.
 
Island Drive said:
Yep, Jam pretty much nailed the coffin on the ''old ways'' and most definitely pointed out....the ''new way'' is in the doorway. Whether on not there will be enough to feast on for those newcomers to live, will be determined by ones skill and work ethic, and that comes from mom and dad and their core.
SVB comes to mind and is most likely the tipping point of this next generation. Having ran the Jr. Nationals about ten yrs ago, there were quite a few VERY talented young players that are now in their late twenties, they remind me of ''old school'' players, and correct me if I'm wrong, but these guys (cept for Sylver)would never play in the US Open because they Know what it takes to get there, and they chose to Not become ''that'' type of person or to develop any kind of work ethic. It takes a hell of allot of work to become and Archer or a SVB.
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So true, work ethic is vital when it comes to pool. I nearly crack up laughing when so many refer to pool money as being easy money. IMO, working 8-5 at the Flour mill is far easier. Much more consistent, and a lot less stressful!
I remember Dany medina and I headed back from Seattle once and got into Wyonimg. I was in the back of the Van Alseep and woke up realizing we were on the side of the road. Danny had the seat cranked back and was out to the world. I woke him and told him to hit the bed and that I would drive.
"No bud, I want to drive all the way home"!
"Why" I asked?
"That 8 ball was easier to make than to miss" he said!
I woke up again later as we were cruising down I_80. I sat there a minute and he asked."Bud how do people miss balls like that"?
We got into Denver at mid afternoon and he drove straight to the pool room and practiced for about 2 hours and then drove us home.
The Flour Mill is definitely easier and not nearly as stressful.
Sylver is a prime example of another hard worker. he was raised by his single Mom and became the father to his younger brothers and sisters very early. His Mom is an extraordinary woman who laid out a great core. I don't thik she knew much about gambling nor made it a huge issue!
 
ironman said:
So true, work ethic is vital when it comes to pool. I nearly crack up laughing when so many refer to pool money as being easy money. IMO, working 8-5 at the Flour mill is far easier. Much more consistent, and a lot less stressful!...!
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Pool money is easy money.

just think, you are working the mill production line and forget the 'm'. wtf do people get then? I will tell you:
ill.
 
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Please understand what I intended to say......

I am not advocating to teach pool gambling to your kids so that they can become pool gamblers as a career.

My intentions were to expose them to pool gambling at the right time, so that they will be able to handle themselves better in matters outside of pool.

My example from earlier..... If your auto mechanic says you need $5,000 in repairs in order for your car to pass inspection, it is beneficial if you have the negotiating skills to bring that figure down. These "manipulation" skills can be learned in the pool room. And they can help you prevent from being hussled.

When you go to purchase a house, are you capable of negotiating the price? Are you able to influence the seller in any way?

Pool helps in these circumstances. It makes you smarter. You figure out ways to get what's best for you.

You will learn quickly not to bet when two strangers are playing each, because you will probably get dumped. And this will help you in real life. You will be real careful when co-signing a lease with someone you don't know too well. You will be real careful going 50/50 into a new business with someone.

You'll learn that players need to post up before they play. And in the same manner, you'll learn quickly that it's a bad idea to take a personal check for your collection of gold coins without seeing if it cashes first.

You'll learn about the guys that you can never beat because they always come up with some sort of an excuse not to pay.

There's tons of things to learn. It is not about becoming a gambler. It is being exposed to what it's all about. The kid doesn't even have to gamble, he's just observing and learning.

I hope I have made myself more clear.
 
iba7467 said:
No way do I want my kid to become a professional pool player. There are very few things on earth where you cannot earn a living unless you are one of the top five people on earth.

I will add some stats after I look them up, but I can think of 100 things I can teach my children that might make them millions if they were the top five in their discipline/career. Sadly, pool is not even close.


Shane who is almost without question the best (at least most consistently winning) American pool player has earned an average of $107,839 per year for the last five years. Johnny Archer and Ralf Souqet both earned less than $90,000 per year for the last decade. Now I'm not saying that it is not decent money, but there are over 1,000 people at the plant next door to my facility who make more than this each year. My point is that these people with no special effort whatsoever will retire comfortably and never have to worry about their skills deteriorating and their income dwindling (other than the economy which affects us all).
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but do they love what they do? is there a passion inside them to do it? are they getting paid to be the best in the world???

there are better ways to make money but it may not be as rewarding.
 
Trent said:
but do they love what they do? is there a passion inside them to do it? are they getting paid to be the best in the world???

there are better ways to make money but it may not be as rewarding.
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The gods of love and reason continue their struggle.
 
Roger Long said:
Jerry, you forgot to mention that while gambling is the thing that has always attracted many to the game of pool, it is also the thing that has kept mainstream America from accepting it as a viable sport.

Roger
Click to expand...

Haven't spent much time around golf courses, huh? I've spent a lot of time around golf and pool. There is just as much gambling in golf as there is pool and just as many hustlers. But the PGA isn't very big, now is it?

You have your opinion and I have mine but pool boomed for almost a century because of gambling and when the gambling on pool declined due to casinos being in most states, internet gaming, etc.., pool declined in popularity. Other gambling outlets are a big part of the blame for the decline in pool, not gambling being a part of pool.
 
jason said:
Capitalism only tempered by democracy is the reason we have a high standard of living.

Capitalism or greed will not produce a society equality or a high standard of living. Capitalism is the most powerful economic system in the world. Left alone, capitalism will consume itself. If you have ever played Monopoly, at the end of the game only one person ends up will all of the money and property. Unfortunately, we can not just restart society like a game of Monopoly.

Downsizing isn't saying our system is bad. I'm saying we, in general, are to obsessed with materialism. It doesn't take "things" to make one happy, healthy, or fulfilled. Too many people associate wealth with happiness.

Gambling and the pursuit of easy money will most likely lead to unhappiness.
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The reason someone ends up with all the property in Monopoly is because they play till that happens . In real life you don't have to keep risking your assets .


Casinos aren't gambling , the have the rules rigged in their favor .
 
ironman said:
i am not so sure it has kept the game out of the mainstream. It is out of the mainstream more now than 25 years ago. Gambling has declined immensely in the poolrooms. Let's face it there isn't much Gambling these days and what there is is not much.
It seems to me that most are playing races to 7-9 for $20, and occasionally for $200.
Are we basing attitudes on what Dippy and Bartram do? They are only two out of thousands and thousands of players. I love what they do and contribute to the game but, I am not going to credit them as the ruination of todays game. They do what they like and harm nobody, at least nobody I have heard of.
I find humor in the fact that so many can make so much noise about gambling and know so little of it. The Hustler was made over 45 years ago. The thumbs have healed and Willie laughed his ass off. Bert died of natural causes.
If there were an audience for the game, Visa, Buick, so on and so on would have it on TV every weekend just as Golf is. The audience determines the money and sponsors. That may never change.
As far as teaching kids to gamble? That is already going on by looking at it's absence. Myself, I would rather be flogged than to have my mom think I taught my kid to gamble.
I find it interesting that there are far more players and good players today than yesterday but not convinced at all that they are better. just more doing it a a high level. Because of todays game and need to get it over with once we see it, we may never know. plus todays formats are geared toward keeping the lesser players competitive and around longer.
Granted, the nearby plant is far safer and more secure as far as building futures and nice retirements and that is great and the life I hope my daughters husband clings to, but life is about choices and the price one pays for that choice. many die being somewhat famous if only in our little sub culture, and wishing they had never walked into a pool room or having picked up a cue. That is just another sad reality.
Others have lived what we call exciting and mysterious lives. many of us wish we could have spent more time talking to them and hoping to find the secrets they had. How could they make something look so effortless when we work so hard to do the same and fail at a high percentage of the time.
Teaching kids to gamble? I think we are paranoid and worry about kids being hustled as we were.
As Jam said, things are changing so fast, the Hustlers are far and few now. how much can one lose at $20 sets? I don't feel it so much to worry about.
I am far more worried about them playing Poker!
Click to expand...

Great post, you nailed it as usual.
 
One third of our children are overweight or obese, and roughly half of new pediatric diabetes diagnoses are of the type 2 variety. In the category of "bad sh*t we are doing to our kids", teaching them a thing or two about gambling doesn't rank very high on my list.

Aaron
 
Black-Balled said:
Pool money is easy money.

just think, you are working the mill production line and forget the 'm'. wtf do people get then? I will tell you:
ill.
Click to expand...

The deal is that at the end of the day even if you forgot "M', you still get paid. Playing pool you have to still pay table time and no check. You still have to eat, buy gas, pay for a room, and be ready for tomorrow. The "M" in pool stands for missing. Do that and what do you have?
 
AimingVoodoo said:
Many/most intelligent people get MBA's or a similar degree.
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I would challenge that notion. Getting an advanced degree is MUCH more about hard work than intelligence.

In my experience, most of the highly intelligent people I have known in fact have not had advanced degrees. And I have known many people with and without advanced degrees.

I am always curious about such comments. Do you know many people with advanced degrees? Do you have access to their academic records and/or intelligence scores? I do. That's part of what I do for a living in academic medicine.

I come from both "worlds", the academic/educated and the street-smarts/pool room. I think I understand what some are trying to get at with their thoughts on these matters, but I think I also see some errors.


I am also curious about which people commenting in this topic actually have children. I have three.

I tend to be pretty open minded actually, but I don't support the pool hall or bar room as educational contexts for my children, nor do I support gambling as an academic or life skill subject for them to "study".
 
I would not dream of teaching my children to gamble
or even enter a pool room
the culture is the lowest of any i know

honesty,integrity,even common decency are mocked
the gamblers,especially the so called professionals almost always die broke

seldom does one make money without dumping,even his childhood friends

the work ethic that leads to success is the antithesis of the pool culture

i earned my way through college and probably kept more than any single
pool player i know,i traveled with the most famous and saw them die broken in spirit and finances

i can hardly believe anyone could seriously think it could possibly help a young person

the only lesson to be learned is,don't do it
 
My only son has excellent eye hand coordination. I saw it all the years in him growing up. I know that sons often look to their dad for their passions and adopt the passions of their fathers.

In growing up in the pool environment, I saw so many gamblers trying to get a bet down, using everything in their arsenal to get an edge. Often times, without even a barrel to pay if they lost. I've seen pool players sell drugs just to get gas money and yeah I've seen pool players dump. I've seen the easy money that comes with smart gambling but it really isn't as easy as it looks. While one player might make a thousand in a night, there will be hundreds of nights when he won't make a dollar. I've seen pool players distraught over the winnings at pool, go after the easy money in casinos, so street smart and all, they learned the latest and best system for gambling at dice and then poker. I saw the house raking in the dough, turning decent people into brokes and degenerates, making them bitter with the world.

I've won my share of money gambling at pool. I took a little jaunt at the casinos and did a little worse. But for the most part I worked and worked hard. I got lucky there too, making the right move every now and then and if you make enough of those right moves, one or more of them will pay off in the long run.

I saw pool friends living the easy life, living off of mom and dad, friends, girl friends and even strangers. They couldn't afford to pay for the roof over the heads and could ill afford a family. I walked a tightrope for most of my life, spending as much time in the pool room as I dared. Luckily I had an angel of a wife who put up with my passion and luckily, I didn't cost our house too much of our family's deserves. I saw myself winning and losing trying to make some of that easy money and that was my greatest fear. I feared that my son would know of my passion for pool and for gambling at pool, so I purposefully kept this knowledge from him until his later years.

I taught my son at a very early age: If you want lots of nice toys, you need to go to school and get a good education, so that when graduate from high school, you can go to a nice college and get a college degree, so that you can get a nice job that pays good money, so that you can buy lots of nice toys. It must have stuck because he received the education, got the good job, got the good pay and buys lots of nice toys. Now if only he can find a nice girl to marry and live happily ever after. :smile:

Now that he is grown, on his own, with all of his house in order, he has chosen to spend time with dad knocking those colored balls to and fro and if we make a dollar in the process it is but icing on the cake. And if he spends more on pool than he earns at pool, at least he has a good job and can afford to do so.

I fear for any son or daughter who is taught to gamble. Like Jerry, teach them how to be productive members of society and tell them that gambling is a waste of time and energy because it is.

I would hate to recount the times that I've seen gamblers that had to reduce their dignity to its lowest level, barking incessantly at their prospective customers, doing and saying whatever they had to get the bet down, lying with every word they uttered, negotiating like this next bet might be the last thing between them and a good night's sleep and a full belly and often was.

No, I didn't want to take that chance with my only son and I kept my passion secret for many decades. I couldn't afford to take that chance with him and am so very glad that I didn't. Today, he is a savvy business man, able to negotiate with most anyone. Sometimes, he pays a little more than his dad would but his money came a lot easier than his dad's did and he can afford it.
 
I just came home from a ring game, one of the players had his daughter there, she couldn't of been more than 8 yr old. The guys kept swearing and all, and I had to more than once tell em to ''shut up'', eventually that didn't help, they were concerned only about themselves, I left, too distracting and tooooooo wrong. I've raised two daughters and don't tolerate these actions very well.
 
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