Scuttlebutt in Wyoming

[Mark Griffin]

Hi Steve,

This is a tough proposition.
In the TAR scenario, we will ban anyone that makes any kind of 'deal' - but that is only dealing with 2 players. Much easier to know what is happening. (Players will be barred from CSI events also).

My belief is that once a couple of people are NOT ALLOWED to compete in any CSI/TAR events, it might get someone's attention.

We have to try and make it work and penalize the offenders.

In our tournaments, it is harder to deal with.
We have thousands in the amateur events and hundreds in the pro events. I don't think the issue is the amateur events.

The pro players need to act like pros. If we catch anyone throwing a game or making obvious 'deals' there will be consequences.

I am not going into specific details because I don't want this to be a trick question.

I wish I had the answer, but I don't. But the players need to be on notice that penalties will be handed out - up to forfeiture of the prize and no participation in future events.

We will do everything we can to stop any deals if they have any effect on the outcome. There is no incentive to play your best if the money has already be figured out.

That will not be acceptable - and if discovered, the players will be severely penalized.

That is the best I can do right now.

Mark Griffin

Mark -

How are you going to stop it from happening? As a tournament promoter/owner - are you going to bar people that chop? Are you going to bar people that dump? Are you going to distance yourself from this behavior and not let these players play in your events?

 

[watchez]

Good Luck Mark.

TAR has done great in policing their matches.

There have been issues with Amateur events but I can talk to you about that in Vega$ if you like.

Pool has no governing body - no policing agency. A football coach loses his job for hanging out with a girl (who was of age) but half his age. Big deal. Imagine if pool was put to the public scrutiny as other sports. Imagine if there were suspensions, bans. Especially if they involved things that were outside of strictly tournaments. Think about what goes on during the DCC.

Again, all I can say is good luck. At least you don't have to worry about it causing you any grey hairs. Start cloning a few of the good guys.

 

[itsfroze]

" We will do anything we can to stop any deals if they have any effect on the out come."
I'm not trying to be a wise guy or anything like that but that statement sounds like you're all ready hedging. I hope not, maybe I'm reading this wrong.
Shouldn't there just be no deals at all so no one has to decide if they have an effect on the out come or not. All I'm saying is that any kind of deals seems like a slippery slope.
I know you guys are trying to do the right thing and I wish for the best.

 

[Maniac]

This kind of crap really gets my blood flowing - and is just another nail in the coffin of American Professional Pool.

American Professional Pool's coffin doesn't need any more nails. It just needs to be put in the hole and covered with dirt. It ain't dyin', it's DEAD.

They (professional poolplayers) have been committing suicide for years. The APB was the last shot fired as far as I'm concerned.

Maniac (long live amateur pool!!!)

 

[ShootingArts]

I'm a Zero Fan

I'm a Zero fan, Zero Mostel that is. After watching The Producers through three repeats I had a great idea. I set up 25% savers between my horse and everybody I thought had a decent chance of cashing.

Best I have ever seen my horse play, felt bad having to jar him. At least it wasn't a sh!t mickey . . . I couldn't help it though, I owed 800% of anything he won!

Hu

OK, it's late and I'm being silly. My horse couldn't have outran a three legged shetland pony!

 

[The Renfro]

Hi Steve,

This is a tough proposition.
In the TAR scenario, we will ban anyone that makes any kind of 'deal' - but that is only dealing with 2 players. Much easier to know what is happening. (Players will be barred from CSI events also).

My belief is that once a couple of people are NOT ALLOWED to compete in any CSI/TAR events, it might get someone's attention.

We have to try and make it work and penalize the offenders.

In our tournaments, it is harder to deal with.
We have thousands in the amateur events and hundreds in the pro events. I don't think the issue is the amateur events.

The pro players need to act like pros. If we catch anyone throwing a game or making obvious 'deals' there will be consequences.

I am not going into specific details because I don't want this to be a trick question.

I wish I had the answer, but I don't. But the players need to be on notice that penalties will be handed out - up to forfeiture of the prize and no participation in future events.

We will do everything we can to stop any deals if they have any effect on the outcome. There is no incentive to play your best if the money has already be figured out.

That will not be acceptable - and if discovered, the players will be severely penalized.

That is the best I can do right now.

Mark Griffin

Mark as far as I am concerned at this point the ABP and BCA are mute points.... You and the other promoters are all that stands between a pro tour and the extinction of the sport for the men....

I know there are politics... I know there is history... but if the 4-5 main promoters don't come to an agreement on acceptable behavior for the pros we are doomed..... I will have no problem if CW, Raj or Rodney gets an enforced no show for Tunica , Turning Stones or the Open........

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Exactly right Mark, the governing bodies of pool have to be tough on this type of stuff..just like the NBA and NFL you step out of line and you get dealt with.

You start handing out suspensions and penalties i bet the players get in line, its gotta happen if pool wants to be respectable.

Charlie Williams pulling rank and abusing his power is disgusting.

Not only is it important for the players to clean up their act, but also the tournament promoters too. Players need to feel like they are playing on a level playing field, with no one getting preferential treatment.

In another posting, the following allegation was made:
"From what I understand -- again, hearsay -- Rodney, Amar, Charlie, and Raj had their hotel rooms and entry fees paid for at this event."

If this allegation is true, then this collusion and corruption between the tournament promoters and players has got to stop as it completely undermines the reputation and integrity of our sport.

 

[barboxbanks]

I don't know much about the Dragon promotions etc.. but I have seen Charlie play on TV back in the day and do some commentating.. and honestly I didn't even like him back then, let alone now after reading what I have.

I think a lot of "professional" pool players forget what the word professional actually means.

Oh and to add a little more, I think 90% of the reason why pro players get away with this crap is because professional pool is not exactly in the public eye such as other sporting events. You wouldn't see on the news if Earl came unchained and decided to drop a deuce on the table in protest of a call. However if Tim Tebow crop dusted in a public medium it would be front page news.

 

[spanky79]

Why does it really surprise anyone the Charlie is a POS?
A zebra doesn't change his stripes.
The only way to get rid of Charlie is to boycott his events, but we all know pool players won't do that.
I wouldn't be surprised if alot of them just make some kind of deal with Charlie.

We need about 200 more guys like Shane and Oscar but I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[JAM]

My better half talked to Haddad last night to get the heads-up on why Charlie was so nasty to him during their match when Haddad had Charlie stuck 5 to 2.

Mark said that Charlie accused him of moving in his chair while Charlie was shooting shots during the match. I wasn't there, so I don't know. I mean, he could have been; Mark is no angel. But for Charlie to call him a "cheat" and a "thief" and a "no-good POS" during their match is totally out of line. Charlie should have been disqualified, IMHO, for exhibiting unsportsmanlike behavior. :frown:

Sharking is no good, but calling people names is worse. It is difficult to know if a shark is a shark or if somebody may be feeling the heat and think somebody is sharking.

As one example, at the Glass City Open in Toledo one year, my horse was playing Hillbilly in a neck-and-neck battle to get in the money rounds. Hillbilly's break is powerful and tough to fade. Every time he cracked the rack, the balls would blossom as he'd make a couple, allowing him to run racks.

My horse's break is, shall I say, a little on the wimpy side. During one game, it was Keith's turn to break, and as soon as he pulled back to smack the rack with all his might, he claims that Hillbilly snorted. The balls stuck together like glue with a thud-like sound. Hillbilly couldn't get to the table fast enough to run the rack out and ended up winning the entire match. My horse claims that Hillbilly sharked him with a snort. :embarrassed2:

Now, I was there right on the rail, up front and close. Hillbilly never sharked anybody, but Keith blamed Hillbilly's snort for losing the match. There was no shark; Hillbilly won fair and square. Plus, Hillbilly did mention later up in the bar, as Keith was cooling off, that he has sinus problems. :tongue:

A lot of things happen in the heat of the battle. Sometimes players get sharked when there might not be a shark. As I am writing this post, Keith just came up to me, reading what I wrote, and immediately got irate and stopped me in mid-flight. "What do you mean there was no shark? He definitely sharked me." So there you have it. Two different vantage points of the same game. Keith says, "I wonder who they'll believe, the player or a RailbirdJAM." Years later, Keith still remembers that snort as a shark, and me, I do not believe Hillbilly sharked. Maybe he did have sinus problems. :grin:

Oh, one more thing. The four Chop-Chop boys put on an exhibition of sorts at the Wyoming Open, which may be the reason they each got free entry, free room and board, et cetera. This is an acceptable reason, as far as I am concerned, for them to receive this perk. :smile:

 

[ShootingArts]

No Contest!

My better half talked to Haddad last night to get the heads-up on why Charlie was so nasty to him during their match when Haddad had Charlie stuck 5 to 2.

Mark said that Charlie accused him of moving in his chair while Charlie was shooting shots during the match. I wasn't there, so I don't know. I mean, he could have been; Mark is no angel. But for Charlie to call him a "cheat" and a "thief" and a "no-good POS" during their match is totally out of line. Charlie should have been disqualified, IMHO, for exhibiting unsportsmanlike behavior. :frown:

Sharking is no good, but calling people names is worse. It is difficult to know if a shark is a shark or if somebody may be feeling the heat and think somebody is sharking.

As one example, at the Glass City Open in Toledo one year, my horse was playing Hillbilly in a neck-and-neck battle to get in the money rounds. Hillbilly's break is powerful and tough to fade. Every time he cracked the rack, the balls would blossom as he'd make a couple, allowing him to run racks.

My horse's break is, shall I say, a little on the wimpy side. During one game, it was Keith's turn to break, and as soon as he pulled back to smack the rack with all his might, he claims that Hillbilly snorted. The balls stuck together like glue with a thud-like sound. Hillbilly couldn't get to the able fast enough to run the rack out and ended up winning the entire match. My horse claims that Hillbilly sharked him with a snort. :embarrassed2:

Now, I was there right on the rail, up front and close. Hillbilly never sharked anybody, but Keith blamed Hillbilly's snort for losing the match. There was no shark; Hillbilly won fair and square. Plus, Hillbilly did mention later up in the bar, as Keith was cooling off, that he has sinus problems.

A lot of things happen in the heat of the battle. Sometimes players get sharked when there might not be a shark. As I am writing this post, Keith just came up to me, reading what I wrote, and immediately got irate and stopped me in mid-flight. "What do you mean there was no shark? He definitely sharked me." So there you have it. Two different vantage points of the same game. Keith says, "I wonder who they'll believe, the player or a RailbirdJAM." :grin:

Oh, one more thing. The four Chop-Chop boys put on an exhibition of sorts at the Wyoming Open, which may be the reason they each got free entry, free room and board, et cetera. This is an acceptable reason, as far as I am concerned, for them to receive this perk. :smile:

Tell him no contest! The rail bird is one of our own and he is almost a stranger. If he wants a fair shake he is gonna have to start posting more. :thumbup:

Hu

PS check your rep please

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

So, was a Mohel there to help them with their Chop Chop?

 

[JAM]

Tell him no contest! The rail bird is one of our own and he is almost a stranger. If he wants a fair shake he is gonna have to start posting more. :thumbup:

Hu

PS check your rep please

Tee-hee. Thanks, Hu!

I can't believe after all these years, Keith is still pissed off about that stupid snort.

 

[JoeyA]

Unintentional • Intentional •

My better half talked to Haddad last night to get the heads-up on why Charlie was so nasty to him during their match when Haddad had Charlie stuck 5 to 2.

Mark said that Charlie accused him of moving in his chair while Charlie was shooting shots during the match. I wasn't there, so I don't know. I mean, he could have been; Mark is no angel. But for Charlie to call him a "cheat" and a "thief" and a "no-good POS" during their match is totally out of line. Charlie should have been disqualified, IMHO, for exhibiting unsportsmanlike behavior. :frown:

Sharking is no good, but calling people names is worse. It is difficult to know if a shark is a shark or if somebody may be feeling the heat and think somebody is sharking.

As one example, at the Glass City Open in Toledo one year, my horse was playing Hillbilly in a neck-and-neck battle to get in the money rounds. Hillbilly's break is powerful and tough to fade. Every time he cracked the rack, the balls would blossom as he'd make a couple, allowing him to run racks.

My horse's break is, shall I say, a little on the wimpy side. During one game, it was Keith's turn to break, and as soon as he pulled back to smack the rack with all his might, he claims that Hillbilly snorted. The balls stuck together like glue with a thud-like sound. Hillbilly couldn't get to the table fast enough to run the rack out and ended up winning the entire match. My horse claims that Hillbilly sharked him with a snort. :embarrassed2:

Now, I was there right on the rail, up front and close. Hillbilly never sharked anybody, but Keith blamed Hillbilly's snort for losing the match. There was no shark; Hillbilly won fair and square. Plus, Hillbilly did mention later up in the bar, as Keith was cooling off, that he has sinus problems. :tongue:

A lot of things happen in the heat of the battle. Sometimes players get sharked when there might not be a shark. As I am writing this post, Keith just came up to me, reading what I wrote, and immediately got irate and stopped me in mid-flight. "What do you mean there was no shark? He definitely sharked me." So there you have it. Two different vantage points of the same game. Keith says, "I wonder who they'll believe, the player or a RailbirdJAM." Years later, Keith still remembers that snort as a shark, and me, I do not believe Hillbilly sharked. Maybe he did have sinus problems. :grin:

Oh, one more thing. The four Chop-Chop boys put on an exhibition of sorts at the Wyoming Open, which may be the reason they each got free entry, free room and board, et cetera. This is an acceptable reason, as far as I am concerned, for them to receive this perk. :smile:

Sharking is an old technique for some pool players and it should stop but I doubt if it ever will. I don't know if Charlie sharked Keith intentionally or not. The bottom line is Keith believes that the snort was a shark and it was, if he believed it was. Whether it was intentional or not is another story.

I have seen sharking techniques used that were so smooth, that even Robert de Niro couldn't make it look as good. That being said, I'm sure that some sharking is "unintentional" but it is sharking nevertheless.

 

[barboxbanks]

The stupidest, but one of the most effect sharking techniques I ever seen play out was passing gas.

 

[JoeyA]

The stupidest, but one of the most effect sharking techniques I ever seen play out was passing gas.

Flatulence has no place in a gentleman's game.:shakehead:

 

[JAM]

Flatulence has no place in a gentleman's game.:shakehead:

Did you know that the cows in New Zealand contribute 34 percent of their greenhouse gases today? Flatulence was so bad in 2003 that the government of New Zealand proposed a flatulence tax, which was not adopted because of public protest.

Interestingly, agriculture is responsible for an estimated 14 percent of the world's greenhouse gases. The world's 1.5 billion cows and billions of other grazing animals emit dozens of polluting gases, including lots of methane.

Cows emit a massive amount of methane through belching, with a lesser amount through flatulence. The large amounts of methane produced by cows are now a cause of concern and the subject of much scientific research.

 

[Black-Balled]

And the TD should be ashamed that he got played by the Dragon crew.

 

[Johnnyt]

I'm a Zero fan, Zero Mostel that is. After watching The Producers through three repeats I had a great idea. I set up 25% savers between my horse and everybody I thought had a decent chance of cashing.

Best I have ever seen my horse play, felt bad having to jar him. At least it wasn't a sh!t mickey . . . I couldn't help it though, I owed 800% of anything he won!

Hu

OK, it's late and I'm being silly. My horse couldn't have outran a three legged shetland pony!

The good old days of cheap track (and some big track) horse racing. Johnnyt

 

[barboxbanks]

Flatulence has no place in a gentleman's game.:shakehead:

I'm hard pressed to call Professional pool a gentlemen game, I say we change the rules to 4 sets. 1 set of pool, 1 round of boxing then continue to Alternate. If someone happens to get knocked out between the next set of pool, then they loose. I think I remember seeing something similar with Chess lol... I guarantee that would end sharking and Earl tantrums.