AZ member screwed by Bill Stroud of Josswest

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I'd suggest putting this to rest untill such a time as we hear something from Bill.

He's been around forever and I don't think a single person posting in this thread has any more weight in the community than Bill himself.

There are a whole host of things to be considered that nobody posting is privy to.
It may well take a long time for the winner to get a cue.

You just look at the waiting list other makers have.
Would it be reasonable to expect this contest cue to be presented prior to his outstanding commitments?


I think everyone should just back off.

Dave
 
Mr. Wilson said:
I'd suggest putting this to rest untill such a time as we hear something from Bill.

He's been around forever and I don't think a single person posting in this thread has any more weight in the community than Bill himself.

There are a whole host of things to be considered that nobody posting is privy to.
It may well take a long time for the winner to get a cue.

You just look at the waiting list other makers have.
Would it be reasonable to expect this contest cue to be presented prior to his outstanding commitment
I think everyone should just back off.

Dave
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Well played sir, well played indeed
 
Dave,

With all due respect to you as Forum Moderator, the only thing keeping Mr. Stroud from burying this sad episode is public repudiation. If you are aware of circumstances which have kept or are keeping Mr. Stroud from commenting, please say so and this thread will go to sleep on its own. There are way too many posters angry, concerned or whatever to let it lay. Just my humble opinion of course. If that course of action is not to your liking, pin the thread and lock it for a month or so. If something happens either positive or negative, you may decide to open it again.

Lyn
 
Mr. Wilson said:
I'd suggest putting this to rest untill such a time as we hear something from Bill.

He's been around forever and I don't think a single person posting in this thread has any more weight in the community than Bill himself.

There are a whole host of things to be considered that nobody posting is privy to.
It may well take a long time for the winner to get a cue.

You just look at the waiting list other makers have.

Would it be reasonable to expect this contest cue to be presented prior to his outstanding commitments?

I think everyone should just back off.

Dave
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Hi Mr. Wilson;

With all due respect, I think the dyd contest cue is a commitment that shouldn't necessarily jump line ahead of any outstanding obligations Bill may have but I sincerely believe it should take precedence over restarting his pool career.

He's stringing the contest winner, unfairly, imo. And while there certainly may be other factors at play that we aren't privy to, there's no excuse for not keeping the winner updated.

I still think Bill's gonna make the cue. :smile:

Your a mod and if you want folks to back off, then I guess that's what we should do.

best,
brian kc
 
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I'm not burying the thread.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't be made aware of this.

I am saying put down the torches and pitch forks.
 
so then I guess the very recent wildfires out west are why he hasn't built the cue yet or responded. :rolleyes:

best,
brian kc
 
Mr. Wilson said:
I'm not burying the thread.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't be made aware of this.

I am saying put down the torches and pitch forks.
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Wilson--

You do know that Bill posted on azb (not long before the dyd contest) that....

It shouldn't take any longer than a few weeks for any cue maker to build nearly any cue.

I'm paraphrasing, but I'm very very close to his exact quote. That's from his own mouth. So it's ok for him to mock/knock long wait times from other cue makers but it's not OK to question a nearly 2 year wait for mhaimi?

I don't think the group is marching up the hill with pitchforks. That's not the case at all. I think you're witnessing the azb group being FED-UP with BS cue maker beat-down stories. Bill handled this like crap, pure and simple. I think what pissed turpentine on the fire is that one or two other random people also posted they sent Bill money for other cues and had to PHYSICALLY chase him down to get their money back.

Right is right. Wrong is wrong. The fact that this guy is some "legend" cue maker doesn't make it right for him to stretch this out. Now, if he said "Guys, a lot of these multi-year waits with other cue makers are totally legit -- these things take forever to build" ---- you wouldn't hear a peep from anyone.

You're hearing chirps because he called out other cue makers and said their wait times were BS and made-up, saying nearly any cue can be made in a few weeks. You're hearing peeps because he stated on numerous occasions he's investing his time into playing pool (not making cues).

No one is marching up the hill w/ pitchforks.... we're calling BS on a BS situation, it's like the fifth meltdown shady cue maker story in the past few months, and people are fed-up.
 
Since Bill's comment regarding delivery times is getting a lot of attention, it is worthwhile to revisit the post...

The third paragraph starts in a ominous manner.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2791731&postcount=19

bstroud said:
I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I hear a cuemaker say he has a 5 year waiting list. I know it's just BS.

Unless it is a new untested design using new technology 8 weeks is enough to make any cue. Most of the time is for the glue to dry properly.

I have taken longer myself but it is usually for a cue that I really don't want to make. I just didn't know how to tell the customer that. Sometimes I just don't like the design and believe it or not some people are easy to make a cue for and others are not. I don't know why.

Any traditional style cue should take no longer than 8 weeks. I don't care who is making it.

Bill Stroud
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mosconiac said:
Since Bill's comment regarding delivery times is getting a lot of attention, it is worthwhile to revisit the post...

The third paragraph starts in a ominous manner.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2791731&postcount=19
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THANK you, Mosconiac.


If a cue takes more than 8 weeks, it's a CUE I DON'T WANT TO MAKE.


So, we're all chirping about how it's classless that he's nearly 2 years out on a cue he doesn't wanna make (that was his idea). Definitely no pitchforks though :)
 
mosconiac said:
Since Bill's comment regarding delivery times is getting a lot of attention, it is worthwhile to revisit the post...

The third paragraph starts in a ominous manner.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2791731&postcount=19
Click to expand...

One thing that I've learned is the importance of establishing a deadline. When you give someone a job to do, you need to ask how long will it take to get the job done.

Since no one has spoken to Bill Stroud, we don't know what the status of the Mhaimi's cue is...and we don't know when Bill expects to complete the job. Without a deadline, it shouldn't be a surprise that the cue still hasn't been made yet even after two years have elapsed. It's Mhaimi's responsibility, not ours, to call Bill and find out what's going on and when he can expect his cue.
 
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akaTrigger said:
WOW! So, he responds. But his response is about fires in the area. While that's true that IS going on, and while the fires are being VERY destructive, the fires have been going on for exactly one month.
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"Hey guys, the cue isn't done because of these raging fires....... that, um, have been burning for over 1.5 years. It's like Kennedy's Eternal Flame over here since Mhaimi won the cue."
 
The fires didn't keep Bill from being able to get to Vega$ last month.

And I thought Bill Stroud was done making cues for customers so what people does he have in line in front of the contest winner?
 
always exceptions

SpiderWebComm said:
THANK you, Mosconiac.


If a cue takes more than 8 weeks, it's a CUE I DON'T WANT TO MAKE.


So, we're all chirping about how it's classless that he's nearly 2 years out on a cue he doesn't wanna make (that was his idea). Definitely no pitchforks though :)
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There are always exceptions to the eight week thing. Eight weeks relies on you having shaft wood near the final turn which is probable in most shops. Somebody made a simple mistake and I lost years of drying time on all of my shaft wood in a day, it can happen!

Eight weeks also depends on having all of the woods and other natural materials on hand and properly aged before taking the order. If a customer wants to use his own woods or woods not in the cue builder's river of wood, don't be surprised at a year wait before the cue is well started. Want to use your own ivory or ivory the builder doesn't have on hand? Be ready for a lot longer than an eight week wait too!

Most cue builders pay little attention to how long wood or other natural materials has been aged before it is in their possession so regardless of supplier claims aging usually restarts after the material hits his shop.

Most cues take a hundred hours or less to build, some a lot less. Those hours are broken down over years in most cue shops though. When a reputable cue builder says he can build a cue in less than a year or two it is because he has already started the building process on much of what is used in your cue.

I didn't participate in the design thread so I don't know how unique this design is. If Bill had to bring new natural materials into his shop to build it a year or two wait isn't unreasonable if he told the winner this to begin with. If he told the winner it would be ready in eight weeks then I think he has every right to be unhappy.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
There are always exceptions to the eight week thing. Eight weeks relies on you having shaft wood near the final turn which is probable in most shops. Somebody made a simple mistake and I lost years of drying time on all of my shaft wood in a day, it can happen!

Eight weeks also depends on having all of the woods and other natural materials on hand and properly aged before taking the order. If a customer wants to use his own woods or woods not in the cue builder's river of wood, don't be surprised at a year wait before the cue is well started. Want to use your own ivory or ivory the builder doesn't have on hand? Be ready for a lot longer than an eight week wait too!

Most cue builders pay little attention to how long wood or other natural materials has been aged before it is in their possession so regardless of supplier claims aging usually restarts after the material hits his shop.

Most cues take a hundred hours or less to build, some a lot less. Those hours are broken down over years in most cue shops though. When a reputable cue builder says he can build a cue in less than a year or two it is because he has already started the building process on much of what is used in your cue.

I didn't participate in the design thread so I don't know how unique this design is. If Bill had to bring new natural materials into his shop to build it a year or two wait isn't unreasonable if he told the winner this to begin with. If he told the winner it would be ready in eight weeks then I think he has every right to be unhappy.

Hu
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The 8 weeks also don't factor in selling all your equiptment and going on the road to play tour pool.
 
Just in case nobody has noticed we have been dealing with a massive wildfire here. 37K acres gone and 275 houses.

We have been trying to help out our friends less lucky than we were.

Bill S.



Oh I get it, B Stroud is playing Robinhood stealing deposits from people who order cues so he can help with the wildfires. I should have known he was a better man than that.
 
that could make a slight difference too!

RRfireblade said:
The 8 weeks also don't factor in selling all your equiptment and going on the road to play tour pool.
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That could make a slight difference too! :)

I'm not privy to any inside information here. I just wanted to point out that Bill's eight week claim wasn't true for him or anyone else when building something unusual or even something pretty common that they happen to not have on hand at the moment. Several cue builders have quit lately or largely quit after decades of being in business. I'd like to get my hands on their rivers of wood!

Hu
 
LAlouie said:
iba, d
Beyond that, if the contest winner put up nothing, oh like say MONEY, then no one got rooked. There's nothing to cry about here. No one, unless I'm mistaken about the storyline, got screwed and Stroud doesn't owe anyone jacks**t, except for an apology for even starting this thing, but don't hold your breathe waiting for it.
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Time is money and the AZBilliards community, put hundreds of hours into drawing the designs. My time as a cuemaker designing a cue is probably worth minimum $50 per hour. I put in maybe two hours on the design I submitted. My son (also a cuemaker) put in more than that hand drawing a design. The winning design probably took a lot more time than that to draw. So what Bill owes is his time and materials, building the cue to pay us all back for the time he had us spend. I hope he intends to build it, but I have been told he is "100% done building cues." So since time is money he should build it or pay another top tier cuemaker to build it.
 
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