Bonus Ball starts May 30th

[JCIN]

Agreed. Not to mention they are likely going to need a huge amount of PPV buys relative to what current pool events are bringing in.

Just some napkin math, 48 players x 1000k/wk = 48k/wk x 26 weeks = approx 1.2mil.

So.....needed 1.2mil in revenue from tickets + ppv + sponsors.....that's a lot of cheese to get out of pool spectators and sponsors.

I'd imagine they need at least 5,000 people to buy season PPV passes along with tickets and other things to break even.

Again this is just napkin math. Hopefully they've done their homework and did the required market research that shows its possible. From just an outsider's prospective of what I've seen so far, it looks more like they raised a lot of money with a pipe dream and don't really know if what the probability % of it working out is.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

This is what tilts me. The math. Take your 1.2 million and add the million dollar prize fund plus rent,production costs, insurance, utilities and all the other costs of operating a 13,000 sq ft venue.

Its a $2 million dollar season on the low end. There is NO SHOT to cover the nut let alone ever actually make money. But hey....its nothing new in pool. Dude gets some money, does everything his way without having a clue what he's doing, messes everything up for a short time then goes bust and is never heard from again. Its the American way. This too shall pass.

 

[SterlingArcher]

I think everyone is missing what they are doing.

This BB is not for the U.S. it is being produced to show in Canada, China, Japan, Europe. This is where they have a better chance of the game taking off. It is a good idea and i believe they have sponsors in place overseas. They are able to go main stream tv in other countries where going main stream in the U.S. is not likely. TV is where the money is.

Ok, the question still remains.....what do they have to gain by scheduling around your(or anyone else's) events?

 

[KantmakAball]

Can't wait for bonus ball to get huge.
I bet within 2 years we see a TAR event with bonus ball being played.

 

[cabilliardclub]

Ok, the question still remains.....what do they have to gain by scheduling around your(or anyone else's) events?

They have nothing to gain! Its just common curtesy. Obviously in your world (archer) this does not exsist.

 

[SterlingArcher]

They have nothing to gain! Its just common curtesy. Obviously in your world (archer) this does not exsist.

Courtesy by far exists in my world. But business is business. I'm assuming you own a pool room or some other business? When you opened that business did you call all the other room owners or business owners and make sure to only open your pool hall or business during the hours they were closed? I mean.....that's courteous and is basically what you're asking them to do.

 

[cabilliardclub]

Courtesy by far exists in my world. But business is business. I'm assuming you own a pool room or some other business? When you opened that business did you call all the other room owners or business owners and make sure to only open your pool hall or business during the hours they were closed? I mean.....that's courteous and is basically what you're asking them to do.

That is funny. I am in the process of moving my poolroom as we speak and yes my new location is possitioned so there is no conflict with mutual businesses. What you fail to see is that trying to take on a mutual business is just bad for business at least in the billiard world.

 

[JCIN]

Can't wait for bonus ball to get huge.
I bet within 2 years we see a TAR event with bonus ball being played.

I'll tell em.

 

[SterlingArcher]

That is funny. I am in the process of moving my poolroom as we speak and yes my new location is possitioned so there is no conflict with mutual businesses. What you fail to see is that trying to take on a mutual business is just bad for business at least in the billiard world.

Apparently I do fail to see it. But you thus far have failed to explain why its bad for business. You stated earlier they gain nothing by working with you. So why is it bad for business? Except for the fact its not "courteous."

You also probably(I'm assuming, I apologize if I'm wrong) are locating your business away from other pool rooms so you stand a chance to bring in people who would otherwise not come in because they are regulars at other rooms. You likely aren't doing it just to be "courteous." If you thought you could open up a pool room near other and take their customers, you'd likely do it. This is a common and good tactic used by pool rooms, but doesn't really apply to the BB situation.

So, by all means, please explain why its bad for business for BB to conflict your schedule? (except the fact that they could put people out of business and if they fail pool is even further in the toilet. that's been stated, but its a neccessary risk an endeavor this big has to take)

 

[jpparmentier]

Some people expect Bonus Ball to schedule around other events, yet they fail to consider something as simple as the rental costs for the facility.

Nathan, this is not even the beginning of a point you're making here. Everybody has costs, it's all in the business plans. Do you mean BB will run 52 weeks a year from now on ? If not will the building be rented during the off season ?

Should a point be made that AZ has to pay for server and bandwidth of this forum that we all use ?

Taking weeks off to accommodate other events is just not realistic, and if it did, who would compensate Bonus Ball for the lost funds?

The other event promoters? Doubtful. Asking Bonus Ball to shell out tens of thousands of dollars in lost rent is not "common sense".

Let's not put everything in the same bag here. Your season collide with long established tournaments that have paid, to date, more than you will pay for the coming season. Please respect this simple fact.


WEEK 3
Sunday 16th is the Players' meeting for Ultimate 10-Ball.
Players could be excused I guess.

WEEK 8
All days collide with US Open One-Pocket.

WEEK 9
All days collide with US Open 8 & 10-Ball.

WEEK 10
All days collide with World Games.

WEEK 13
All days collide with World Tournament of 14/1

WEEK 15
All days collide with World 9-Ball Championships

WEEK 21
All days collide with US Open 9-Ball Championships

WEEK 22
All days collide with World Pool Masters


All these events have more than $10,000 added, up to $66,000.

If you take out the World Games (only 8 BB players will go there I think) and the Ultimate 10-Ball meeting day, I'm talking about SIX WEEKS out of TWENTY-TWO !

I know people are going to laugh at that list because I talk about events that caused problems in the past (US Open 9-Ball, to say the obvious), but I still think that an event of that caliber must get some respect. Barry has given a lot of money to the players for more than 35 years.

Unfortunately it's not a perfect world, and some sacrifices have to be made.

Some of us were around in 1993 when Matchroom started to arrive on the scene. They never collided with events, yet didn't seek WPA sanctioning. They were doing their thing, not hurting others. Then in 1999 a deal was finally made so that every event of theirs would find its spot on the WPA calendar through sanctioning, and it's been going very well for the past 14 years.

The same wasn't right for either PBT or IPT, who muscled their way onto the calendar and are, today, both history for different reasons.


I would honestly like to see the arena, enjoy coming to shoot some pics and showcase Bonus Ball in my pictures because I shoot many different games and events, and I like discovering and learning new things. But I can't help but feel bad for other events.

The problems that I think are going to be created by the way BB's team acts will make a bad publicity for the sport, that will be taken (from the outside) as a bunch of people who cannot find common ground and hurt each other.


I hope everything can work out and the main events I named above won't be affected. I also wish you to succeed, and the main reason is for the players to make a living.


Today, I do not want to be in the shoes of the players who will have to choose between a guaranteed payday and a $25K added tournament. They're the one who are going to suffer.

 

[CJ Wiley]

BONU$ BALL 'The Game is the Teacher'

from their website:

http://www.wpbltv.com/news14.php

The World Professional Billiard League will launch the inaugural 2013 season Thursday May 30th at 7pm PT. The entire season will be played at the new 13,000 sq. ft. WPBL arena in Las Vegas, where 48 of the world’s top players will compete over the course of 26 weeks to become the first ever WPBL Champions.

After numerous unforeseen construction delays, the entire season had to be rescheduled. With new management in place, all players were consulted to successfully schedule around major conflicting overseas events. The match on June 20th was also eliminated to accommodate the Ultimate 10 Ball Championship in Mississippi. The entire 2013 schedule can be viewed at www.WPBLtv.com.

Darren Appleton, captain of the Philadelphia Aces, made the following comment “After all the setbacks and bad luck the WPBL has experienced, it’s great to finally see light at the end of the tunnel. It's also great for everyone involved, the players and billiard industry, that the WPBL is working around international events to allow us, the players, to play in these tournaments. The WPBL is a professional organization with top class people involved and they give us hope for the future. The players and teams are behind them 100%, and still believe in Bonus Ball, as this is the best opportunity for pool to gain worldwide respect and recognition.”

All twelve of the WPBL teams will participate in the opening week, giving the league the opportunity to showcase its diverse roster of international players. The opening match of the season will pit the New York Pride against the Atlanta Scorpions, where Hall of Fame players Johnny Archer and Earl Strickland with settle their recent rivalry on the table.

Each of the 156 matches will be broadcast live at www.WPBLtv.com in HD. The first match of each week, broadcast every Thursday at 7PM PT, will be aired FREE. All other matches will be broadcast live in Pay-Per-View, where package deals offer matches as low as $1.25 each.

With the start of the league’s season only a few short weeks away, the WPBL will continue to make frequent announcements. Please continue to follow the WPBL for additional updates:




I wonder if the players will be mic'd

Succeed of fail I'm looking forward to watching -- GL guys!

This is exciting, finally some positive news for the world of professional pool.....I will be watching and rooting them on in every way, shape and form to produce a world class presentation of pocket billiards.

BONU$ BALL 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[cabilliardclub]

Apparently I do fail to see it. But you thus far have failed to explain why its bad for business. You stated earlier they gain nothing by working with you. So why is it bad for business? Except for the fact its not "courteous."

You also probably(I'm assuming, I apologize if I'm wrong) are locating your business away from other pool rooms so you stand a chance to bring in people who would otherwise not come in because they are regulars at other rooms. If you thought you could open up a pool room near other and take their customers, you'd likely do it. This is a common and good tactic used by pool rooms, but doesn't really apply to the BB situation.

So, by all means, please explain why its bad for business for BB to conflict your schedule? (except the fact that they could put people out of business and if they fail pool is even further in the toilet. that's been stated, but its a neccessary risk an endeavor this big has to take)

you are making me tired. Stop assuming. You are way off. My business is the best it has ever been.

If you can not figure out how the schedule conflict is bad business then I am wasting my time with you.

Thank you for the conversation though.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Nathan, this is not even the beginning of a point you're making here. Everybody has costs, it's all in the business plans. Do you mean BB will run 52 weeks a year from now on ? If not will the building be rented during the off season ?

Should a point be made that AZ has to pay for server and bandwidth of this forum that we all use ?




Let's not put everything in the same bag here. Your season collide with long established tournaments that have paid, to date, more than you will pay for the coming season. Please respect this simple fact.


WEEK 3
Sunday 16th is the Players' meeting for Ultimate 10-Ball.
Players could be excused I guess.

WEEK 8
All days collide with US Open One-Pocket.

WEEK 9
All days collide with US Open 8 & 10-Ball.

WEEK 10
All days collide with World Games.

WEEK 13
All days collide with World Tournament of 14/1

WEEK 15
All days collide with World 9-Ball Championships

WEEK 21
All days collide with US Open 9-Ball Championships

WEEK 22
All days collide with World Pool Masters


All these events have more than $10,000 added, up to $66,000.

If you take out the World Games (only 8 BB players will go there I think) and the Ultimate 10-Ball meeting day, I'm talking about SIX WEEKS out of TWENTY-TWO !

I know people are going to laugh at that list because I talk about events that caused problems in the past (US Open 9-Ball, to say the obvious), but I still think that an event of that caliber must get some respect. Barry has given a lot of money to the players for more than 35 years.




Some of us were around in 1993 when Matchroom started to arrive on the scene. They never collided with events, yet didn't seek WPA sanctioning. They were doing their thing, not hurting others. Then in 1999 a deal was finally made so that every event of theirs would find its spot on the WPA calendar through sanctioning, and it's been going very well for the past 14 years.

The same wasn't right for either PBT or IPT, who muscled their way onto the calendar and are, today, both history for different reasons.


I would honestly like to see the arena, enjoy coming to shoot some pics and showcase Bonus Ball in my pictures because I shoot many different games and events, and I like discovering and learning new things. But I can't help but feel bad for other events.

The problems that I think are going to be created by the way BB's team acts will make a bad publicity for the sport, that will be taken (from the outside) as a bunch of people who cannot find common ground and hurt each other.


I hope everything can work out and the main events I named above won't be affected. I also wish you to succeed, and the main reason is for the players to make a living.


Today, I do not want to be in the shoes of the players who will have to choose between a guaranteed payday and a $25K added tournament. They're the one who are going to suffer.

Should the NFL let their players play arena football and adjust their schedule around it?

It doesn't hurt the image of any other sport that one single promotion runs the show and doesn't care about anyone else......why is pool different?

If I open a retail shoe store, should I only open my shoe store when the others are closed? I should work around their schedule since they were around first??

 

[SterlingArcher]

you are making me tired. Stop assuming. You are way off. My business is the best it has ever been.

If you can not figure out how the schedule conflict is bad business then I am wasting my time with you.

Thank you for the conversation though.

I guess its easier to walk away than actually explain how its "obviously" bad for business......

You've stated previously they have NOTHING to gain by working with you, yet you are still saying its bad for business without the first fact or explanation to back it up. I'm simply asking you to explain yourself instead of just claiming its bad for business.

The real issue here is its bad for YOUR business, not theirs. The players will be getting paid to play BB during the scheduling conflict, but the other promotions will suffer in their absence. This is to be expected when most people are just running an event here and there, and the competition is running an entire season.

 

[cabilliardclub]

Should the NFL let their players play arena football and adjust their schedule around it?

It doesn't hurt the image of any other sport that one single promotion runs the show and doesn't care about anyone else......why is pool different?

If I open a retail shoe store, should I only open my shoe store when the others are closed? I should work around their schedule since they were around first??

I am curios to know who SterlingArcher is. Seems to me you might be connected to BB. Yet I am assuming and I just told you not to so my bad

 

[SterlingArcher]

I am curios to know who SterlingArcher is. Seems to me you might be connected to BB. Yet I am assuming and I just told you not to so my bad

Apparently you missed all the posts where I said BB will probably not succeed financially. I personally do not like the product.

That doesn't change the fact that you want everyone to hold hands and work together.....yet every other successful sport has done exactly the opposite.

Hell, its actually a crime for some businesses to work with each other. I.E. anti-trust laws.

 

[nathandumoulin]

I'm talking about SIX WEEKS out of TWENTY-TWO !

We asked the players which events they wished to attend, and scheduled around most of them (6 out of 10). Everyone thinks we're trying to crush promoters, but given the fact that we can't schedule off weeks, we're working much harder to support other events than anyone gives us credit for. Here's a corrected list:

WEEK 1-2
False. We scheduled around the WTBC for all players who were planning to attend (now cancelled)

WEEK 3
False. UTBC. This is being resolved as we speak.

WEEK 8
Correct. It's local, so it's unavoidable.

WEEK 9
Correct. It's local, so it's unavoidable.

WEEK 10
False. All players who wish to attend have had their teams scheduled off from 4 games down to 1, and for all but 2 players, the conflict has been eliminated completely.

WEEK 13
False. All players who are attending the 14.1 have been scheduled off that week.

WEEK 15
False. All players who are attending the W9BC have been scheduled off that week.

WEEK 21
Correct. Some even requested the conflict to motivate them not to attend.

WEEK 22
Correct. This was our final week of the season, and thus unrealistic to schedule around.

WEEK ??
False. World Cup of Pool, where we talked to Matchroom and scheduled off the players who may attend.

 

[bfdlad]

Not all businesses fight against each other. BB has hurt me to this point and so I should be against them in all aspects but as I have said before I do want them to do well. I also am hesitant in ALMOST agreeing that they are putting up the money and can do what they want alsthough I think there has to be a different way. I can also see that for what I can gather as to what they are trying to do, a weekly show at the same time everyweek without interuption is the right way to do it. Thats why the tonight show is on at the same time everyday or the big sitcoms are on at the same time. They want to become part of your weekly calender. Still there has to be a better way to do it. I don't know 100% that there is because I have not put enough thought into all the aspects.
Just to go back to pool rooms fighting. I have booked exhibition tours in small towns where there were only 2 pool rooms. I expect conflict but in some cases the first pool room owner I call will ask if I called ABC Billiards yet. I tell them no and they tell me they are going to talk to them about it. They call the other pool room and see what they have going on at that time and if they would like to hold the exhibition or if they have any interest in holding it. They make sure that nothing is going on with eachother and believe it or not have sponsored part of the exhibition and helped promote it in another pool room. I know this is a simplyfied version of what we have here and isn't at cut and dry and the whole pool biz but just saying that not everyone is against everyone.

 

[SterlingArcher]

We asked the players which events they wished to attend, and scheduled around most of them. Your list is actually inaccurate, so here's a corrected list:

WEEK 1-2
We scheduled around the WTBC for all players who were planning to attend (now cancelled)

WEEK 3
UTBC. This is being resolved as we speak.

WEEK 8
Correct.

WEEK 9
Correct.

WEEK 10
False. All players who wish to attend have had their teams scheduled off from 4 games down to 1, and for all but 2 players, the conflict has been eliminated completely.

WEEK 13
False. All players who are attending the 14.1 have been scheduled off that week.

WEEK 15
False. All players who are attending the W9BC have been scheduled off that week.

WEEK 21
Correct. Some even requested the conflict to motivate them not to attend.

WEEK 22
This was our final week of the season, and thus unrealistic to schedule around. We did however talk to Matchroom about this and scheduled around the World Cup of Pool.

If this is in fact the case(no reason it shouldn't be)....anyone who stands to lose business or is mad BB didn't work around things, needs to look at the players. If they were asked which events they wanted and not enough of them chose a particular event.....guess what, they aren't that interested in your event. At least not enough to mention it to BB management.

 

[jpparmentier]

Should the NFL let their players play arena football and adjust their schedule around it?

It doesn't hurt the image of any other sport that one single promotion runs the show and doesn't care about anyone else......why is pool different?

If I open a retail shoe store, should I only open my shoe store when the others are closed? I should work around their schedule since they were around first??

This is different. We're talking about having the equivalent of two leagues in the same sport. I'm not mentioning any regional tours/tournaments here.

I've worked in the professional tennis industry long enough to know about scheduling conflicts, appearance fees, cancellations with press conferences and millions of dollars at stake. I won't go into details because clearly you're not talking from experience but just from watching ESPN News. I happen to know how people get hurt from the inside, it's never any fun.


What I'm saying is that a lot of players will chose to play big, trademark events like Matchroom's, CSI's, and that will hurt Bonus Ball too.

For example, World Pool Masters is a guaranteed $1,500 and a possible $20,000 in a week-end.


I'm just saying, with the World 10-Ball cancellation today and Bonus Ball having a 6-month delay for its launch, it's getting really tough being a pool player these days.

Good luck guys;

 

[Celtic]

All I can say is that Bonus Ball/WPBL must know something that non of us know. I have said this to some of the pro players that I know personally because I just can't see how this is going to work. I am no marketing genius of businessman tycoon that can understand or unravel the mystery I see with the WPBL but from the outside I just don't get how they make money.

If (and this is a gigantic huge IF) they could get the Las Vegas casino sports books to take action on, and support the Bonus Ball action, showing the matches in the casino books and promoting the betting on them while people also bet the horses and other sporting events that could go a LONG way to generating viewers and interest and may give them some down the road sponsorship options (The Las Vegas Dice turn into the Las Vegas Legionaires, sponsors by Caesars Entertainment Corp and thus putting alot of money in, in return for advertising time, banners, and possibly hosting a match or two in one of their own casinos.

Ailine companies are also a huge possibility for a sponsorship deal, they have close connections to Las Vegas and could very easily work in a very positive ad campiagn linked to bonus ball IF it was to start generating significant viewership. They link in nicely to the casinos as well. Beer or liqour companies also could link into the action nicely.

I think it Bonus Ball has any hope of surviving it better link in very closely to Las Vegas, push the fact they are there, show shots of the strip in the promo's and intros to each match (From fabulous Las Vegas... blah blah blah) you know the spiel. This match brought to you by "name sponsor here" who send in their "name of their team here" showing awesome shots of a Las Vegas casino, people winning massive amounts of money while partying it up and getting served drinks by stunning looking stewardesses, against soandso airlines own "name of team here, while showing some awesome pick of a 747 taking off from some awesome resort paradise, then showing some smoking hot model/pretending to be a stewardess in a mini skirt and low cut blouse serving some guy in first class a double scotch on the rocks.

IMO that is a model that "might" actually work. It actually links in to the whole "team" part of the bonus ball theme nicely. TBH I think the cities the teams are associated with is a wasted opportunity/needs to be changed, as sponsors start to support teams the cities should be replaced by the companies that sponsor them, so the Las Vegas Dice instead become Caesars Legionaires, the whole city thing is wiped right out. The Atlanta Scorpions become the United Scorpions or the Delta Scorpions, ect...