The construction issues may have caused a 10 footer to not be possible. But, insisting diamond is inflexible I find hard to believe!!!
Kd
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Pro Pool players courting disaster
- Thread starter jay helfert
- Start date
Kd
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There's no point in even having this discussion if you're just going to make assumptions that go directly against everything I say.
I can't wait - and forgive me for singling out two players, it is meant as no offense to anyone but it could be anyone - when Johnny Archer, looks at his past resume, looks that he is a BCA Hall of Famer, looks that he has a 80% winning percentage at Bonus Ball and thinks to himself, why I am getting paid the same each week as Hunter Lombardo who is winning 35% of his matches. No sport has ever been successful on socialism.
Beyond that, with the history of pool and the history of this Bonus Ball group, if I were the players I would ask to see 10 weeks of my pay escrowed. There is going to have to be a David Copperfield moment in all this Bonus Ball stuff so they can show the idiots like me how they plan to get any ROI.
And Bonus Ball should have gone with Diamond and Mark Griffin just on the agreement that they get their mailing/email list. 60,000 pool fans are an audience I'd be interested in. But again, I'm an idiot so I'm sure they are going to show us something no one knows about.
When is it suppose to start? A week. They are gonna have to do some quick pressing up to get any results from the early weeks.
Beyond that, with the history of pool and the history of this Bonus Ball group, if I were the players I would ask to see 10 weeks of my pay escrowed. There is going to have to be a David Copperfield moment in all this Bonus Ball stuff so they can show the idiots like me how they plan to get any ROI.
And Bonus Ball should have gone with Diamond and Mark Griffin just on the agreement that they get their mailing/email list. 60,000 pool fans are an audience I'd be interested in. But again, I'm an idiot so I'm sure they are going to show us something no one knows about.
When is it suppose to start? A week. They are gonna have to do some quick pressing up to get any results from the early weeks.
Dude, you make NO sense. Why would BB pay $10k for something they were not told about or ever agree to? If your mortgage company sent you a bill for an extra $10k would you suck it up and pay it?
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Nathan, you were not privy to the conversations between Greg and Larry. FYI Larry WANTED the ten foot table for the TV table. He liked the idea of the pros playing on the larger table. You and Larry need to get your story straight, but it's always easier to make it up as you go along.
P.S. Confirmation from Greg that ELEVEN tables were delivered to Las Vegas, specifically for Bonus Ball, ten 9 footers and one 10 footer.
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Telling me I wasnt part of the conversation and should get my story straight, logically implies that you were in the conversation yourself.
So you're saying you we're on the phone during this conversation?
Telling me I wasnt part of the conversation and should get my story straight, logically implies that you were in the conversation yourself.
So you're saying you we're on the phone during this conversation?
Neither one of us were. Greg informed of the deal he had made with Larry early on and said that a 10' table would be used in the TV arena, and it was Larry's choice to do that. That's the only reason they shipped one out there. It wasn't sent for looks alone.
I will say categorically that someone is lying on this one and it isn't Greg!
I have it on good authority that the reason the Seminoles pulled out of pool for now was simply due to a change in chief that doesn't like pool and that they will be back when a new chief is elected.
A few thoughts...
First - making money on pro tournaments is not happening in the current environment. God bless anyone who tries but I've seen the balance sheet from some of these events and people just don't appreciate the costs - and too many people seem to think there is all this money being made "off them" which creates animosity and problems that ultimately splinter the community and lead to this constant churn of new ideas that never seem to pan out. Hope springs eternal but I don't see it improving unless there is much bigger money involved - which brings me to...
Second - if the Pros truly want a great tour with money and sponsors they have to come together under some form of joint agreement and act like professionals. As long as it is every man for himself no company with real money is going to risk their name, money or reputation hoping the pros will show up - and hoping they will behave in a way that makes it good business for everyone.
Third - who wins in the current system? Do that many pros really want pool to turn into a highly funded sport like golf? If that kind of money were available players would come out of the woodwork and competition would get much more difficult. I think a lot of these guys are happy with the status quo - making money gambling with backers covering so they have no risk.
Craig
First - making money on pro tournaments is not happening in the current environment. God bless anyone who tries but I've seen the balance sheet from some of these events and people just don't appreciate the costs - and too many people seem to think there is all this money being made "off them" which creates animosity and problems that ultimately splinter the community and lead to this constant churn of new ideas that never seem to pan out. Hope springs eternal but I don't see it improving unless there is much bigger money involved - which brings me to...
Second - if the Pros truly want a great tour with money and sponsors they have to come together under some form of joint agreement and act like professionals. As long as it is every man for himself no company with real money is going to risk their name, money or reputation hoping the pros will show up - and hoping they will behave in a way that makes it good business for everyone.
Third - who wins in the current system? Do that many pros really want pool to turn into a highly funded sport like golf? If that kind of money were available players would come out of the woodwork and competition would get much more difficult. I think a lot of these guys are happy with the status quo - making money gambling with backers covering so they have no risk.
Craig
Ill tellem..... Haaaahaaaaa
Copy that.
Considering not a single person I have talked to in the industry thinks BB has any kind of chance to survive past the initial funding I really hope Larry got enough up front and won't have to keep going back to the well.
As to the whole "Look what they spent on the studio that means everything will be cool" line of reasoning: Sure. What could possibly go wrong? Everything up to now has ran like a Swiss watch we should all have total confidence in the vision and planning of such an organization. What would inspire confidence in me is one single person saying "I understand how this makes financial sense." To date that has yet to happen. Perhaps you can explain to us all. Oh...damn...the whole money thing is where you get off. Thats right. Never mind then.
Sorry Lenny but the "Shut up and trust me" line of reasoning just does not work for me. Call me what you want, paint me as a hater or whatever but when I look around at the people asking the same things I'm more than comfortable with those labels in this case.
Greg/Diamond have been to few rodeo's, the PBT and IPT namely, do you think they might have learned a few lessons along the way??? The PBT and IPT had much better business plans than BB, IMO.... Can you blame Diamond for seeing that???
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Thanks to Jay for input
I have said for many years that pool will never get off the ground with the players making the decisions that affect the pool world because they start angling to make it easier for them personally to win the events they set up. I recently attended a player promoted event at Emerald Billiards in New Iberia, Louisiana in which most of the top pros competing in a gorgeous arena with over 50 tables who also had over 165 pool teams who play out of Emeralds and practically no one would pay the small nightly fee to watch the pros, so naturally someone lost a great deal of money holding this event. One of my good friends a local player from Louisiana was playing Charlie Williams in the tournament and wanted a time out to go to the men's room and Williams told him he couldn't as he had all ready used his one time out. Williams is the President of the Player's Assn. and was trailing my friend at the time but insisted he was not allowed to pee or he would forfeit, so my friend naturally couldn't make another ball and loss to Williams with this unbelievable sharking trick. Now you see why I say the players shouldn't be making rules and promoting tournaments that no one wants to pay to see. Jay Helfert, Greg Sullivan, and Mark Griffin are all semi pro players who understand what it takes to put on a venue, all are successful businessmen who are 100 times more qualified than any of the players to promote events than any of the players and they should be urged to try and promote more events so the players could make a decent living, rather than the players who have no following scheduling events on the same dates as Sullivan and Griffin. I was the Vice President of a 40 million dollar a year business for 27 years so I know a little about business, much more than any of the players who will probably hate me for saying this, but POOL Players are not business orientated !
I have said for many years that pool will never get off the ground with the players making the decisions that affect the pool world because they start angling to make it easier for them personally to win the events they set up. I recently attended a player promoted event at Emerald Billiards in New Iberia, Louisiana in which most of the top pros competing in a gorgeous arena with over 50 tables who also had over 165 pool teams who play out of Emeralds and practically no one would pay the small nightly fee to watch the pros, so naturally someone lost a great deal of money holding this event. One of my good friends a local player from Louisiana was playing Charlie Williams in the tournament and wanted a time out to go to the men's room and Williams told him he couldn't as he had all ready used his one time out. Williams is the President of the Player's Assn. and was trailing my friend at the time but insisted he was not allowed to pee or he would forfeit, so my friend naturally couldn't make another ball and loss to Williams with this unbelievable sharking trick. Now you see why I say the players shouldn't be making rules and promoting tournaments that no one wants to pay to see. Jay Helfert, Greg Sullivan, and Mark Griffin are all semi pro players who understand what it takes to put on a venue, all are successful businessmen who are 100 times more qualified than any of the players to promote events than any of the players and they should be urged to try and promote more events so the players could make a decent living, rather than the players who have no following scheduling events on the same dates as Sullivan and Griffin. I was the Vice President of a 40 million dollar a year business for 27 years so I know a little about business, much more than any of the players who will probably hate me for saying this, but POOL Players are not business orientated !
This is by far one of the best threads Ive read on here in a while. Got my popcorn ready...
One of the most interesting and informative, to be certain.
Bonus Brawl
Dude, the sense I am trying to make is this.... BUY AMERICAN (clear enough)... also, call Greg and talk... and finally I have never heard of one statement by Greg that turned out to be false... Every third statement from BB is false... Like I said before.. and will say again... they want to play on something from China... BB should relocate too China....
Derby sit down and talk
I am offering to herd the sheep,,,,,, all those who are interested in creating a change in the direction of the sport of pool on this soil.... Lets talk and prep for a long and dragged out focused meeting during the days of derby this coming year. I will coordinate a meeting room where we can all discuss change, hearing from pros to amateurs to promotors, financial backers and pool lovers. The point is... if we can all agree on a plan it can happen.....
Lets face it, pool here in the us is turning into a bar box recreation gathering time to mostly talk with friends where the table is just a gathering place. The rest of this planet is strongly growing the sport at a cleaner more positive way....
Please email me at cal-smith@hotmail.com to talk more about this and set up plans for the big derby gathering of minds......
I am offering to herd the sheep,,,,,, all those who are interested in creating a change in the direction of the sport of pool on this soil.... Lets talk and prep for a long and dragged out focused meeting during the days of derby this coming year. I will coordinate a meeting room where we can all discuss change, hearing from pros to amateurs to promotors, financial backers and pool lovers. The point is... if we can all agree on a plan it can happen.....
Lets face it, pool here in the us is turning into a bar box recreation gathering time to mostly talk with friends where the table is just a gathering place. The rest of this planet is strongly growing the sport at a cleaner more positive way....
Please email me at cal-smith@hotmail.com to talk more about this and set up plans for the big derby gathering of minds......
Considering not a single person knows the actual business plan, I'm not surprised.