FoxSports FS1 is coming.
Pro Pool players courting disaster
- Thread starter jay helfert
- Start date
FoxSports FS1 is coming.
Pros, Speak Up !!!!!!!
Do you guys not speak, Are you content with the payouts of the Major Events. I would like to here from some of you. What are your thoughts ? If you don't speak up, You can't be heard.
I have been doing plenty of talking on your behalf. If you are or not involved in Bonus Ball , Are you comfortable with the $ paid out in pool ? Or would you like to take some stance on this issue. I believe they need you as well. Come on, Let us hear from some of you.
Gary Lutman
Do you guys not speak, Are you content with the payouts of the Major Events. I would like to here from some of you. What are your thoughts ? If you don't speak up, You can't be heard.
I have been doing plenty of talking on your behalf. If you are or not involved in Bonus Ball , Are you comfortable with the $ paid out in pool ? Or would you like to take some stance on this issue. I believe they need you as well. Come on, Let us hear from some of you.
Gary Lutman
Gary,
You are not looking at the whole situation.
Sure we all want HUGE paydays for the players and the industry.
Bonus Ball needs to come to the plate and attempt to work with the industry.
They are putting the players in a situation that may not turn out well for them.
And all it would take is alittle communication.
Why not take your energy and talk to BB about THAT?
This making the player's choose between two events is not right.
Why don't the player's see that?
I think the player's are gambling a whole more than they think they are.
Mark Griffin
You are not looking at the whole situation.
Sure we all want HUGE paydays for the players and the industry.
Bonus Ball needs to come to the plate and attempt to work with the industry.
They are putting the players in a situation that may not turn out well for them.
And all it would take is alittle communication.
Why not take your energy and talk to BB about THAT?
This making the player's choose between two events is not right.
Why don't the player's see that?
I think the player's are gambling a whole more than they think they are.
Mark Griffin
They are not smart enough to come in here and say anything.
Hard to believe they wouldn't even make an announcement of good faith in the work that Greg is trying to do !
Greg is half way to having 4 derby type events yearly !
But they want to choose curtain number 3 and remain silent.
Not very cool pro players !
If I was still one of them I would try my best to work both sides of the fence.
AND maybe the wall wouldn't be necessary !
Agreed........
I agree with you 100% Mark. Like i said earlier, I think it is a very generous offer from you to step up with your offer. I would like to see all of the parties involved work as one.
I do believe they probably have their own agenda. I would like to see B.B. work with you and Greg as much as anyone. However this is between Your group and them. What anyone thinks doesn't concern them, It doesn't stop me from rooting for ANYTHING that will may or may not light some new fire.
I will continue support any events Greg and Yourself are involved in . And in the future i hope you all can unite.
Sincerely, Gary Lutman
I agree with you 100% Mark. Like i said earlier, I think it is a very generous offer from you to step up with your offer. I would like to see all of the parties involved work as one.
I do believe they probably have their own agenda. I would like to see B.B. work with you and Greg as much as anyone. However this is between Your group and them. What anyone thinks doesn't concern them, It doesn't stop me from rooting for ANYTHING that will may or may not light some new fire.
I will continue support any events Greg and Yourself are involved in . And in the future i hope you all can unite.
Sincerely, Gary Lutman
Some of my generation were pretty smart that way. Mizerfak did well for himself, as did Hopkins. Varner is in good shape now and so is Jim Rempe. Even David Howard came out all right. Sad to say there are many who weren't as smart and suffered for it.
Playing pool is a great job for someone who doesn't want to work 9-5. Let's face it, most of the these guys aren't inclined to be confined to a regular job. And that's another dose of reality!
My apologies for not mentioning you along with Greg in my recent posts.
You are also one of the few great people who are trying to help the pro players.
AND I know it is a donation of effort, time and money that you give for them.
Your 1300$ offer to them is also a huge show of faith to try to work things out.
I've seen it up close and personal, kids love to play pool! Compared to other sports, it's a cheap date for a high school to maintain. No expensive equipment or playing fields. Two pool tables in an empty classroom is all you need. And the sticks and balls. No uniforms required!
HELLO! The BCA missed that boat! But maybe they will wise up one of these days. Let's see, kids playing pool; hmm cue stick sales, pool table sales, balls, cloth. Hey wait a second, this might work!
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100% agree with you here!
Tell them "no" and they will "go".
I was talking about the business model is not influenced by the players as much as the business "leaders" (if there are any) - no one talks about the Player's Character/Personality being a key to the eventual success more than I do. I would guess there's 50 posts that back this statement up. I've listed the key people in my era of promotion as being Paul Newman, Tom Cruise, Mizerak, Hopkins, Sigel, and Fats.
We will have to "agree to disagree" about how to get the kids involved in Pool. My position is to make it an "Adult Game Only" and the kids will be climbing the walls and sneaking in to play the Game.
Telling the kids to play pool won't work, and that's simply because there's to much "virtual competition". Tell them "no" and they will "go".
I, one, can't advise a young man or women to play pool instead of golf, tennis or martial arts. I actively promote these games as well. I've been a certified Martial Arts Instructor now for nearly 20 years. I was teaching tennis when I was 12 and my golf teaching experience with Hank Haney is well documented (in his book on Tiger Woods).
I was talking about the business model is not influenced by the players as much as the business "leaders" (if there are any) - no one talks about the Player's Character/Personality being a key to the eventual success more than I do. I would guess there's 50 posts that back this statement up. I've listed the key people in my era of promotion as being Paul Newman, Tom Cruise, Mizerak, Hopkins, Sigel, and Fats.
We will have to "agree to disagree" about how to get the kids involved in Pool. My position is to make it an "Adult Game Only" and the kids will be climbing the walls and sneaking in to play the Game.
Telling the kids to play pool won't work, and that's simply because there's to much "virtual competition". Tell them "no" and they will "go". I, one, can't advise a young man or women to play pool instead of golf, tennis or martial arts. I actively promote these games as well. I've been a certified Martial Arts Instructor now for nearly 20 years. I was teaching tennis when I was 12 and my golf teaching experience with Hank Haney is well documented (in his book on Tiger Woods).
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I can't help but think that their should be a new players organization. I know the ABP was created in the beginning to represent Pro players as a collective and basically demand through the power of numbers that Barry B had the US Open $$. That was a great thing and I believe that this was a great idea. It seems though that the ABP have kinda faded away a little and are focused on playing pool and thats how it should be. Remebering that the ABP is made up of players I can't help but think that running a players Org isn't really what they want to do and playing pool is what they are best at.
So if all the alphabet soup of organizations just are done away with and a new one is created, one that has the trust of the players and willing to do some of the things that they are not willing to do that will enhance the whole picture for them. Would this work better for the whole of the pro pool industry?
I am talking about little things and big things with an association that is out there for them full time. Of course they have to be totally committed to the idea. and then things can be done like
* Making sure that ALL money is in escrow for every event before the event or the players simply do not attend. thei will save on buying airline tickets for an event that is not going to happen.
* Putting in place a group Insurance plan tha twould be available to all members. Yes they still have to pay the premium but at a much lower cost under a group as opposed to individual. (We know most top players are not covers for medical or Life)
* Marketing for the players as a whole, All pool and billiard magazines will be asked to have a 1 page ad for the organization every issue with a player profile. This is at no charge by the way and in return they will get access to the players.
* Players committing to charity work at no charge while they are in town for BEF, Jr's among other things. Not alot of time but enough to make a difference.
* A real tour schedule that ALL promoters would need to be in line with. For example players getting suspension through the Organization for bad behaviour or another rule infraction. Snooker has the ability and does it.
* Schedules would be organized (Here is part of the argument in this thread)
* Tour sponsorships. (Believe me I know how hard this) but if there is a person dedicated to the promotion of the sport and gaining sponsorships eventually it can happen although it would not be overnight.
* Bonus Ball can still be a part of this idea I am not discounting them. Just will be better scheduled and everyone wins.
* Organized time and appearances with the leagues, I don't care what league, prefferably all of them. This can be a fan base that in my opinion are not being brought into the mix. They are the potential pool fans.
* Like Bonus Ball have their merchandise The Pro Tour could have its Merchandise too.
All I am saying here is there is soo much opportunity to really bring it if we could get a fully committed full time person to begin with and them move forward. There is nobody who is full time working on any of these things.
No w I know some of you are already thinking "Oh here is Mark trying to create a job for himself" Well not exactly. I would like to be involved if anyone could make it happen however I have to work just like most others and that is where the problem would be and not just for me but for anyone anyone who is willing to go out and work this thing like a real job which is what it would take. Who would pay for it???
Can't ask the players even if they were open to the idea because they are going to be too resistant to put a percentage of their winnings etc up for someone but it would probably be the way to go. Outside sponsors are not going to be interested at this point in time as it has to get traction before they will listen. THe players are
always going to be looking for who is screwing them and do not want to lose control and so between the lack of funding to make it happen initially and the players not wanting to let go this is a hard road to hoe.
I do think that this needs to be done and for a player wanting something like this does not mean that you are against Bonus Ball or against Griffin or against the ABP or any other entity promoter or person. I;m Sure Charile W will want to create a new one if it came to doing it but just like Griffin they both have too many enemies and grudges and do it needs to be someone new who does not have built in problems but is trusted. Again This is not me trying to create something for myself. I just see what would be awesome and maybe an answer to all the problems and would take time and backing from not only the industry but from the players themselves. OH an funding.
So if all the alphabet soup of organizations just are done away with and a new one is created, one that has the trust of the players and willing to do some of the things that they are not willing to do that will enhance the whole picture for them. Would this work better for the whole of the pro pool industry?
I am talking about little things and big things with an association that is out there for them full time. Of course they have to be totally committed to the idea. and then things can be done like
* Making sure that ALL money is in escrow for every event before the event or the players simply do not attend. thei will save on buying airline tickets for an event that is not going to happen.
* Putting in place a group Insurance plan tha twould be available to all members. Yes they still have to pay the premium but at a much lower cost under a group as opposed to individual. (We know most top players are not covers for medical or Life)
* Marketing for the players as a whole, All pool and billiard magazines will be asked to have a 1 page ad for the organization every issue with a player profile. This is at no charge by the way and in return they will get access to the players.
* Players committing to charity work at no charge while they are in town for BEF, Jr's among other things. Not alot of time but enough to make a difference.
* A real tour schedule that ALL promoters would need to be in line with. For example players getting suspension through the Organization for bad behaviour or another rule infraction. Snooker has the ability and does it.
* Schedules would be organized (Here is part of the argument in this thread)
* Tour sponsorships. (Believe me I know how hard this) but if there is a person dedicated to the promotion of the sport and gaining sponsorships eventually it can happen although it would not be overnight.
* Bonus Ball can still be a part of this idea I am not discounting them. Just will be better scheduled and everyone wins.
* Organized time and appearances with the leagues, I don't care what league, prefferably all of them. This can be a fan base that in my opinion are not being brought into the mix. They are the potential pool fans.
* Like Bonus Ball have their merchandise The Pro Tour could have its Merchandise too.
All I am saying here is there is soo much opportunity to really bring it if we could get a fully committed full time person to begin with and them move forward. There is nobody who is full time working on any of these things.
No w I know some of you are already thinking "Oh here is Mark trying to create a job for himself" Well not exactly. I would like to be involved if anyone could make it happen however I have to work just like most others and that is where the problem would be and not just for me but for anyone anyone who is willing to go out and work this thing like a real job which is what it would take. Who would pay for it???
Can't ask the players even if they were open to the idea because they are going to be too resistant to put a percentage of their winnings etc up for someone but it would probably be the way to go. Outside sponsors are not going to be interested at this point in time as it has to get traction before they will listen. THe players are
always going to be looking for who is screwing them and do not want to lose control and so between the lack of funding to make it happen initially and the players not wanting to let go this is a hard road to hoe.
I do think that this needs to be done and for a player wanting something like this does not mean that you are against Bonus Ball or against Griffin or against the ABP or any other entity promoter or person. I;m Sure Charile W will want to create a new one if it came to doing it but just like Griffin they both have too many enemies and grudges and do it needs to be someone new who does not have built in problems but is trusted. Again This is not me trying to create something for myself. I just see what would be awesome and maybe an answer to all the problems and would take time and backing from not only the industry but from the players themselves. OH an funding.
Everything comes at a price.
"Penny-wise and pound-foolish" might apply someday. Might not, either.
Yes, BB likely received a very good deal from these overseas companies. Yet this is a small, intertwined industry. One would hope, for BB sake, that there doesnt come a problem with the companies they chose over Diamond and Simonis, as Diamond and Simonis have a rather robust and well-deserved following here in these United States, where BB is located.
It is just more indication that BB doesn't intend to become part of the billiard industry here, they wish to sail alone. That is fine, and certainly their preogrative. It likely won't win them many friends who are familiar with the industry here, and it appears they are not concerned with that, either. I always thought it better to have options than to burn bridges, but what do I know?
I will say this, BB has certainly provided us with a lot of entertainment on the forums.
If one hundred players came here and said "I want there to be more money in pool." what would it mean?
I went to the UFC this weekend and watched guys who train harder than any pool player ever has in history beat the shit out of each other for $6000 to show and $6000 to win on the undercard with no guarantees of ever getting another gig. Thats in the fastest growing sport in the world. Money is hard to come by all over not just in pool. I know for a fact if I showed some MMA fighters what top pool guys make in a year they wouldn't believe it.
Some of the best competition shooters in the world do not win in a year what someone will win at the Ultimate Ten Ball.
Bottom line if you are not at the very top of any sport it is almost impossible to make a living playing it.
Except Golf
Except in Golf..where even the guy who finished 125th on the money list (last to keep his card for next year without going to Q School) finished with earnings of about $650,000
http://www.golf-gab.com/showthread.php?1490-2012-PGA-Tour-Year-Ending-Money-List
Except in Golf..where even the guy who finished 125th on the money list (last to keep his card for next year without going to Q School) finished with earnings of about $650,000
http://www.golf-gab.com/showthread.php?1490-2012-PGA-Tour-Year-Ending-Money-List
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blood sells better than Kamui chalk. UFC is a lock, I know Dana-he busted his ass for years.
How many people play golf "professionally" ?
Not just the PGA tour. All of them combined. How many try to play those tours?
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I have had dinner with him. Very nice guy. Smart as hell and works his ass off.
I was hanging out with Anderson Silva's manager Saturday night. He was talking about something he is putting together and how he did it. Many of the challenges he is facing are exactly those faced by pro pool. There is much pool can learn from MMA.