Pulling up in the middle of a set when score is tied

The analogy between orcullo/ mike Tyson is friggin spot-on.

Not that I ever would be in a position to gamble with him, but I- like all those who witnessed his wuss move- would have absolutely zero desire to now, knowing that he may not make it to the end, if he thinks he might lose.

Sorry to say it, jay, but the Americans should pull up on him every set for a year or two. Let him know how girly his move was, again and again and again and...

For 1k too...embarrassing.
 
jay helfert said:
Yeah, Rob laid it down good, acting like he was a bad player, shooting off his thumb until the bet was made. He's a good hustler and he definitely trapped Dennis. Other people reported this move to me. They told me later that Rob got Dennis in a trap. Congrats to him for being such a good hustler. That's something to be proud of.
Click to expand...

A guy that would wear a toupee is *****in about a guy shooting off his thumb? Rich.
 
the people who keep continuing on in this thread look really bad. nobody cares about this anymore. 15mins of fame is up. you beat dennis o with breaks and bih good job. you let him out for $150 sowhat big deal. to keep going after Jay for a few sentences he wrote a couple days ago shows bad character.
 
Black-Balled said:
The analogy between orcullo/ mike Tyson is friggin spot-on.

Not that I ever would be in a position to gamble with him, but I- like all those who witnessed his wuss move- would have absolutely zero desire to now, knowing that he may not make it to the end, if he thinks he might lose.

Sorry to say it, jay, but the Americans should pull up on him every set for a year or two. Let him know how girly his move was, again and again and again and...

For 1k too...embarrassing.
Click to expand...

Good idea, I think I'll ask him to play next time too. Nothing to lose really, you gotta love the air-barrell.
 
btown said:
the people who keep continuing on in this thread look really bad. nobody cares about this anymore. 15mins of fame is up. you beat dennis o with breaks and bih good job. you let him out for $150 sowhat big deal. to keep going after Jay for a few sentences he wrote a couple days ago shows bad character.
Click to expand...

Good post.

Pulling up halfway through is clearly wrong, and whether you want to chalk up to a misunderstanding on Dennis' part is up to you, but to carry on like this is beyond childish.
 
Banks said:
I agree.. except when it comes to people that are gamblers, people who do this kind of thing for a living - like two used car salesman trying to do a trade.
Click to expand...

Dennis' primary form of income is not trapping people in bad games.
It's tournaments, sponsorship, and heads-up gambling.
Stealing is not what dennis "does for a living".

You can't pretend these are two guys with the same mindset, both on the same page.
One guy's looking for a challenge (that's a brutal spot) and the other's just looking for money.

bankoutallday said:
Creedo, when Orcullo agreed to the game then that's it, play the set out.
I really don't understand his problem. Okay he's down like 6-0 or so and then they pull even at 8.
So why not just bear down and be a champion?...
If he is used to giving the spot he must win with it some right?
Click to expand...

Rob already admitted he was laying down the lemon and letting orcullo get some chances.
It's not tied because it's a fair game that dennis can win if he just bears down.
If you read back a bit, he said the money was lost the instant it was posted.
Bighurt was just hoping to trap him twice.

I understand the reason people say "just play it out" because once you agree to the game,
it's the unwritten rule of the gambling world that you play and pay even if you got 100% hustled
and the loss is guaranteed and the entire set is a waste of time.

I just happen to think that rule is stupid. If I catch someone breaking into my car, I don't shrug and say
"keep the radio, it's my fault for not locking the door".

JB Cases said:
No way is Rob a con-artist here.
Click to expand...

He openly admitted a few posts ago that he was trying to let dennis have extra chances in the hopes
of getting him into a 2nd set. If you don't see that as a con, then we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
Go ahead and write it off as 'they're all seasoned gamblers', but only one of them was gambling...
the other, by his own admission, had a 0% chance of losing. That's not gambling.

I can't believe anyone is talking as if a guy who plays shane race to 100 10b even,
is the same breed of animal as a guy who goes around fishing for an enormous spot that guarantees him a win.
These two are not cut from the same cloth.
 
I just thought I would post this little tidbit. This is from the one and only Danny Diliberto giving his endorsement to Jay's book Pool Wars... and I quote...

" "I've known Jay since the 60's. Although he loved to compete, he became more respected as a great game maker and money winner who helped out many a pool player down on their luck.” WORLD ALL AROUND CHAMPION DANNY DILIBERTO.

what do you thin Danny was referring to when he says..... GREAT GAME MAKER ?
 
CreeDo said:
Dennis' primary form of income is not trapping people in bad games.
It's tournaments, sponsorship, and heads-up gambling.
Stealing is not what dennis "does for a living".

You can't pretend these are two guys with the same mindset, both on the same page.
One guy's looking for a challenge (that's a brutal spot) and the other's just looking for money.



Rob already admitted he was laying down the lemon and letting orcullo get some chances.
It's not tied because it's a fair game that dennis can win if he just bears down.
If you read back a bit, he said the money was lost the instant it was posted.
Bighurt was just hoping to trap him twice.

I understand the reason people say "just play it out" because once you agree to the game,
it's the unwritten rule of the gambling world that you play and pay even if you got 100% hustled
and the loss is guaranteed and the entire set is a waste of time.

I just happen to think that rule is stupid. If I catch someone breaking into my car, I don't shrug and say
"keep the radio, it's my fault for not locking the door".



He openly admitted a few posts ago that he was trying to let dennis have extra chances in the hopes
of getting him into a 2nd set. If you don't see that as a con, then we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
Go ahead and write it off as 'they're all seasoned gamblers', but only one of them was gambling...
the other, by his own admission, had a 0% chance of losing. That's not gambling.

I can't believe anyone is talking as if a guy who plays shane race to 100 10b even,
is the same breed of animal as a guy who goes around fishing for an enormous spot that guarantees him a win.
These two are not cut from the same cloth.
Click to expand...

I notice you didn't have a response about when 2 years ago Dennis robbing a kid from miami named Chris playing $ 25 a game EVEN 10 ball.at the Derby. I guess that game was ok? Dennis had a better game with him than I had with Dennis but that's ok because Dennis won that one.
 
Creedo wrote:

You can't pretend these are two guys with the same mindset, both on the same page.
One guy's looking for a challenge (that's a brutal spot) and the other's just looking for money.

Rob already admitted he was laying down the lemon and letting orcullo get some chances.
It's not tied because it's a fair game that dennis can win if he just bears down.
If you read back a bit, he said the money was lost the instant it was posted.
Bighurt was just hoping to trap him twice.

I understand the reason people say "just play it out" because once you agree to the game,
it's the unwritten rule of the gambling world that you play and pay even if you got 100% hustled
and the loss is guaranteed and the entire set is a waste of time.

I just happen to think that rule is stupid. If I catch someone breaking into my car, I don't shrug and say
"keep the radio, it's my fault for not locking the door".

He openly admitted a few posts ago that he was trying to let dennis have extra chances in the hopes
of getting him into a 2nd set. If you don't see that as a con, then we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
Go ahead and write it off as 'they're all seasoned gamblers', but only one of them was gambling...
the other, by his own admission, had a 0% chance of losing. That's not gambling.

I can't believe anyone is talking as if a guy who plays shane race to 100 10b even,
is the same breed of animal as a guy who goes around fishing for an enormous spot that guarantees him a win.
These two are not cut from the same cloth.[/QUOTE]

Creedo;

Here's the thing.

Dennis is one of the top players in the entire world.

He gambles globally.

Rob didn't just get beamed down from the startship enterptise into that action room - he had been playing there for a while.

It is incumbent upon a seasoned world-class player/gambler to know the speed of his opponent either by personal observation or via his 007 agents.

Failure to do either of those, then he goes into the match blindly and accepts whatever happens.

That's what big boys do.

He really should be embarrassed and chastised for not honoring his bet, imo.

best,
brian kc.
 
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Creedo, you have to know you are wrong defending Orcullo loke this. You play the set out and then if you like you can ask for an adjustment.

All the pros that want to get played make games like this. Hatch played at SBD giving breaks and BIH and he would win with the 3 and out. It went on for hours for a 10 ahead set and they quit even.

SVB makes crazy games with poeple. 2 years ago I saw him give a stong player the 7+8 playing 9 ball in a long race and it was very close, but he lost buy a game or two.

Heck, Locally there are guys I play with the 6 out, just to get action. I spot 90% of the players locally so I am used to it. When they get big spots sometimes they win on luck and the table layouts more than anything. I want to get played so I go into it eyes wide open, like an adult, knowing I could lose.
 
CreeDo said:
Dennis' primary form of income is not trapping people in bad games.
It's tournaments, sponsorship, and heads-up gambling.
Stealing is not what dennis "does for a living".

You can't pretend these are two guys with the same mindset, both on the same page.
One guy's looking for a challenge (that's a brutal spot) and the other's just looking for money.



Rob already admitted he was laying down the lemon and letting orcullo get some chances.
It's not tied because it's a fair game that dennis can win if he just bears down.
If you read back a bit, he said the money was lost the instant it was posted.
Bighurt was just hoping to trap him twice.

I understand the reason people say "just play it out" because once you agree to the game,
it's the unwritten rule of the gambling world that you play and pay even if you got 100% hustled
and the loss is guaranteed and the entire set is a waste of time.

I just happen to think that rule is stupid. If I catch someone breaking into my car, I don't shrug and say
"keep the radio, it's my fault for not locking the door".



He openly admitted a few posts ago that he was trying to let dennis have extra chances in the hopes
of getting him into a 2nd set. If you don't see that as a con, then we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
Go ahead and write it off as 'they're all seasoned gamblers', but only one of them was gambling...
the other, by his own admission, had a 0% chance of losing. That's not gambling.

I can't believe anyone is talking as if a guy who plays shane race to 100 10b even,
is the same breed of animal as a guy who goes around fishing for an enormous spot that guarantees him a win.
These two are not cut from the same cloth.
Click to expand...

It's pool room action, not the seasoned hustler preying on the working man to get his paycheck.

If you read the interviews and stories about and with Dennis you will find that he once dressed up in school uniforms to hustle the rich private school kids.

In pool gambling each person goes into it thinking they have the best of it. Very often only one of them actually does. Very rarely it's a coin toss.

We would have heard NOTHING if Dennis would of won the set 15:4 or some lopsided score. Nothing but praise for how Dennis outran the nuts that is.

I certainly don't put Rob in Dennis' class as a player and neither does he. The point of matching up is for both players to agree on a game that they each think that they can win. What I think is that Dennis trapped himself by not being smart and getting a good line on Rob.

Didn't we just have a conversation about how amateurs wouldn't even get to 10 games against Shane if the bet was high enough? The whole point of that conversation was talking about what handicap would be "fair" to make it an even game. I said I would be confident I would get to 30 and was laughed at. I was told that even on my breaks I would lose plenty of games.

Now we have a real-world example of a guy who is maybe shortstop level who only took the break and ball-in-hand against one of the best players in the world and who got that player to (try to) quit in 16 games. Is the break and ball in hand too big a spot? Maybe but the fact that Dennis didn't know that is ONLY Dennis' fault and no one else's.

To me Rob wasn't all that confident of winning either because if he really had felt he had a dead lock then he would have bet more. No sense in stalling around when the game is going to be toast after one or two sets max.

When it's two gamblers going up against each other if one of them is stalling then I don't see it as a con per se. I see it as managing the experience :-) I mean honestly you can't feel the least bit sorry for someone who willingly gets into a game in a room full of hustlers. Did anyone cry for Scooter when Shane shot him into a coma giving up a lot of weight? Of course not.

Had the situation been reversed then Rob would be being crucified for pulling up.
 
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There is a shift in politics. We've all shifted, and now we're diverging again. There's a rise of extreme politics on both sides. Try to figure out how politics will affect investment. That's the point.
 
Jays book

thebighurt said:
I just thought I would post this little tidbit. This is from the one and only Danny Diliberto giving his endorsement to Jay's book Pool Wars... and I quote...

" "I've known Jay since the 60's. Although he loved to compete, he became more respected as a great game maker and money winner who helped out many a pool player down on their luck.” WORLD ALL AROUND CHAMPION DANNY DILIBERTO.

what do you thin Danny was referring to when he says..... GREAT GAME MAKER ?
Click to expand...

Jay knows and has seen all the moves. Any one that can write a book about gambling should teach houseguests the way to gamble. Wait, maybe he did. It is to bad that Dennis got caught in a web he didn't spin. He should pay in full. Do you think if someone didn't pay Dennis and pulled this move, the Dennis lovers would want to stop a thread that speaks the truth. I think not
 
Since there is no honor among thieves you could look at it this way.

Rob pulls move on Dennis and gets dream match

Dennis notices the move and puts move back on Rob and gets out for $150

Fair?

Discuss!
 
This thread has become both sad and pathetic. In my first post on here I agreed that what Dennis did was wrong and offered to make a fair settlement with Rob. That opened the flood gates to name calling and every form of degradation about me that Rob and Gary and a few others could conjure up. It's as if they were waiting for the opportunity to jump on me, and for a game that I was not involved in. I think somewhere on here a few of you have crossed the line. I never called anyone derogatory names and Rob you did, using profanity to describe me. That is worthy of a ban on here in case you didn't know. Don't worry I won't be the one reporting you, you have done a good job of telling on yourself and proving once again what kind of child you truly are. I'm sure you will give us all a repeat performance after reading this.

At this point, I really don't care anymore about the original reason for this thread. Dennis is on his way to San Jose and I wish him luck. He may have made a mistake but he's a better man than most of those who are castigating him and me on here.

By the way, I was never a "hustler" in the pool world. I went looking for games and played even up most of the time. I found out early on that if you lay down you only get out of stroke. Rob is far better at that then me.
 
Since Jay neither backed, played in, coached, or sweated the Rob vs. Dennis match, I think him offering to put up $350 out of his own pocket to try to make things right is praiseworthy. Seriously.

And along with the $350 out of his pocket, I also believe Jay gets to decide how he wants to handle it with Dennis. In essence, he'd be paying for the right to do that.

As I said in an earlier post, Rob's business with Dennis ended when he let him go for the $150.

Jay offered to make it right for Rob and Rob attached a stipulation about how Jay should handle Dennis. I don't think Rob gets to provide instructions since he already settled with Dennis.

If you think about Jay's role in all of this, I def don't think he should be getting all the major grief that he has.

A little grief yes, imo, for his attempt at blaming Rob for laying a trap. I think Jay knows this was Dennis' misread (read fault) and he should have taken it like a man.

But again, it appears to be more to do with Jay's loyalty to Dennis whom he considers his good friend.

All, imho. :smile:

best,
brian kc
 
Last edited:
Kickin' Chicken said:
Since Jay neither backed, played in, coached, or sweated the Rob vs. Dennis match, I think him offering to put up $350 out of his own pocket to try to make this right is praiseworthy. Seriously.

And along with the $350 out of his pocket, I also believe Jay gets to decide how he wants to handle it with Dennis. In essence, he'd be paying for the right to do that.

As I said in an earlier post, Rob's business with Dennis ended when he let him go for the $150.

Jay offered to make it right for Rob and Rob attached a stipulation about how Jay should handle Dennis. I don't think Rob gets to provide instructions since he settled with Dennis.

If you think about Jay's role in all of this, I def don't think he should be getting all the major grief that he has.

A little grief yes, imo, for his attempt at blaming Rob for laying a trap. I think Jay knows this was Dennis' misread (read fault) and he should have taken it like a man.

But again, it appears to be more to do with Jay's loyalty to Dennis whom he considers his good friend.

All, imho. :smile:

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...

Good post KC. I see quite often where people get into it on these forums and bring up old business like a woman does in a relationship!!
 
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