The greatest 9 ball player ever.

Actually there was one that "got up",

To be completely fair , you would have to judge , several ways .
Best gambling
Best tournaments
Best combined
Best natural
Best aided
Best on different size tables
Best single performance.
Thats too much for a sport that barely keeps records , and the ones they do are often incorrect.
I assume this thread was about the 1 standout player of all time, the problem is, who do you have judge?
You could let everyone judge , that means whoever got the most press and the most recent will have a distinct edge.
You could have only other "great" players judge , the problem with that is , old baggage from being beaten , girlfriend stolen etc. and great players never admit anyone ever beat them !
Some of them will not even pronounce the persons name correctly , even though you know they have been corrected a hundred times.
Prime example , Allen Hopkins called Efren Reyes, Effrem, for 25 years , not because he couldn't say Efren , but because he couldn't stand to say Efren, it would open up the wounds again.
Shane Van Bone is on the same lines, an attempt to diminish the threat by not even admitting the person exists.
I remember being at a tournament where all the champions of the 80s were and in walked Mark Tadd, looking like a million bucks and offered to play anybody.
No one got up.
He got on a table and started throwing them out and Jimmy Rempe started talking to him .
They talked for about an hour while Mark shot and I don't remember him ever missing.
He's not been on anyones list?

Actually there were a couple of players that "got up",:wink: and you're' right, Mark Tadd was an incredible player. I believe Mark beat Parica one time in California playing 9 Ball.
 
I think there is no answer to the question!

That member that was talking about a man from Baltimore named Larry ? that played great for money, iam sure he is talking about Larry Safia, if so Larry was pretty old at that time, Larrys been gone for sometime now.

MR.Safia would be over 80 if still alive today.
 
Actually there were a couple of players that "got up",:wink: and you're' right, Mark Tadd was an incredible player. I believe Mark beat Parica one time in California playing 9 Ball.

Hmmm...am I right in guessing that you were one of those players that got up CJ? If so, I won't ask how much you got up.
 
Actually there were a couple of players that "got up",:wink: and you're' right, Mark Tadd was an incredible player. I believe Mark beat Parica one time in California playing 9 Ball.

It's funny that there are a lot of these "no one wanted to play" stories around for almost every player out there but now and again a top player shows up on AZB and says, "um, I was there and I wanted to play......"
 
Harold Worst was probably the best, but he died before he could absolutely prove it. most gamblers would count Luther Lassiiter the best, he played them all and its really hard to prove it either way...he was really a straight pool player, though. Buddy Hall did it gambling and proved it for a couple of years. Ronnie Allen and Keith McCready smoked them all, but it's really hard to say since it was only for a couple of few years. Earl owned them all in the late 80s to 90s...but Efren was always there...no one can really say. If my house rent was at stake, I'd have backed Keither with the Either. But it switched back and forth every couple of years....
 
..in reading all the posts and all the different opinions about who was the best, it just occurred to me that maybe there is no one best player ever?
Maybe 5 or 6 of them on the same top rung who could beat each other on any given day...........that is my other opinion.......

Exactly right! There is no single best ever. Never has been and never will be!
 
I agree somewhat. But I would put Sigel ahead of Earl. Earl might be strong in a race to say 11-13. But Sigel would not crack in a long race. And NOBODY come with the very tough and high pressure shots like Sigel.

Sigel would also be a 5 time US Open champion if the 2 he won before the name change was included....

Efren (having played Earl many many times as well in the 80s, 90s, as we know), has also said Sigel was the toughest 9 ball player he has ever played (even to present).

Their careers definitely over-lapped, along with Buddy, who was their equal. Three great players, all playing in the same tourneys week after week. They also had many other excellent players in the field with them; Wade Crane, Allen Hopkins, Nick Varner, Mizerak, David Howard, Parica, Efren, Luat, Larry Hubbart, Jimmy Reid, Keith, Louie, etc. etc. Although the tournament fields back then only had 64 players (that was a full field), I would say 40 or more were very strong players. It was just as hard to win back then (70's thru the 90's) as it is now.

Sigel may have been the best player of them all, excelling at all games. Buddy was just as good at 9-Ball, Banks and One Pocket as Mike. Earl specialized in 9-Ball since most of the big tournaments were that game only. Earl just had a higher speed than anyone else back then at 9-Ball, and everyone knew it too. He won more 9-Ball tourneys than anyone for that reason. No one could dominate the table like Earl. The only comparison I can make is the way Matlock dominated on a bar table. He made the balls do his bidding, that's the best way I can explain it.

For money at 9-Ball, Buddy was the king until Parica came along. They never played a money match to my knowledge. Earl and Sigel would not gamble with Buddy, at least not after he beat them both. So that's how it was back then. Buddy, Earl and Mike won a similar amount of big table tournaments, but Buddy won far more bar table events as well. He played somewhere almost every week, criss-crossing the Eastern US constantly.

Sigel never seemed to lose if he made the finals, winning eleven in a row when he reached the finals! That feat alone is remarkable imo. He was beating Earl, Buddy, Efren and a few others in that stretch.

So who's the best, you figure it out. Earl's career is much longer than Mike's (who only played professionally for maybe 15-16 years before retiring in his early 40's) and about the same length as Buddy (who was still winning up until about ten years ago). An argument can be made for Buddy, since he won both tournaments and for the cash. Plus he may have been the best bar table player as well, since Matlock did not travel as far and wide as him. It seemed like Buddy was first or second in every bar table event he played, also with 64 man fields.
 
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Their careers definitely over-lapped, along with Buddy, who was their equal. Three great players, all playing in the same tourneys week after week. They also had many other excellent players in the field with them; Wade Crane, Allen Hopkins, Nick Varner, Mizerak, David Howard, Parica, Efren, Luat, Larry Hubbart, Jimmy Reid, Keith, Louie, etc. etc. Although the tournament fields back then only had 64 players (that was a full field), I would say 40 or more were very strong players. It was just as hard to win back then (70's thru the 90's) as it is now.

Sigel may have been the best player of them all, excelling at all games. Buddy was just as good at 9-Ball, Banks and One Pocket as Mike. Earl specialized in 9-Ball since most of the big tournaments were that game only. Earl just had a higher speed than anyone else back then at 9-Ball, and everyone knew it too. He won more 9-Ball tourneys than anyone for that reason. No one could dominate the table like Earl. The only comparison I can make is the way Matlock dominated on a bar table. He made the balls do his bidding, that's the best way I can explain it.

For money at 9-Ball, Buddy was the king until Parica came along. They never played a money match to my knowledge. Earl and Sigel would not gamble with Buddy, at least not after he beat them both. So that's how it was back then. Buddy, Earl and Mike won a similar amount of big table tournaments, but Buddy won far more bar table events as well. He played somewhere almost every week, criss-crossing the Eastern US constantly.

Sigel never seemed to lose if he made the finals, winning eleven in a row when he reached the finals! That feat alone is remarkable imo. He was beating Earl, Buddy, Efren and a few others in that stretch.

So who's the best, you figure it out. Earl's career is much longer than Mike's (who only played professionally for maybe 15-16 years before retiring in his early 40's) and about the same length as Buddy (who was still winning up until about ten years ago). An argument can be made for Buddy, since he won both tournaments and for the cash. Plus he may have been the best bar table player as well, since Matlock did not travel as far and wide as him. It seemed like Buddy was first or second in every bar table event he played, also with 64 man fields.

Earl is the best high gear "9 ball" player, I don't think there could be an argument for that (even amongst the pros). So we agree on that. Which is why I said long vs short races. The motor always runs outta gas. Sigel was much more consistent (even from day to day). And even in a shorter pool career (not much money in pool to hold his attention), he has still won more titles than any pro player. Is this still not true? Now imagine if billiards would have paid enough to keep Mike's full attention all the years he did not play? Mike really quit playing serious everyday pro pool in what 86-87? At which time Nick Varner had a good year.

My money would be on the prime Sigel in a Color of Money match against Strickland anyday. Short races? Just depends on which Earl shows up. And in all other games Sigel... Even though neither are in their primes anymore imo, maybe a TAR match is in order? That's one I would pay to see. Add the 14:1 in there too. :thumbup:

Working for a living is not always short and sweet, most times it is long and difficult, and is why imo Sigel would be the better of the two.
 
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Though I offered up Lassiter for consideration I will say that I would not want to bet my life on the differences between, Lassiter, Strickland, Sigel, Hall, Parica, or Reyes.

All are deserving.

Apologies for any other champions I missed......
 
the "day of the gunfighter," in the world of pool.

Hmmm...am I right in guessing that you were one of those players that got up CJ? If so, I won't ask how much you got up.

We played two $10,000 sets in Vegas, I was flown in to play him after he had tortured all the best players on the west coast.

Fat Boy, Johnny Archer and about 200 other players were there, the pool room was packed before the first game was racked. I was certainly on a mission if those days, it was the "day of the gunfighter," in the world of pool.
gunfighter_1_by_davidwpaul-d37xbob.png
 
see who the best money player is in a true gambling match.

It's funny that there are a lot of these "no one wanted to play" stories around for almost every player out there but now and again a top player shows up on AZB and says, "um, I was there and I wanted to play......"

There's a difference between a tournament, and "heads up" gambling matches. It usually takes 20 straight hours to see who the best money player is in a true gambling match.
 
We played two $10,000 sets in Vegas, I was flown in to play him after he had tortured all the best players on the west coast.

Fat Boy, Johnny Archer and about 200 other players were there, the pool room was packed before the first game was racked. I was certainly on a mission if those days, it was the "day of the gunfighter," in the world of pool.
gunfighter_1_by_davidwpaul-d37xbob.png

So, did you win or lose?
 
Earl is the best high gear "9 ball" player, I don't think there could be an argument for that (even amongst the pros). So we agree on that. Which is why I said long vs short races. The motor always runs outta gas. Sigel was much more consistent (even from day to day). And even in a shorter pool career (not much money in pool to hold his attention), he has still won more titles than any pro player. Is this still not true? Now imagine if billiards would have paid enough to keep Mike's full attention all the years he did not play? Mike really quit playing serious everyday pro pool in what 86-87? At which time Nick Varner had a good year.

My money would be on the prime Sigel in a Color of Money match against Strickland anyday. Short races? Just depends on which Earl shows up. And in all other games Sigel... Even though neither are in their primes anymore imo, maybe a TAR match is in order? That's one I would pay to see. Add the 14:1 in there too. :thumbup:

Working for a living is not always short and sweet, most times it is long and difficult, and is why imo Sigel would be the better of the two.
That would be interesting to see (Earl-Sigel). Perhaps POVPool could do it (considering TAR won't work with Earl any more). Sigel would probably have to be given a few months to prepare to get back up to Earl's speed considering Earl still competes with the best on a regular basis. Would be fun to see. Perhaps Daniel Busch is interested?
 
The Game was teaching very well that night.

So, did you win or lose?

We won $20,000 (there was more bet on the side) in the "middle" in about 2 hours (16 ahead). In the words of the immortal Efren Reyes "just got lucky". ;)

The Game was teaching very well that night.
 
We won $20,000 (there was more bet on the side) in the "middle" in about 2 hours (16 ahead). In the words of the immortal Efren Reyes "just got lucky". ;)

The Game was teaching very well that night.


CJ should definitely be on the list of one time top players. He didn't bar anyone in his prime. In the mid 90's he was a Force in pool, especially for the cheese.

I'm pretty Efren won more money in tournament play than anyone else, thanks to several huge wins (500K plus another 250K on the IPT alone). He also won a huge event in Japan that paid 163K, plus 100K in a World Championship. Seems like Efren was always there when the big money was on the line. And he usually took it down!
 
CJ should definitely be on the list of one time top players. He didn't bar anyone in his prime. In the mid 90's he was a Force in pool, especially for the cheese.

I'm pretty Efren won more money in tournament play than anyone else, thanks to several huge wins (500K plus another 250K on the IPT alone). He also won a huge event in Japan that paid 163K, plus 100K in a World Championship. Seems like Efren was always there when the big money was on the line. And he usually took it down!

Jay -

Would be an interesting one to learn who has won the most in gambling matches.

Didn't Keith win over $300K once? Ronnie Allen? Cornbread in Detroit?

I saw a poster on here lose over $40K once in a gambling match at Shooters in Olathe years ago.

That would be an awesome list?

Ken
 
Jay -

Would be an interesting one to learn who has won the most in gambling matches.

Didn't Keith win over $300K once? Ronnie Allen? Cornbread in Detroit?

I saw a poster on here lose over $40K once in a gambling match at Shooters in Olathe years ago.

That would be an awesome list?

Ken


perhaps the guys who won gambling $$ that big mite not want to be on a list, i sure wouldnt. just sayin'
 
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