CSI US Opens, Tunica and the Ultimate 10Ball...

NYC cue dude said:
Mark, I have a lot of respect for what you have done, are doing and will do in the future. The same can be said for the guys at TAR, btw.

I love pool. I've been involved for 30 years. I've done my fair share in elevating its status. I've spent the last 4 months (and counting) working on a new project that will add to the landscape of American pool.

I understand the things you wrote about professional pool players. And I appreciate the distinction you made between foreign players, as that has been my experience as well. I choose to surround myself with like minded, honest, clean and principled people. I took a chance one time on an American player (not the only time, btw), while putting him up in my house. He repaid my generosity by literally beating the shit out of his girlfriend in front of me, and then proceeded to threaten my life. The blood stains are still in the marble hallway. I won't name him, but he's a prominent player, even on this years Mosconi cup team. Unfortunately, the American pool player is steeped in the seedy, even slimy culture of hustling (an attempt to cheat someone out of money) and drugs/alcohol. The culture has been propagated in every piece of US media, in both film and print, for decades. These players take pride in emulating this stereotype. I find it repulsive.

It was heartening to read that you haven't given up on pool, though. It's a beautiful, artistic game. We should create places to play it that are welcoming to women and children if American pool has any chance at survival.

My hats off to you, Mark. I wish nothing but the best for you and your ventures, now and in the future.
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wow, just wow. that's messed up.

well, you sure narrowed the field of who it might have been so I'm guessing it had to be Buddy Hall. dag nab it Buddy! :yikes:

best,
brian kc
 
NYC cue dude said:
Mark, I have a lot of respect for what you have done, are doing and will do in the future. The same can be said for the guys at TAR, btw.

I love pool. I've been involved for 30 years. I've done my fair share in elevating its status. I've spent the last 4 months (and counting) working on a new project that will add to the landscape of American pool.

I understand the things you wrote about professional pool players. And I appreciate the distinction you made between foreign players, as that has been my experience as well. I choose to surround myself with like minded, honest, clean and principled people. I took a chance one time on an American player (not the only time, btw), while putting him up in my house. He repaid my generosity by literally beating the shit out of his girlfriend in front of me, and then proceeded to threaten my life. The blood stains are still in the marble hallway. I won't name him, but he's a prominent player, even on this years Mosconi cup team. Unfortunately, the American pool player is steeped in the seedy, even slimy culture of hustling (an attempt to cheat someone out of money) and drugs/alcohol. The culture has been propagated in every piece of US media, in both film and print, for decades. These players take pride in emulating this stereotype. I find it repulsive.

It was heartening to read that you haven't given up on pool, though. It's a beautiful, artistic game. We should create places to play it that are welcoming to women and children if American pool has any chance at survival.

My hats off to you, Mark. I wish nothing but the best for you and your ventures, now and in the future.
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This post above is why the OMISSION of toasty from the Mosconi Cup and the elimination of a MERIT based selection process is so offensive!

Toasty is a very honorable person and personifies a good image for Matchroom and they choose to take extraordinary measures to disenfranchise him and reward others with total disregard for the ethics of the player and the ethics of getting away from a merit based selection process.

KD
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
wow, just wow. that's messed up.

well, you sure narrowed the field of who it might have been so I'm guessing it had to be Buddy Hall. dag nab it Buddy! :yikes:

best,
brian kc
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What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Amazon women are sometimes more aggressive than men, initiating the assaults. That's all I'm going to say.
 
(((Satori))) said:
Has anyone ever considered the thought, if the crowd at any pro event is small, it is not a poor reflection on the pros or an indication that they can't draw, but instead it is a direct result of lousy promotion.

A promoter who cant persevere through times when things arent smooth selling does not have the passion needed to succeed. Someone once said "an intelligent man without passion is just as void" and they were right.

Go ahead, give up, get out, if thats what you want but please stop with the blaming. Do your little 16 man thing if thats what will make you happy but I'm tired of hearing all the crying from you. "Waaaa, the pros dont respect me or the job I do Waaaa, thats why Im leaving Waaaaaa! Enough.just go then. Someone else will come along.Maybe someone with the passion it takes to succeed instead of quit. Maybe someone who can figure out how to draw a croud at professional events. Maybe someone who can put this sport on the map.
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Usually we don't think of opinions as being right or wrong. Some opinions, though--like that rotten eggs taste good--are just wrong.

Mark is an intelligent man
He knows how to talk, and he also knows how to listen
Mark is intensely passionate about pool and the future of pool

That we had major professional events last year at the same venue that had many thousands of amateur pool players was amazing.

That those thousands of pool players walked many times down a long hall with many giant posters of champion pool players--who they are and where they're from--was awesome.

I don't blame Mark for for choosing to stop doing this, but I have to say it's the saddest thing I've heard in a long time about the pool world.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
wow, just wow. that's messed up.

well, you sure narrowed the field of who it might have been so I'm guessing it had to be Buddy Hall. dag nab it Buddy! :yikes:

best,
brian kc
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Definitely narrowed the field . Bad thing is.... I'm curious and it's absolutely none of my business
<<<<<<<<<< trying to practice what I preach :rolleyes:
 
I might have missed it among all these posts, but did anyone talk about Tunica in this thread yet? I thought I heard on the US Open stream last week that Tunica isn't happening next year, because they missed the "player quota" by 30 players or something like that this past year??

Did anyone else hear that, or know anything about it?
 
(((Satori))) said:
My comment about the promoters being at fault had nothing to do with the attendance from the pros and everything to do with the attendance from the crowd.

Time will tell if the 16 man field is the answer for pro pool. I am predicting its not. I think its just an easy way to secure a payday with less hassle which imo is what Mark truly desires.

Forgive me if I don't share everyone elses admiration for the man.
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Its obvious you dont have any clue what you are talking about. Which is becoming par for the course around here so its not unexpected.

If Mark wanted an "easy payday" he would take that $100,000 he spends on non league tournaments every year and just put it in his pocket. Just exactly what kind of return do you think he makes on these things? This year at the Opens he didnt even charge a gate so that more amateurs would come and watch the pros. That is certainly the mark of a guy only out looking to make a buck.
 
JAM said:
I understand there are those who have a disdain for professional pool players, but let's not paint all of them with a broad brush. This thread seems to be gearing towards a pro pool player bashing thread, and that seems a little prejudicial. Not all players are bad.

That's all I'm going to say. :)
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JAM, I trust that you realize I do not mean to include "all" the pro's, in one sweeping indictment, when I refer to the goings on this past year.

It is a group of the usual suspects, who lead astray still more pro's, that create the conflict within the industry. They believe they are only looking out for themselves, and the viewpoints regarding how accurate and/or shortsighted that may be will vary greatly. And the effects it has on the industry, as well.

I post using my phone. It is difficult to put full disclaimers about everything and every possibility in every post...but the "pro's" in this discussion are fairly well documented. A pretty influential group.

I want pool to grow, and be successful. I want the players to be successful, too. But for this to happen, its going to take a lot more cooperation than we have currently.

Kinda reminds me of the government....sigh. :p
 
stljohnny said:
I might have missed it among all these posts, but did anyone talk about Tunica in this thread yet? I thought I heard on the US Open stream last week that Tunica isn't happening next year, because they missed the "player quota" by 30 players or something like that this past year??

Did anyone else hear that, or know anything about it?
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What was said is that if they had gotten 30 more in each of the events... Bank,1hole and 9ball that they would have met the numbers that the casino wanted to see to continue the event next year... This was according to Greg... Greg does not want to jeopardize what he wants going forward on Tunica failing again and making it hard for him to put together other events with the casinos....

I think if there is any possible way Tunica will happen but after the heartache of watching pro after pro leave Tunica to go back for Bonus Ball, when they cancelled BB that week anyway, I can see where Greg wouldn't want to make a long shot bet based on pro participation that can hurt him more than financially going forward....

Chris
 
hi

(((Satori))) said:
Has anyone ever considered the thought, if the crowd at any pro event is small, it is not a poor reflection on the pros or an indication that they can't draw, but instead it is a direct result of lousy promotion.

A promoter who cant persevere through times when things arent smooth selling does not have the passion needed to succeed. Someone once said "an intelligent man without passion is just as void" and they were right.

Go ahead, give up, get out, if thats what you want but please stop with the blaming. Do your little 16 man thing if thats what will make you happy but I'm tired of hearing all the crying from you. "Waaaa, the pros dont respect me or the job I do Waaaa, thats why Im leaving Waaaaaa! Enough.just go then. Someone else will come along.Maybe someone with the passion it takes to succeed instead of quit. Maybe someone who can figure out how to draw a croud at professional events. Maybe someone who can put this sport on the map.
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great post. promotions is tough. barry hearn draws pretty good crowds. everybody blames the players when small crowds show. in asia huge crowds show. when promoters get as good at promoting as the players r at what they do then people would show up.
 
The Renfro said:
What was said is that if they had gotten 30 more in each of the events... Bank,1hole and 9ball that they would have met the numbers that the casino wanted to see to continue the event next year... This was according to Greg... Greg does not want to jeopardize what he wants going forward on Tunica failing again and making it hard for him to put together other events with the casinos....

I think if there is any possible way Tunica will happen but after the heartache of watching pro after pro leave Tunica to go back for Bonus Ball, when they cancelled BB that week anyway, I can see where Greg wouldn't want to make a long shot bet based on pro participation that can hurt him more than financially going forward....

Chris
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Thanks for the clarification! I'd love to Tunica continue, I mean, DCC is amazing, and maybe it's because it's only once a year.

It was strange to not have all the big names there; on the other hand, we got to see to some great new (or returning) faces, Bergman, Hall, etc. It's kinda nice to see all the different names that usually get outshined.
 
john schmidt said:
great post. promotions is tough. barry hearn draws pretty good crowds. everybody blames the players when small crowds show. in asia huge crowds show. when promoters get as good at promoting as the players r at what they do then people would show up.
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Pretty hard to promote something without knowing what you will have.... Mark going to an Invitational format should at least ensure he knows what players to advertise... Then again some pros will tell you yes several times and then bail after you have started promoting and sending materials out...

You would think the players would self promote if they want to see the sport grow but that is like work.... Instead they will take whats out there until they figure out it isn't enough and then have to go to work doing something they don't love.......

The Fat man and Mosconi were 2 of the best self promoters ever.. Seems when they were out there selling themselves that the public bought pool along with them no one has stepped up to fill that void yet... Maybe at some point but not yet.....

Chris
 
the renfro said:
pretty hard to promote something without knowing what you will have.... Mark going to an invitational format should at least ensure he knows what players to advertise... Then again some pros will tell you yes several times and then bail after you have started promoting and sending materials out...

You would think the players would self promote if they want to see the sport grow but that is like work.... Instead they will take whats out there until they figure out it isn't enough and then have to go to work doing something they don't love.......

The fat man and mosconi were 2 of the best self promoters ever.. Seems when they were out there selling themselves that the public bought pool along with them no one has stepped up to fill that void yet... Maybe at some point but not yet.....

Chris
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^^^^^^^ +1
 
westcoast said:
Earl, Hatch, or Morris? I can't really imagine Archer or SVB doing that. However, I have no idea. Whoever it was, that's awful.
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Guessing Hatch. He posted on FB how he's glad to finally be free of this woman
who was keeping him down. Which doesn't prove anything but I can't imagine Archer, SVB, or Morris
doing that. Earl's a nut but in his own way has a pretty strong sense of right and wrong.

TimSmith said:
How is this man still walking the Earth much less playing on the Mosconi Team?
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That's actually a good question and maybe deserves its own thread.
Would matchroom put someone on the team if they knew the guy was a felon?
Maybe they wouldn't care if it's someone who puts on a good show.
I bet if it were snooker, they would find a different player to protect the image.
But pool has no positive image to protect.

That thread about the robbery is a real soap opera. It sounds like the gist of it is,
Dennis was broke and staying with someone, borrowing money for gambling, tournament, etc.
from this guy. Dennis borrowed another 50 bucks just before leaving the pool room.
The guy suspects Dennis did this to confirm he had cash on him.

Then 2 dumb guys somehow get wind of 2 players coming out of the pool room with a lot of money.
They roll up with a gun and bat, rob the players, then get caught on the way back to meet
with the person who masterminded this clever plot. They both cited Dennis as that person.

Then on the forum a woman claimed dennis was with her all night. Another poster says
"don't believe her, it's on record that he threatened her and her child." ...she fires back
that yes, dennis did threaten her and her 2 year old, which is why she took out a restraining
order against him. But she's sticking to the story saying that isn't why she's testifying
that he was with her all night, and says it's simply the truth.

Well anyway. I'm proud to be part of the USA pool scene!
 
I just want to make sure no one even thinks its a possibility Shane is who NYC Cue Dude is talking about. 100% was not him.

Its bullshit to make a statement like that then leave the possibility open that four totally innocent people could have their names associated with it. If you are going to say something that serious in public have the balls to name names and not slander others by association (Saying it was someone on the Cup team then leaving it open as to who).

People will say I am overreacting but I will bet money at some pool room somewhere some winner is telling his buddy "Told you that Shane guy is a dick. I read on AZ he beat up his old lady."

If you are going to say some shit at least make sure people who have no connection at all to the situation can not be dragged into it.
 
JCIN said:
I just want to make sure no one even thinks its a possibility Shane is who NYC Cue Dude is talking about. 100% was not him.

Its bullshit to make a statement like that then leave the possibility open that four totally innocent people could have their names associated with it. If you are going to say something that serious in public have the balls to name names and not slander others by association (Saying it was someone on the Cup team then leaving it open as to who).

People will say I am overreacting but I will bet money at some pool room somewhere some winner is telling his buddy "Told you that Shane guy is a dick. I read on AZ he beat up his old lady."

If you are going to say some shit at least make sure people who have no connection at all to the situation can not be dragged into it.
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well done, Justin.
thank you.
 
JCIN said:
I just want to make sure no one even thinks its a possibility Shane is who NYC Cue Dude is talking about. 100% was not him.

Its bullshit to make a statement like that then leave the possibility open that four totally innocent people could have their names associated with it. If you are going to say something that serious in public have the balls to name names and not slander others by association (Saying it was someone on the Cup team then leaving it open as to who).

People will say I am overreacting but I will bet money at some pool room somewhere some winner is telling his buddy "Told you that Shane guy is a dick. I read on AZ he beat up his old lady."

If you are going to say some shit at least make sure people who have no connection at all to the situation can not be dragged into it.
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You are 100% right and this is getting to be NY Dude's MO. Johnnyt
 
NYC cue dude said:
I took a chance one time on an American player (not the only time, btw), while putting him up in my house. He repaid my generosity by literally beating the shit out of his girlfriend in front of me, and then proceeded to threaten my life. The blood stains are still in the marble hallway. I won't name him, but he's a prominent player, even on this years Mosconi cup team. Unfortunately, the American pool player is steeped in the seedy, even slimy culture of hustling (an attempt to cheat someone out of money) and drugs/alcohol. The culture has been propagated in every piece of US media, in both film and print, for decades. These players take pride in emulating this stereotype. I find it repulsive.

.
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how bad are the gun regs in your area? just sayin.. 1. you are a guest in my house... 2. you commit a violent act against a women 3. you threaten my life / in my house...

Eastwood.jpg
 
JCIN said:
I just want to make sure no one even thinks its a possibility Shane is who NYC Cue Dude is talking about. 100% was not him.

Its bullshit to make a statement like that then leave the possibility open that four totally innocent people could have their names associated with it. If you are going to say something that serious in public have the balls to name names and not slander others by association (Saying it was someone on the Cup team then leaving it open as to who).

People will say I am overreacting but I will bet money at some pool room somewhere some winner is telling his buddy "Told you that Shane guy is a dick. I read on AZ he beat up his old lady."

If you are going to say some shit at least make sure people who have no connection at all to the situation can not be dragged into it.
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The best part of it is that Cue Dude has been pushing real hard for Johnny to tell the real story about the money at the Open but then wants to go all super secret on this.... Spill the beans Randy. Sure, you'll make one player look bad (deservedly), but right now you're casting a black shadow on all of the other players.
 
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