What Would You Do - The Push Out

[peteypooldude]

Ok,at first glance my instinct if I was at the table would be to push somewhere in A in my reposted pic. The plan here is to dare the opponent to make the one AND get on the 2 right. The closer to the rail the better,limiting their options with the cue ball,to make it tougher.

If it gets passed back,the same safety as Tate would be my 1st choice as well,but if I'm in stroke,I'm shooting the one if it goes.

I also see shooting the 7,and putting it as close to B as possible. It makes the safe tougher,but I'm prepared if they pass it back.

If I'm looking at using the 4 somehow,I'm gonna kick it and try to leave the rock at C and try to get the cue ball to the end rail,and if I hit it perfect it winds up at D or E.

I also like the idea of using the 5,or maybe even the 9 and try to get to D or E that way. Also at D and E,you can put the 5 OR whitey there.

Pushing for a jumpshot behind the 5 isn't a new concept to me,but not one I see regularly,so I'd be impressed if my opponent chose this. I'd also take the shot myself,because if he's really confident enough with his jump cue skill to push there,I can't let him beat me to it,and I handle my jump cue pretty well too :wink:.

You can also shoot the 8 and stick the cue ball and try to leave the 8 at F.

I've seen a few guys that would try and jump if you simply lagged to G.

I'd also like to hear what the OP did,and yes if someone pushed to where Beiber said he would have,yeah I'm swinging too . Tommy D.

That box is where I was referring to when I posted on page two. My reason is posted there also

 

[Island Drive]

Allot would depend on the Score but

I'd bump the seven and leave em only the ability to clip the one. By moving the seven your also making the seven to the eight ball pattern slightly more difficult. If I was way ahead in score and my opponent was No threat to get back into the match, I'd possibly roll to the end foot rail and give em a long straight in.

 

[alphadog]

Call me crazy, but I would probably go for the 2-rail hit on the 1-ball, using heavy right and a firm hit. It's a shot I practice--i.e., sending the CB two rails and to the pocket that's in the bottom left of the picture. Hit firm, some good separation is likely to result. Of course, I'd probably hit the 1 and then scratch off the 2 in the side.

I agree except-call push first-tap whitey-and see if I get to kick.

Most people I play know I kick good-so they probably try something.

 

[CreeDo]

Tate and I are on the same page more or less. I'd be a hair more aggressive and try to
roll so that the 10-ball partially blocked their view of the 1.

If it leaks out and they can see the whole ball... OK, good luck firing that long straight-in
that barely passes the 5, while frozen to the end rail. Good luck on shape too.

I'd try to hide behind the wall of balls afterwards as shown.
I think most pros would push to a jump or kick though.
Perhaps even push behind the wall of balls right off the bat?

My theory on pushes is always always always, leave distance.
Whatever you're trying to do, distance will f*ck it up and make it harder to execute.
If you're trying to shoot, distance makes it harder.
If you're trying to duck, distance makes it harder.
And being frozen to the rail makes it harder yet.

Distance and frozen to the rail are pretty much part of every push I personally do.
I think if I were a stronger jumper and kicker I'd push to those shots.
I do sometimes push to obvious kick shots... for example where a ball is inches from the short rail
and I can easily kick'n'stick to return safe.
Or when it's like 2-ball widths from the side rail, I push to a kick which is actually very makeable once
you get a good feel (or system) for the shot.

 

[Island Drive]

Free shot

Tate and I are on the same page more or less. I'd be a hair more aggressive and try to
roll so that the 10-ball partially blocked their view of the 1.

If it leaks out and they can see the whole ball... OK, good luck firing that long straight-in
that barely passes the 5, while frozen to the end rail. Good luck on shape too.

I'd try to hide behind the wall of balls afterwards as shown.
I think most pros would push to a jump or kick though.
Perhaps even push behind the wall of balls right off the bat?

My theory on pushes is always always always, leave distance.
Whatever you're trying to do, distance will f*ck it up and make it harder to execute.
If you're trying to shoot, distance makes it harder.
If you're trying to duck, distance makes it harder.
And being frozen to the rail makes it harder yet.

Distance and frozen to the rail are pretty much part of every push I personally do.
I think if I were a stronger jumper and kicker I'd push to those shots.
I do sometimes push to obvious kick shots... for example where a ball is inches from the short rail
and I can easily kick'n'stick to return safe.
Or when it's like 2-ball widths from the side rail, I push to a kick which is actually very makeable once
you get a good feel (or system) for the shot.

This is not the best choice, because of where the two ball lies allowing natural shape to the three. Its a natural pocketing roller for the one in the corner, and natural shape for the two ball to the 3 if you make the one. Most players can make sure they don't overcut the one and lay down a speed control safety utilizing the 5 ball as another possible Blocker, but if they make the one they have natural shape on the two. If you hit the one too hard and miss you opponent will still have a risky bank cross side on the one. If this happens, the bank angle is more likely to not allow a cross side bank because of where your cue ball will naturally roll too. Hope this helps.

 

[Cory in DC]

I agree except-call push first-tap whitey-and see if I get to kick.

Most people I play know I kick good-so they probably try something.

Good point, I didn't think of that. The 2-rail hit is a little more reliable if the CB is about 1-2" farther to the left. Thanks!

 

[jay helfert]

I would push to position B and play the safe diagrammed if I got the shot back.

By the way, I would be fine getting the shot back, or my opponent getting the shot. You want the cue ball to get near the rail on the push. that limits both the player's options in hiding the cue ball.

That's why you're an A player and we are all B's!

 

[itsfroze]

You have the OP layout.

Then in post # 6
A different layout.

With the one ball moved about a foot farther up table.

 

[CJ Wiley]

The key is knowing how to position the balls to force your opponent to........

Playing 10-ball, made the 6-ball on the break. 1-ball is completely blocked by the 2-ball. What is your play. Where do you push out and why?

What are some good rules of thumb about pushing out? What things determine your decision?

I would roll down and hit the 9 Ball (maybe leaving the cue ball jacked up) leaving the cue ball on the end rail. My opponent would pass the shot back to me and I'd cut the one into the four and leave the cue ball behind that wall of balls (7/8/10).....this puts the opponent into a tough "roll out" situation and is probably going to be forced to leave me a "free bank shot" on the one where I can also play a safe shot on the 2 ball.

The key is knowing how to position the balls to force your opponent to roll out to a "free shot" on the next inning. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[Black-Balled]

I agree except-call push first-tap whitey-and see if I get to kick.

Most people I play know I kick good-so they probably try something.

I don't like the tap and if you tap on me the. You are getting it back a large majority of the time.

If the shot wasn't good enough for you to jump on right away then there is something you don't like about it. I sure won't be relieving you of your concern.

And any attmpts at a Jedi mind trick will not work. I am either too dum or smart to willingly be a victim .

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I would shoot the 7 into the side-rail and leave it on the same rail as the 9. I'd also hold the cue-ball so that it's right near the 8 leaving a slice of the 1. Honestly, I just want to make sure I don't lose on the push so I'll complicate the rest of the game as much as I can.

 

[CreeDo]

This is not the best choice, because of where the two ball lies allowing natural shape to the three.

Actually, looking again you're right. I thought it would be near straight but there's plenty of angle
to miss the other balls. In that case I would want to leave them dead straight and dare them to rifle it in
and somehow cheat the pocket and dodge the other balls.

 

[TATE]

I would roll down and hit the 9 Ball (maybe leaving the cue ball jacked up) leaving the cue ball on the end rail. My opponent would pass the shot back to me and I'd cut the one into the four and leave the cue ball behind that wall of balls (7/8/10).....this puts the opponent into a tough "roll out" situation and is probably going to be forced to leave me a "free bank shot" on the one where I can also play a safe shot on the 2 ball.

The key is knowing how to position the balls to force your opponent to roll out to a "free shot" on the next inning. 'The Game is the Teacher'

There is no next roll out - this is just a push on the break I assume.

 

[TATE]

Honestly, I just want to make sure I don't lose on the push so I'll complicate the rest of the game as much as I can.

That is exactly what you want. Generally when you push, you're at a disadvantage if you are equally skilled.

If your opponent does not like the shot and does not relish the idea of giving it back to you, or if your opponent reluctantly accepts the shot, you did your job.

You want the push to demand a return that takes skill and might cause a mistake, especially if you have confidence in your ability to win a safety exchange.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I would roll down and hit the 9 Ball (maybe leaving the cue ball jacked up) leaving the cue ball on the end rail. My opponent would pass the shot back to me and I'd cut the one into the four and leave the cue ball behind that wall of balls (7/8/10).....this puts the opponent into a tough "roll out" situation and is probably going to be forced to leave me a "free bank shot" on the one where I can also play a safe shot on the 2 ball.

The key is knowing how to position the balls to force your opponent to roll out to a "free shot" on the next inning. 'The Game is the Teacher'

YOU beat me to it!!!!

I was going to type the SAME thing yesterday but I got busy at work and never got the chance. I was going to say put the cue ball on the 9-ball if I could...to cause the "jack up" or put it right on the rail next to the 9 and near the 5.

That is the FIRST thought that came to my mind from playing 2-shot many, many, many times.

Your opponent may take the shot and they have the same options you do, but you have the advantage of thinking of it FIRST and ALREADY know what you are going to do. You are hoping your opponent doesn't see the same options and passes it back to you.

Aloha.

 

[Island Drive]

YOU beat me to it!!!!

I was going to type the SAME thing yesterday but I got busy at work and never got the chance. I was going to say put the cue ball on the 9-ball if I could...to cause the "jack up" or put it right on the rail next to the 9 and near the 5.

That is the FIRST thought that came to my mind from playing 2-shot many, many, many times.

Your opponent may take the shot and they have the same options you do, but you have the advantage of thinking of it FIRST and ALREADY know what you are going to do. You are hoping your opponent doesn't see the same options and passes it back to you.

Aloha.

If I did this, my opponent would clip the right side of the one & drive it above the side pocket and put whitey behind the wall of 3 balls by the spot, then I'd be kickin'. Its a simple clip of the One ball and a simple lag of the cue ball to the long rail. Since I would be very close to the one ball I'd have very good control of the shot speed. I would Not leave that, and if you got a dbl kiss off the nine lag to the head rail, you could hook yourself easily, if you came up short you leave an easier clip shot off the one. I don't like leaving my opponent CLOSE the one ball, he can get very creative being so close.

 

[alphadog]

I don't like the tap and if you tap on me the. You are getting it back a large majority of the time.

If the shot wasn't good enough for:grin-square: you to jump on right away then there is something you don't like about it. I sure won't be relieving you of your concern.

And any attmpts at a Jedi mind trick will not work. I am either too dum or smart to willingly be a victim .

Not to be arguementive- your give it back tells me I kick better then you. You just don't
Know it.:wink:

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

That is exactly what you want. Generally when you push, you're at a disadvantage if you are equally skilled.

If your opponent does not like the shot and does not relish the idea of giving it back to you, or if your opponent reluctantly accepts the shot, you did your job.

You want the push to demand a return that takes skill and might cause a mistake, especially if you have confidence in your ability to win a safety exchange.

That's exactly the point. Pushing is either neutral or weak. It's never strong. There's no such thing as a strong push. If total failure on the push is you don't return to the table, then total success has to be defined by creating a situation where you are guaranteed to return. If you can create that issue late in the rack, you have a reasonable chance at not being hooked (fewer obstacles).

 

[CJ Wiley]

.that's the entire strategy rapped up in one sentence

Yes, the more you play 'Two Shot Shoot Out' the better understanding develops for these strategic roll outs. I can tell what level someone's at watching them roll out a few times.....it's very difficult getting this playing One Foul Rules. In "One Foul" you either try to run out or "duck/kick"....that's the entire strategy rapped up in one sentence. Of course there's a series of "ducks/kicks/moves" you have to learn, but they can all be learned in a couple of weeks.......'Two Foul' takes years to master.

'The Game is the Teacher'

YOU beat me to it!!!!

I was going to type the SAME thing yesterday but I got busy at work and never got the chance. I was going to say put the cue ball on the 9-ball if I could...to cause the "jack up" or put it right on the rail next to the 9 and near the 5.

That is the FIRST thought that came to my mind from playing 2-shot many, many, many times.

Your opponent may take the shot and they have the same options you do, but you have the advantage of thinking of it FIRST and ALREADY know what you are going to do. You are hoping your opponent doesn't see the same options and passes it back to you.

Aloha.

 

[Black-Balled]

Not to be arguementive- your give it back tells me I kick better then you. You just don't
Know it.:wink:

No argummentosity detected. Always good to hear other' thoughts.

I don't like using the push in a way that worsens my position though, which is what one does with the tap.