Players not being paid at US Open

JAM said:
Sadly, I have experienced several tournament promoters throw in the towel on what I considered first-class events: Glass City Open (Toledo, OH) and Capital City Open (Maryland and Philly). Windy City Open is another one that ceases to exist because the promoters couldn't turn a profit. Breaking even was about the best any of them could do, if they were lucky.

There are so many facets to running an even of this caliber: table rentals, table delivery and setup fees, admins staff, gate staff, tournament directors, venue room rental, room for vendors, advertising, materials for charts, trophies. And these are just the expenses I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more.

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a 1,000-foot pole if I like money. Most of these kinds of events are promoted by people who have a very deep passion for pool. Like the American pro pool player who follows a tournament trail with low payouts, never able to break even unless they come in first, second, or third, the pool tournament promoter also encounters obstacles.

Now, there are successful tournament promoters, but they have other pool ventures subsidizing the pool tournaments. Pro pool, in particular, is a losing venture for most.
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Have it in a big sports bar or nice poolroom...the tables don't need to be rented or moved...they are already there. Venue rent...green fee. No tin cups/trophies. Advertising=0 $. AZB, FB, and word of mouth. Pool players always no where and when good tournaments are coming...if the advertising on the above is put out in plenty of time. The only reason this hasn't and won't get done is pool players are too lazy to make a few calls to their contacts on thier down time...which they have a lot of. Johnnyt
 
maybe some of these guys should talk to an attorney and sue his ass ? i've seen attorneys take a lot worse cases than these.

he gets slapped with a couple of lawsuits, he'll get his shit together or he'll get out.
 
I know it's tough to win the US open, but now I know that it's tougher to get your price money. You can say anybody can win the US open but not everyone will get paid, ouch. Some not yet paid from last year? Not good if true.
 
Johnnyt said:
Where are all the Barry and Jay nut huggers this morning? Oh, they must all be late sleepers. Maybe this will wake some up. Johnnyt
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While you're blaming Jay, let's not forget to blame AZ Billiards too for advertising the tournament and publishing brackets. Oh yeah, Simonis and the Marriott too, for hosting and sponsoring it.

I realize you can't seem to get through your head Jay is just a hired hand at the Open, not a principal.

In Fact, here is Jay's exact quote from AZ:

" It's no secret I've had my personal issues with Barry over the way things were handled in past years. That said, I truly hope that he can once again make the Open the great event it used to be. With the renewed sanctioning of the WPA, he has the opportunity to bring many foreign players back on board.

Probably the fewer promises he makes about how the money is secured and subsequently paid out is a good idea, since in the past promises like this did not materialize. I hope this time we see prompt and complete payments made to ALL players, without the need for "handlers" to watch the money.

We need a successful U.S. Open in this country and it probably won't happen (at least not now) without the co-operation of Barry Behrman. He remains the only one who can make or break this event. I wish him luck in keeping his word this time. "


This is not exactly a ringing endorsement or guarantee, is it? Would you care to refute that with some actual facts, or do you want to continue to make an ass of yourself by blaming Jay for Barry's financial misdeeds?
 
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nOt likely to get anywhere...

Txstang1 said:
maybe some of these guys should talk to an attorney and sue his ass ? i've seen attorneys take a lot worse cases than these.

he gets slapped with a couple of lawsuits, he'll get his shit together or he'll get out.
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I'm sure that the US open is incorporated as an LLC. If there's no money and no assets in the LLC, a judgement from a court means precisely DICK....

You can't go after Barry's personal assets OR Qmaster's...

Jaden
 
TATE said:
While you're blaming Jay, let's not forget to blame AZ Billiards too for advertising the tournament and publishing brackets. Oh yeah, Simonis and the Marriott too, for hosting and sponsoring it.

I realize you can't seem to get through your head Jay is just a hired hand at the Open, not a principal.

In Fact, here is his exact quote from AZ:

" It's no secret I've had my personal issues with Barry over the way things were handled in past years. That said, I truly hope that he can once again make the Open the great event it used to be. With the renewed sanctioning of the WPA, he has the opportunity to bring many foreign players back on board.

Probably the fewer promises he makes about how the money is secured and subsequently paid out is a good idea, since in the past promises like this did not materialize. I hope this time we see prompt and complete payments made to ALL players, without the need for "handlers" to watch the money.

We need a successful U.S. Open in this country and it probably won't happen (at least not now) without the co-operation of Barry Behrman. He remains the only one who can make or break this event. I wish him luck in keeping his word this time. "


This is not exactly a ringing endorsement or guarantee, is it? Would you care to refute that with some actual facts, or do you want to continue to make an ass of yourself by blaming Jay for Barry's financial misdeeds?
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This is not the thread I was talking about. The tread I'm talking about is the one where he says he's the TD this year and all should be fine...or something like that. There are so many threads about the Open I can't find it. But I will if you keep it up. Johnnyt
 
Jaden said:
I'm sure that the US open is incorporated as an LLC. If there's no money and no assets in the LLC, a judgement from a court means precisely DICK....

You can't go after Barry's personal assets OR Qmaster's...

Jaden
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unfortunately , you're probably right
 
Johnnyt said:
This is not the thread I was talking about. The tread I'm talking about is the one where he says he's the TD this year and all should be fine...or something like that. There are so many threads about the Open I can't find it. But I will if you keep it up. Johnnyt
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Johnny,

He has no involvement in the finances. Jay was called by Barry in June to act as the tournament director. He was sweet talked back into it after resigning due to poor treatment. He gets expenses and a very small stipend for this and only does it to be around the pro pool scene, not for the money.

I am sure Jay feels horrible this is embarrassingly happening again, but he has no control over it. Having Jay there is about the best thing the pro players could have because he's on their side. However, anybody who thinks Barry is "good for it" is downright stupid - I mean flat dumb. I would not trust him for a red cent. In fact, I would say the only reason Barry pays anyone at all is to get them to come back again the next year.


Chris---------------------------->Waiting for the 100% non-payment bomb that will fall when this thing doesn't have a next year.
 
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TATE said:
Johnny,

He has no involvement in the finances. Jay was called by Barry in June to act as the tournament director. He was sweet talked back into it after resigning due to poor treatment. He gets expenses and a very small stipend for this and only does it to be around the pro pool scene, not for the money.

I am sure Jay feels horrible this is embarrassingly happening again. However, anybody who thinks Barry is "good for it" is downright stupid - I mean flat dumb. I would not trust him for a red cent. In fact, I would say the only reason Barry pays anyone at all is to get them to come back again the next year.


Chris---------------------------->Waiting for the 100% non-payment bomb that will fall when this thing doesn't have a next year.
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Keith said if Jay was smart, he would have asked to be paid up front before he left California. Of course, Jay getting paid ain't none of our business. That's between him and Barry.

The players, however, not getting paid is our business. Did Barry take out $50 from the entry fees to go to the WPA sanctioning fee? I'm curious where that money came from. If he did, then the WPA needs to give it back to the players.
 
JAM said:
Sadly, I have experienced several tournament promoters throw in the towel on what I considered first-class events: Glass City Open (Toledo, OH) and Capital City Open (Maryland and Philly). Windy City Open is another one that ceases to exist because the promoters couldn't turn a profit. Breaking even was about the best any of them could do, if they were lucky.

There are so many facets to running an even of this caliber: table rentals, table delivery and setup fees, admins staff, gate staff, tournament directors, venue room rental, room for vendors, advertising, materials for charts, trophies. And these are just the expenses I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more.

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a 1,000-foot pole if I like money. Most of these kinds of events are promoted by people who have a very deep passion for pool. Like the American pro pool player who follows a tournament trail with low payouts, never able to break even unless they come in first, second, or third, the pool tournament promoter also encounters obstacles.

Now, there are successful tournament promoters, but they have other pool ventures subsidizing the pool tournaments. Pro pool, in particular, is a losing venture for most.
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It's not a business I'd go in for the next 12 years minimum but the name US Open 9 Ball Championship" or whatever the exact name is does have some value to the right person currently imho. Maybe only 3 orgs possibly interested to some degree now i'd think. Barry could sit on it some too for a while I'd guess. All hypothetical.

Just read about the alleged 'Escrow' account with Suntrust that Barry said would be in place with all the added money and the entries as they came. Trust me folks if you dont have a lawyer on your side of the fence, you are not a part of any escrow. 170 IQ+ Geniuses excepted.
 
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JAM said:
Keith said if Jay was smart, he would have asked to be paid up front before he left California. Of course, Jay getting paid ain't none of our business. That's between him and Barry.

The players, however, not getting paid is our business. Did Barry take out $50 from the entry fees to go to the WPA sanctioning fee? I'm curious where that money came from. If he did, then the WPA needs to give it back to the players.
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Our discussion was not about Jay getting paid. Johnny was saying Jay was partly to blame for the players not getting paid, because he was associated with the event as tournament director and lent his status to the event. Jay did make comments that he "hoped" it would all be paid on time this time.


I would personally not be associated with anything run by Barry. The fallout is too great, even though it is still possible that some or all of the payments will clear in a few weeks.

This is honestly the sin of all businesses that are run paycheck to paycheck. Without strong cashflow, reliable credit, or working capital, it's impossible to properly run a business.
 
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TATE said:
Our discussion was not about Jay getting paid. Johnny was saying Jay was partly to blame for the players not getting paid, because he was associated with the event as tournament director and lent his status to the event. Jay did make comments that he "hoped" it would all be paid on time this time.


I would personally not be associated with anything run by Barry. The fallout is too great, even though it is still possible that some or all of the payments will clear in a few weeks.

This is honestly the sin of all businesses that are run paycheck to paycheck. Without strong cashflow, reliable credit, or working capital, it's impossible to properly run a business.
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I did not mean that you implied anything untoward about Jay. I was only stating with Keith's thoughts were, and you're right, it has nothing to do with your post. I should not have highlighted your words. Sorry. :sorry:

I think it is only normal for any of us who read this forum on a regular basis, knowing the history of this tournament, to wonder what those on site are thinking today, the morning after.

What a shame that the majority of the threads are about players not getting paid instead of Shane Van Boening's great win. There are some good Shane threads, though. It is just that this Open debacle is casting a black cloud over what should be a joyful occasion.
 
TATE said:
Our discussion was not about Jay getting paid. Johnny was saying Jay was partly to blame for the players not getting paid, because he was associated with the event as tournament director and lent his status to the event. Jay did make comments that he "hoped" it would all be paid on time this time.


I would personally not be associated with anything run by Barry. The fallout is too great, even though it is still possible that some or all of the payments will clear in a few weeks.

This is honestly the sin of all businesses that are run paycheck to paycheck. Without strong cashflow, reliable credit, or working capital, it's impossible to properly run a business.
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How after all this time is he not 'one year ahead'? I don't know but one thing fore sure- he better damn soon quit drinking and wake the F#ck up or it's going to get sadder.
 
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