Mosconi cup 2015 2016

Jaden said:
Any time you have one man that is calling the shots without any standard set for the decision making process, that allows said person to change his mind at will, it invokes the good ole boy network mentality.

You have to be a part of HIS good ole boy network or you're out, or at least the potential for that to be the case is there.

JAden
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I've seen several people mention this "problem" of not having "known" standards to pick a (final) team from. And while I personally don't have any issues with the question(s) being raised, in theory, what would these standards/criteria be?

And, what possible requirement or standard could you impose on the players that would weed out great players who excel everywhere but the Mosconi cup environment?

Does the past predict the future or vice versa
 
Mr. Bond said:
I've seen several people mention this "problem" of not having "known" standards to pick a (final) team from. And while I personally don't have any issues with the question(s) being raised, in theory, what would these standards/criteria be?

And, what possible requirement or standard could you impose on the players that would weed out great players who excel everywhere but the Mosconi cup environment?

Does the past predict the future or vice versa
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The European system is a meritocracy and the criteria for making the team were announced in the winter by Johan. If memory serves, top ranked Eurotour player Mark Gray and top WPA ranked player Niels Feijen were assured spots based on competitive performance, and Ekonomopoulos locked up his spot when he came third at the US Open. Appleton and Boyes got wild cards, I suspect due to their impressive win at the World Cup of Pool. Everybody who got a spot on the 2014 Team Europe earned it through competitive excellence in 2014.

Your second and third questions are not questions of any import, and certainly not questions of any relevance to the European system, a system that has been working for many years now. If you are asking how anybody would have known that Shane would go winless in singles in consecutive Mosconi Cups, I say it's trivial. We need to send our best and even though Shane has a bad history in the Mosconi, his competitive credentials away from the Mosconi say he must be on the team.

The European system ensures the participation of players in form, the US selection system this year did not. Europeans knew what they had to do and in which events they'd have to participate in to earn their way onto the team, Americans did not.

As an example, an American coach could announce that he'd pick his top three based on performance at Derby City 9-ball, Super Billiards Expo, Turning Stone, Steinway and the US Open. After that, he'd pick two wild cards, also performance based. That would have made our system more comparable to the European system.

As long as the European system is a meritocracy and ours is not, we can expect to be less ready for battle than them every single year.
 
sjm said:
....As long as the European system is a meritocracy and ours is not, we can expect to be less ready for battle than them every single year.
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well put.

i will add, that this is assuming it's the criteria for US from Matchroom.
 
I agree 100% Stu.
And I will add more:-it is not fair to not go by Ranking.
I think Wilson is a good coach, but he should not have the authority to pick the whole team.Not him,not any other coach.
Rankings and tournaments throught the year, not only in the US,but from overseas as well, should determine at least 3 of the 5 team members, just like the European system
 
I don't think it's fair to say Mark Wilson's choices weren't meritocratic. They weren't a mechanical choice based on a points system - but even the Euro team was 2/5 wildcard. SVB, Bergman, and Deuel were, according to the AZB money charts, the top 3 American players this year. Schmidt and Hall were his wild cards, if you want to look at it like that.

But more to the point, he said he based his choices on factors including teamwork, which every team coach uses to pick players, and which are just as meritocratic, but don't have points associated with them.

Maybe some day there will be a bona fide American pro tour that the Mosconi team could be based on...
 
Marc said:
I agree 100% Stu.
And I will add more:-it is not fair to not go by Ranking.
I think Wilson is a good coach, but he should not have the authority to pick the whole team.Not him,not any other coach.
Rankings and tournaments throught the year, not only in the US,but from overseas as well, should determine at least 3 of the 5 team members, just like the European system
Click to expand...

Mark should choose the team as he sees fit. I was responding to Mr Bond's suggestion that no system could be easily devised to choose the team on competitive performance. Europe manages to devise such a system every year. We could, too, but it's Mark's call.

Finally, remember that there is no ranking system, one would have to be devised. To do so, for Mosconi qualification purposes only, would be an easy task indeed.
 
Mosconi cup

Sjm;

When the BCA let the BCA points events disappear, the US basically lost their ranking events platform

Before anyone panics, that can be rectified.

But if has to be a better system than before.....

Stay tuned

Mark Griffin
 
Mark Griffin said:
Sjm;

When the BCA let the BCA points events disappear, the US basically lost their ranking events platform

Before anyone panics, that can be rectified.

But if has to be a better system than before.....

Stay tuned

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

Will do, my friend. Would be nice to see this fixed.
 
I've stayed out of most of these MC threads.

I just wanted to add a positive vote for what Mark did, now that the event is over. I would not have changed a SINGLE thing if he had to do it all over again.

He did a great job forming the original 8, keeping them as a team, making the final 5 selection, and keeping the event professional.

If I were he, I would actually pick the EXACT 5 players again for next year. These guys gelled really well.

Its unfortunate, but the US only has 1 (Shane) world class player today. In the 2000's the US had mabye 10. And in the 1990's, maybe 20.

After Shane, the skill level of our remaining players is almost a pick-em. Mark picked them, based on his "unpublished" personal system. Whatever his criteria was, it produced a fine team, that was nothing but professional, and supportive of each other.

Great job to Mark and the team.
 
I already illuded to a possible criteria in my post...

Mr. Bond said:
I've seen several people mention this "problem" of not having "known" standards to pick a (final) team from. And while I personally don't have any issues with the question(s) being raised, in theory, what would these standards/criteria be?

And, what possible requirement or standard could you impose on the players that would weed out great players who excel everywhere but the Mosconi cup environment?

Does the past predict the future or vice versa
Click to expand...

Have a set group of events in the year that all players must compete in. Preferably events that will contain a contingent of the players that usually end up competing for team Europe.

Then have a round robin from the 8 selected players where each of the players play each other and team up with all of the other 7 players.

Have a overall ratings system with points assigned to the high finishes in the prescribed events, and points assigned for winning matches in the round robin.

Assign say 45% of the determining points to the tournaments, 45% of determining points to the round robin and 10% captain discretion.

Those percentages could be tweaked too. The group portion of the round robin could give a good idea of which pairings illicit the best cohesion and could help to influence the points that are team captain discretion.

That's the way I would do it.

Jaden
 
Schmidt was a terrible choice. He dragged down other team members with his sarcasm and negativity.

All this talk about projecting the proper image. After day 2 all l I saw out of the Americans was fear and doubt. They wilted. I'd rather them get angry and show some heart.
 
Jaden said:
Any time you have one man that is calling the shots without any standard set for the decision making process, that allows said person to change his mind at will, it invokes the good ole boy network mentality.

You have to be a part of HIS good ole boy network or you're out, or at least the potential for that to be the case is there.

JAden
Click to expand...


That's absurd.

If I am in charge of a team -- sports, work, or otherwise -- and I have to hire someone, there are all sorts of things I'll be considering. Sure, you look at their resume, but then you also look at how they interview, how they handle themselves, and how they will fit in with other team members. There is nothing "good ole boy" about any of that.

No one who has ever hired people is going to say I only looked at A, B, and C because there are always intangibles that different candidate bring with them that are also considered. Sometimes you just know someone is a good fit and will make the team as a whole better.

Lou Figueroa
 
hahaha...lol...

lfigueroa said:
That's absurd.

If I am in charge of a team -- sports, work, or otherwise -- and I have to hire someone, there are all sorts of things I'll be considering. Sure, you look at their resume, but then you also look at how they interview, how they handle themselves, and how they will fit in with other team members. There is nothing "good ole boy" about any of that.

No one who has ever hired people is going to say I only looked at A, B, and C because there are always intangibles that different candidate bring with them that are also considered. Sometimes you just know someone is a good fit and will make the team as a whole better.

Lou Figueroa
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If you think for one second that many job hirings aren't based on who you know or who's ass you kissed, then you live in fantasy land.

Jaden
 
pro9dg said:
For those anti Wilson posters on here, prepare yourself for more of your self imposed misery.

Mark will carry on his mission to improve the reputation of pool and
his quest to bring the Mosconi Cup into US hands.

I think that right now there are five pair of hands that clutch on to
the Cup handles. These fingers could be prised off as players
get invited to join the MC Squad where they can try to stake a claim
for a team spot.

But like before, players will have to subscribe to Mark’s ethical team
philosophy. I think that this will mean that you will not see the return
of many former Mosconi players.

Shane will be able to defend his position and with another 12 months
of competition Justins Hall and Bergman should be able to capitalise
on this week’s experience.

But Mike Dechaine will surely have proved that he understands the
requirements and standards that Mark is seeking.

Skyler Woodward will need to continue to build on his 2014 successes
and could be a contender and other young guns like Chip Compton
and Joey Gray should be getting a chance to shine.

America has plenty of rising stars who can become tomorrow’s heroes
and I believe that is the path that Mark Wilson will follow over the next
few years. His final two public appearances before they embarked for
Blackpool shows just what a positive reaction that his team received.

This year’s team were treated like Rock Stars at the after match
celebrations and they could see a vision of the future when it was
almost mass hysteria with fans wanting to be pictured with World
Champion Niels Feijen.

The 2014 US Mosconi team were only a handful of balls behind the
Europeans but they were critical in settling games.

Another factor that worked against them was that over recent weeks
all the European players had competed under similar conditions at The
World Cup of Pool and the World Pool Masters.

Only Shane from the US team had this priveledge.

Matchroom are satisfied with the investment in Mark Wilson and are
prepared to give him time to develop his plan. It is also gratifying that
most of the more knowledgable posters on this forum are
supporting him.

One thing is for sure – Mark will do it his way.
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IMO, US team could use a six or 10 month camp practicing on snooker table, using small pool balls. This will diffidently improve their potting skill, improve stance, aiming..etc and adds a bit discipline to treat each and every shot with care; not just go down and shoot with sloppy stroke, and extra long forward and back swing,for shots that only needs a 2 inches stroke. Could be the only way to beat the already disciplined Europe who knows. GO USA.
 
Jaden said:
If you think for one second that many job hirings aren't based on who you know or who's ass you kissed, then you live in fantasy land.

Jaden
Click to expand...


I know that very well. BUT I've known MW for over 15 years. He doesn't operate that way and making the assumption he does, with zero evidence, is uncalled for. Unless you have some kind of proof, rather than just your speculation, I believe you could try giving the man the benefit of the doubt based upon what those that do know him have to say.

Lou Figueroa
 
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